To be Justified by Faith is to be Justified by Christ

[Robert Pate]

"Come let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sin be as scarlet thet can be white as snow." Isaiah 1:18.

How can that be Isaiah? How can our sins be as white as snow?

All through the Old Testament and into the New Testament man remains a fallen sinner. Try as he may to overcome his fallen nature his sin remains. Paul said... "The good that I would do, I don't do it, instead I do the evil" Romans 7:19. Paul struggled with sin just like we do.

If sinful man is to be saved, salvation must come to him totally and completely outside of himself. It has in the person of Jesus Christ. God is not the minister of sin as some Catholics would have you believe. God is holy and righteous beyond human comprehension. He can and must judge sin where ever he finds it. Our only hope for salvation is to be found "In Christ".

This is why Paul wrote, "To declare, I say, at this time HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS: that he might be just and the justifier of him that believes in Jesus" Romans 3:26.

The only righteousness that God is going to accept in the judgment is the righteousness of Christ. Everything else will be assigned to hell. If you are counting on what you are or what you have become to save you, or your good works, piety or religion you are lost.

"But to him that does no works, but believes on him (Jesus) that justifies the ungodly (us) his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

And all of the Catholics said... Oh no!

God counts faith for righteousness. I didn't say that. The Bible says that. "Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" Romans 4:3. And who's righteousness is it that is counted for righteousness? It is the righteousness of Christ. God places the righteousness of Christ to our account when we believe in Jesus. We don't have it yet, it is to our account. it is reserved for us in heaven, 1 Peter 1:4.

We are justified by faith because we are justified by Christ. Christ is our justifier, Romans 3:26. Sinners cannot justify themselves by their works. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners. I hope that you don't have to find that out in the judgment. If you stand before a holy God in the judgment in your own righteousness you will dissappear in a puff of smoke. God only accepts the work, obedience and the righteousness of Christ.

Jesus justifies us by doing for us that which we cannot do for our selves. In our name and on our behalf he offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience to his Holy Law. It is his life that was lived for our justification, Romans 3:26. He atones for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus we can now stand before God as justified. No one needs to be predestinated. No one needs to join the Catholic church. God now offers this salvation to everyone as a free gift. We receive the free gift when we receive Christ as our savior, John 1:12.

 

[Ben Masada]

So, to be justified by faith is to be justified by Christ!

So, to be justified by faith is to be justified by Christ!

Well, in that case, to be justified by Christ is to miss the chance to repent and be saved. What then to do with the method of Isaiah to set things right with the Lord so that our sins from scarlet red become as white as snow when we have Jeremiah and Ezekiel buzzing in our ears that no one can die for the sins of another? (Jer. 31:30; Ezek. 18:20) I think we are better off listening to the Prophets of the Most High than to Paul who did not know what he was talking about.

 

[Robert Pate]

Well, in that case, to be justified by Christ is to miss the chance to repent and be saved. What then to do with the method of Isaiah to set things right with the Lord so that our sins from scarlet red become as white as snow when we have Jeremiah and Ezekiel buzzing in our ears that no one can die for the sins of another? (Jer. 31:30; Ezek. 18:20) I think we are better off listening to the Prophets of the Most High than to Paul who did not know what he was talking about.

Hell is waiting for you.

 

[Bradley D]

"Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?" (James 2:21)

I believe Paul throughout his epistles was empathizing that works alone cannot get one to heaven. That is true. Only belief in Christ and His sacrifice can do that. However, James tells me that the faith that saved me, my life should reflect what my faith in Christ did for me.

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" (James 2:25).

 

[jamie]

Noah had faith and walked with God, but God didn't build the ark for him.

 

[jamie]

Hell is waiting for you.

Is that what it says in John 3:16?

 

[Robert Pate]

"Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?" (James 2:21)

I believe Paul throughout his epistles was empathizing that works alone cannot get one to heaven. That is true. Only belief in Christ and His sacrifice can do that. However, James tells me that the faith that saved me, my life should reflect what my faith in Christ did for me.

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" (James 2:25).

The Gospel calls for a responce. One cannot just say that they believe and not repent. I think that this is what James was saying. If there is no repentance there may not be any faith.

 

[Robert Pate]

Is that what it says in John 3:16?

All who reject the saving work of Christ are under the wrath of God.

 

[jamie]

All who reject the saving work of Christ are under the wrath of God.

All who reject Jesus Christ will be judged by his words at the Last Day.

He who rejects Me and does not receive My words has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. (John 12:48 NKJV)​

 

[Right Divider]

"Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?" (James 2:21)

I believe Paul throughout his epistles was empathizing that works alone cannot get one to heaven. That is true. Only belief in Christ and His sacrifice can do that. However, James tells me that the faith that saved me, my life should reflect what my faith in Christ did for me.

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" (James 2:25).

Did you ever noticed how James starts his epistle?

Jas 1:1 KJV James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
​

James was one of those that lived under the law and that is exactly what he preached.

You can't have it both ways. James says keep the law. Paul says that we are not under the law.

James preached Abraham's obedience AFTER his circumcision.
Paul preached Abraham's faith BEFORE his circumcision.

Rom 4:9-13 KJV Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. (10) How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. (11) And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: (12) And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. (13) For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.​

During the dispensation of the grace of God, works have no saving value whatsoever. Works come after salvation, just like Paul says:

Eph 2:8-10 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. (10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.​

 

[Ben Masada]

"Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?" (James 2:21)

I believe Paul throughout his epistles was empathizing that works alone cannot get one to heaven. That is true. Only belief in Christ and His sacrifice can do that. However, James tells me that the faith that saved me, my life should reflect what my faith in Christ did for me.

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" (James 2:25).

He didn't. Abraham did not offer his son Isaac on the altar. It was only a binding of Isaac on the altar. Hence the name "Akkedah", the binding of Isaac and, mind you it all happened in a dream.

The Lord's Catch-22

According to a certain midrash reported by Thomas Mann in his book "Joseph and his Brothers," after a while that Abraham had arrived in Canaan, from his country and folks in Ur of the Chaldeans, he was deeply impressed about the deep love with which the Canaanites would love their gods as to offer their firstborn son in a burn sacrifice. Abraham would go frustrate to think that he could not express his love for Elohim in such a dramatic way.

As Abraham would try to chew that paradox in his mind, he fell asleep and had a dream. Elohim would identify Himself thus: I am Molech, bull-king of the baalites and command you to bring your firstborn son Isaac and offer him in a burn sacrifice to Me. As Abraham set about to do so, the Lord said, "How dare you! Am I Molech bull-king of the baalites? I expected you to know much better. What I have commanded, I did not command so that you would do it, but that you might learn that you should not do it; because it is nothing but an abomination in My sight, instead; and don't confuse the practices of the Gentiles with the People you are to sire. Behold a ram; offer it instead.

 

[Ben Masada]

"Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?" (James 2:21)

I believe Paul throughout his epistles was empathizing that works alone cannot get one to heaven. That is true. Only belief in Christ and His sacrifice can do that. However, James tells me that the faith that saved me, my life should reflect what my faith in Christ did for me.

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" (James 2:25).

I understand that, according to what you say above, "ONLY belief in Christ and his sacrifice can get us saved." If that's so, what about repentance? We don't need to repent to be saved? If that's so, you are implying that Prophet Isaiah was lying when he said that the only way to get things right with the Lord so that our sins, from scarlet red become as white as snow, we must repent to be saved.(Isa. 1:18,19)

Now, even if you change your mind and add repentance to belief in Christ alone, what about the Prophets Jeremiah and Ezekiel who both declared that no one can die for the sins of another? (Jer. 31:30 and Ezek. 18:20)

BTW, your quote of James 2:25 says nothing about ONLY belief in Christ and his sacrifice can get us saved. James was a Jew and I doubt that he was the author of that message.

 

[Ben Masada]

Hell is waiting for you.

For us all if you, for once in your lifetime don't mind listening to the Truth of God's Word. (Eccles. 12:7)

 

[Right Divider]

For us all if you, for once in your lifetime don't mind listening to the Truth of God's Word. (Eccles. 12:7)

So you really think the he book of Ecclesiastes is where you find your doctrine about these things?

I don't think you have the slightest idea about the books of scripture.

 

[Robert Pate]

Did you ever noticed how James starts his epistle?

Jas 1:1 KJV James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
​

James was one of those that lived under the law and that is exactly what he preached.

You can't have it both ways. James says keep the law. Paul says that we are not under the law.

James preached Abraham's obedience AFTER his circumcision.
Paul preached Abraham's faith BEFORE his circumcision.

Rom 4:9-13 KJV Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. (10) How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. (11) And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: (12) And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. (13) For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.​

During the dispensation of the grace of God, works have no saving value whatsoever. Works come after salvation, just like Paul says:

Eph 2:8-10 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. (10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.​

Right. James was a Judaizer. There were many Judaizers in the early church.

A Judaizer is one that believes in Jesus but also believes that you must keep the law of Moses, Acts 15:21.

I am sure that James came into a full understand of the Gospel and justification by faith at a later date.

 

[Right Divider]

Right. James was a Judaizer. There were many Judaizers in the early church.

A Judaizer is one that believes in Jesus but also believes that you must keep the law of Moses, Acts 15:21.

I am sure that James came into a full understand of the Gospel and justification by faith at a later date.

This is ALL totally speculative on your part.

James was a Jew under the law, just like Jesus and the twelve.

When the disciples were scattered, they keep teaching Jews only.

Act 11:19-21 KJV Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only. (20) And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the Lord Jesus. (21) And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord.
​

We never see anything negative said about this in the scripture.

Later, in Acts 21, Paul meets with James in Jerusalem and James boasts about so many 'zealous of the law".

Act 21:17-21 KJV And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. (18) And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. (19) And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. (20) And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: (21) And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
​

Once again, we see no condemnation of this from Paul or any other scripture.

James even reiterates the agreement that they made in Acts 15:

Act 21:25 KJV As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
​

The believing Jews were still under the law, but due to Israel's fall as a whole... God raised Paul and gave to him the dispensation of the grace of God. This is what he taught the Gentiles that never had the law.

 

[Robert Pate]

This is ALL totally speculative on your part.

James was a Jew under the law, just like Jesus and the twelve.

When the disciples were scattered, they keep teaching Jews only.

Act 11:19-21 KJV Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only. (20) And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the Lord Jesus. (21) And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord.
​

We never see anything negative said about this in the scripture.

Later, in Acts 21, Paul meets with James in Jerusalem and James boasts about so many 'zealous of the law".

Act 21:17-21 KJV And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. (18) And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. (19) And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. (20) And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: (21) And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
​

Once again, we see no condemnation of this from Paul or any other scripture.

James even reiterates the agreement that they made in Acts 15:

Act 21:25 KJV As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
​

The believing Jews were still under the law, but due to Israel's fall as a whole... God raised Paul and gave to him the dispensation of the grace of God. This is what he taught the Gentiles that never had the law.

James sent men to spy on Peter and Barnabas to see if they were eating with Gentiles. A Jewish violation of the law of Moses, Galatians 2:12.

When Peter and Barnabas saw them coming they went under the table.

Paul got very upset and read them all the riot act, Galatians 2:14-21.

Later on Paul wanted to introduce some Gentile believers to the church in Jerusalem. James was the head of the church in Jerusalem.

James said, wait just a minute Paul, we are going to have to circumcise these Gentiles first, after the law of Moses. Acts 15:1.

Well that started quite a stink, Acts 15:2-21.

James finally agreed to allow them to come into the church after some disputation. But he was not about to let the off complete, he laid more law on them after it was over, Acts 15:20, 21.

To be under the law is to be under condemnation, Romans 8:1.

 

[Right Divider]

James sent men to spy on Peter and Barnabas to see if they were eating with Gentiles. A Jewish violation of the law of Moses, Galatians 2:12.

There is some truth, but mostly error in this post RP.

As some have said before on TOL, the Bible is a book of DETAILS.

It does NOT say that James sent spies.

Gal 2:4-5 KJV And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: (5) To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
​

When Peter and Barnabas saw them coming they went under the table.

Paul got very upset and read them all the riot act, Galatians 2:14-21.

Later on Paul wanted to introduce some Gentile believers to the church in Jerusalem. James was the head of the church in Jerusalem.

Fast and loose.... You make things up as you go along.

Where does it say that Paul wanted to do this?

Those things were going on in ANTIOCH.

James said, wait just a minute Paul, we are going to have to circumcise these Gentiles first, after the law of Moses. Acts 15:1.

Well that started quite a stink, Acts 15:2-21.

You have a problem keeping facts straight.

Act 15:1-2 KJV And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. (2) When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
​

It does NOT say that James said this. Your little lies make you look bad.

This is JAMES speaking (through a letter):

Act 15:23-25 KJV And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia: (24) Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: (25) It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
​

So James makes it clear that these instructions of the false brethren did NOT come from James.

The EXACT opposite of what YOU say.

James finally agreed to allow them to come into the church after some disputation. But he was not about to let the off complete, he laid more law on them after it was over, Acts 15:20, 21.

Hogwash. Paul was NOT trying to bring Gentiles into the church as Jerusalem. Paul planted churches all over and the one where the dispute was was in ANTIOCH, which is not even in Israel.

To be under the law is to be under condemnation, Romans 8:1.

Yes, this is what Paul declares in the dispensation of the grace of God.

 

[Robert Pate]

There is some truth, but mostly error in this post RP.

As some have said before on TOL, the Bible is a book of DETAILS.

It does NOT say that James sent spies.

Gal 2:4-5 KJV And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: (5) To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
​

Fast and loose.... You make things up as you go along.

Where does it say that Paul wanted to do this?

Those things were going on in ANTIOCH.


You have a problem keeping facts straight.

Act 15:1-2 KJV And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. (2) When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
​

It does NOT say that James said this. Your little lies make you look bad.

This is JAMES speaking (through a letter):

Act 15:23-25 KJV And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia: (24) Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: (25) It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
​

So James makes it clear that these instructions of the false brethren did NOT come from James.

The EXACT opposite of what YOU say.


Hogwash. Paul was NOT trying to bring Gentiles into the church as Jerusalem. Paul planted churches all over and the one where the dispute was was in ANTIOCH, which is not even in Israel.


Yes, this is what Paul declares in the dispensation of the grace of God.

The fact remains, James was a Judaizer.

You are in denial of the facts.

 

[Right Divider]

The fact remains, James was a Judaizer.

You are in denial of the facts.

WOW. You're shown to be a fudger at best and a liar at worst and THAT is all that you have to say.

Robert, you just another religious zealous willing to lie to make scripture fit your story instead of letting scripture TELL the story.

You should be ashamed of yourself.