ECT TLO comes to TOL

Lazy afternoon

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Corrie ten Boom participated in the great Osborn crusade at the Maleveld Holland in 1960.

Did the powers which cause men to fall over follow Corrie ten Boom?

First find out where K Kulman put the wheel chair bound at her meetings.

There is a link between the Pentecostal movement and lying signs and wonders, which their preachers seek after.

Yes it is all a bit mixed but read Jesse Pen Lewis and the Wesley brothers on it.

Also Watchman Nee in his book banned by pentcostals about powers of the soul.

Then get into Nader Mikhaiel's research book called "the Toronto Blessing and Slaying in the Spirit the telling wonder".

The best book in the world on the subject.

LA
 

Totton Linnet

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If you want to start a thread on any of these matters feel free to do so LA

I have never "swooned" although I understand the Wesley brothers did.
 

Krsto

Well-known member
the reason the blind do not cry out to Him as did Blind Bartimeus is because the CHURCH has taught them not to.

:first:

Thanks Tot for the Osborn tape. I've been to Gypsy villages on ministry in Bulgaria. They are precious people full of faith. TL preaches a sermon lifting their faith, they believe, they get healed. Don't know why so many have a hard time with this.
 

Totton Linnet

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I am glad you were blest, TLO is simplicity itself in his ministry, whole nations in Africa have been stirred by his ministry...I have met African missionaries come to Britain to save what they consider the Motherland, they speak of T. L. with awe.
 

moonbeam

Member
Banned
Quite amazing


Americans are so different from Brits

Totton Linnet

I was watching this video of Kathryn Kuhlman and was struck by something, namely, her interest in the denomination of one of the persons who had claimed to be healed and came to the stage. This caused me to examine the inter-action revolving around the entire episode in some detail...I probably would have missed it except for the fact that I have watched a video of this woman on you tube the other night after watching some of the videos posted on your blog.

I watched some of the Joseph Prince videos and in the search there was a video of Kathryn Kuhlman speaking to a audience. She was about the same age as in this clip you posted. She was an impressive orator, flamboyant, yet in an elegant feminine fashion, thoughtful in her presentation in the sense that she allowed time to be her friend with pauses and elongated phrasing combined with elegant, though forceful gestures, a strong and steady gaze, self assured to a high degree, and stateing so publicly...all together engaging, I found. I listened on that occasion for about 30 minutes, observing casually, internally no spikes were registered. Than I watched a couple of bits and pieces from some other videos, studio based, and I detected a certain plasticity in her performance and a woodeness to her tone and articulation...that cause be a little concern...she is at her best with a live audience, so I thought, like many bands who prefer live gigs because of the pulse of energy exchange with the live audience, rather than the stale and sterile studio or tv show.

However...what I have discovered in 3 minutes on this video you have posted has dramaticlly changed my perspective and opinion.

Totton Linnet I will lay out what I have noted in the three minute segment (in cronological order ie min and sec) below for your, and other interested parties, close examination and consideration...these things are of concern.

4.50 - woman comes to stage after being healed of artheritis

5.20 - KK says - "Where do you go to church"

The woman responds - some place "in Texas" - note that the question was meant to be met by information not only of location...but denomination...this will be verified in a further enquiry very shortly, the reason being that KK needs the denomination, not the location, which will be revealed as you watch further.

5.25 - KK says - "What church"

The woman replies - "Presbyterian" note - KK needed the denomination which the woman failed to give with the first enquiry [deliberately or forgetfully ? ] this reqired a direct question from KK because her game is to discredit the Doctrines of that church along with the denomination by showing that it is spiritually dead (supposedly)...KK will mention the "Presbyterian" church 4 times in less than three minutes, and each time with emphasis.

5.48 - The woman states - "both my husband and myself are Elders"

This shows that church is in violation of scripture, as the office of Elder can not be held by a woman, a woman has no authority over men in the church of God...this is usful for KK as another one of her games is to destroy the authority structure put in place by the Holy Spirit...Man is the head, and woman have no authority to teach men in the formal structure of a church

5.51 - KK says - she makes the point again of highlighting the fact that they are from the Presbyterian church.

6.12 - KK says - Once again emphazeing the Presbyterian church and the fact that the woman and the man are both Elders.

Continues to attack the doctrines of the church along with the denomination also reiterates that the woman is an Elder along with her husband...another attack on the authority of the male in the structure of the formal church and in the home....remember KK cuts quite a figure of feminine power and authority and assertivness with feminine elegance

6.17 - KK says - asks the husband "did you expect this" the husband says quietly "no I didn't"...KK says strongly pulling him to the mike "confess, confess"

This once again plays the game of diminishing the male as weak in faith...implicitly suggesting that it was the womans faith and intuition and sensitiveness to the things of the Spirit, which is the only reason they came, which will be revealed latter as the distance of 600 miles, again strengthening the qualities of the woman, such as empathy, sensitiveness to the things of the Spirit...eroding the authority of the male which is God instituted

6.23 - KK says - asks the husband who is an "Elder" what has he got to say in regards to the apparent healing...He says "I don't know what to say ?"

The benifit here for KK is that the male Elder is seen to be weak and spiritually insensitive even blind to the things of the Spirit...this again erodes away at the biblical injunction that the male has authority over the female in the formal structure of the church...it also highlights the conduit KK

6.38 - There is a bit of chit chat here revealing that the two Elders have travelled 600 miles one way to attend this meeting.

Thus it is imlicitly implied that it was at the wifes insistence...this reinforcing the dynamic of the deadness and insensitivety of the male in contrast to the intuitive and empathetic female who is more in tune with etheral matters...continuing the theme of eroding male headship in the church.

6.39 - KK says - "Dear Jesus along with this wonderfull healing" .. The woman swoons under and begins to fall backwards as KK holds her face gently with both hands...then steps away and says with emphasis "Down goes a Presbyterian"

This is now the 4th time in the space of 2 minutes that KK has chosen to highlight the fact that these Elders are from the Presbyterian church...once again corrosive inuendo is used to disparage the doctrines of grace taught by the Presbyterian church with the implicit suggestion that the church is dead and as dead as male headship

6.53 - KK says - "What if the rest of the members of that church could see her now, it will never be the same"

Here KK states explicitly her implicit intent...to effect the Presbyterian church...by suggesting it is spiritually dead and the doctrines of grace with it...that male headship should be usurped...and that the intuitive and empathetic qualities of woman are a more reliable conduit inregards the things of the Spirit.

7.07 - KK suggests that the woman should take a walk down the stage to demonstrate her healing...so she begins to walk carrying her handbag in her right hand...she takes about 8 steps but she realizes before she gets to the end that she has the handbag in her right hand which is the wrong hand...Why ?...because when she turns the bag will be on the wrong side for the attendants...so as she turns at the end of the cat walk like a well trained model...she swaps her handbag into the other hand...Why? becomes apparent...as she takes the first couple of steps heading back towards KK...KK says with firm voice "Hold her purse, You men are so helpless sometimes"...now we see the reason for the handbag being swapped into the left hand from the right...so that it will be on the side of the attendants when walking back to KK

This little mistake by the woman...which she made when setting out on her walk...for if the bag had been in the left hand from the start she would not have had to swap over at the turn...which is the give away...especialy as the swap was completed before the biggest explicit male put down of this short charade...which KK has been building to..."hold her purse , you men are so helpless"

7.34 - KK holds womans head again in both hands and woman begins to show early signs of swooning but stays upright. KK than turns attention to the male with one hand on his right shoulder KK jabs her finger into his chest and says "Jesus I want you to do something in him" he mutters something llike "praise the Lord"... she response with a few words and then gives him a strong stare into his face...she then makes the effort to swoon him under but nothing...then her face looses its countinence and becomes very firm and with a shake of her head and a dramatic gesture of outstretched arm in a commanding manner expels them both from the stage

I challenge anyone to watch carefully at the points I have mentioned...to rewind and watch again,,,and again...and see if these things I mention here are not true facts.

My conclusion...KK is a massive fraud who has a familiar spirit...one I am happy to say I am not familiar with....I thank the LORD Jesus Christ for revealing that to me, and others.
.
 
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Totton Linnet

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Miss Kuhlman was always most keen to show that God is ready to bless people of ALL persuasions and opinions [quite obviously the fact of their recieving a miracle would change their opinions forever]. She counted denominations [as do I] as unimportant, especially she was a great influence among charismatic Catholics, that is what she used to show off....she had a particular humour when dealing with men, I don't think she was disrespectful.

She was more spontaneous and less devious than you think. She was a show off.
 

moonbeam

Member
Banned
Miss Kuhlman was always most keen to show that God is ready to bless people of ALL persuasions and opinions [quite obviously the fact of their recieving a miracle would change their opinions forever]. She counted denominations [as do I] as unimportant, especially she was a great influence among charismatic Catholics, that is what she used to show off....she had a particular humour when dealing with men, I don't think she was disrespectful.

She was more spontaneous and less devious than you think. She was a show off.

I had posted earlier as you can tell by the posting time because the library was shutting and I felt compelled to get it out, I then returned to my nieces place were i am staying and completed what i had begun earlier,,,thats what accounts for the late editing time. Now my thoughts were my own and generated by the Spirit of Truth with in me...I had done zero consulting of others opinions as we are want to do and with google only a click away.

After I had posted the final draft i continued to watch about another 30 min of the video...I had only watched up to the 9th min up to that point with my thoughts than demanding I put pen to paper...so when I than heard her use the full titles of The LORD Jesus Christ in a few sections i did feel a little uncomfortable for a moment in that i had judged her to harshly and without a more expansive hearing...i had in mind the scripture that (paraphrase) no body can say Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Spirit...and the rememberance of that troubled me a little I have to admit...then i thought of the words of the Lord Jesus when he said (paraphase) Many will say to Me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name ? and Jesus replies, I never knew you, you workers of iniquity, depart from me...that comforted me because obviously they must have talked the talk...so the disturbance I had experienced was moderated and disipated...it was only then that i decided to google her name and do a bit of digging

What i found concerning the position i have taken at the bottom of my post was consistent with other members of the body of Christ who have had concerns. persons from her own era and also contempoary admireres of her ,such as Benny Hinn, who reveres her...the combination of these evidences and investigations into her life, ministry, and word's etc do support my independent conclusion.

One commentator was saddened that this was the case but the integrity of the body of Christ and defense of the Truth made his actions regretably neccesary.

There are things to be very concerned about...which you can discover for yourself on the net...and in checking these things out we do no disservice to our selves or the body of Christ...it is our solenm duty to examine ourselves and anybody else by the word of God

That Miss Kulhman was a very charismatic and notable person makes the task distastefull in the extreme for her admirers is understood...but this reluctance can not be condoned if it is merely based on sentimental grounds and a fear of discovering things that would lead to further disturbances of soul...the Spirit of Truth is exactly that...and the children of God need not fear to embrace their guide.
 

xAvarice

BANNED
Banned
I spent a lot of time in the States, and one thing that I really love about what I call a typical American is that they have a "can do" attitude. They just find a way of making things work when it seems impossible.

Kathryn kuhlman was a powerful go-getter for Christ.
Demons fled screaming in all directions when she showed up in town.

:sibbie:

Indeed, Americans are lovely people. But given the right circumstance so is most of humanity.
 

Lazy afternoon

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It all depends on whether men like Hinn today, and women like Kuhlman then,were leading the revival or following it.

Who are the many ?

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

LA
 

Lazy afternoon

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Also,

In my 50 years in Christ I have yet to see any good come of these famous shows.

The purpose of God in peoples lives are more hindered than helped by them.

All they seem to do is make idolaters of believers and take their money while they are at it.



LA
 

Lazy afternoon

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Any meeting for the preaching of the gospel can be sneered off as a show...ask African christians about T.L.Osborn, I've met them, they have come to England as missionaries.

The Domtilla Juma miracle

There is no record of Jesus or any of the apostles putting on a show.

It hinders the gospel more than it helps in the long run.

and don't you ever call the truth spoken to be a sneer, just because you boast in men and can not see that you do.

LA
 

Totton Linnet

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There is no record of Jesus or any of the apostles putting on a show.

It hinders the gospel more than it helps in the long run.

and don't you ever call the truth spoken to be a sneer, just because you boast in men and can not see that you do.

LA

There is no record of T.L.Osborn putting on a show either. You sneer, but those meetings in Africa were precious T.L. and his ministry and partners went to ENORMOUS trouble and expense to put them on. Go and ask the Africans about them, go and ask those who were saved, those who were healed and those who became missionaries.

I expect you call Billy Graham a showman for he works upon exactly the same methods as T.L.O but I have met pastors who were saved through BG's ministry. You see men, I see the Holy Ghost who you sneer at.
 

Totton Linnet

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Idi Amin the brutal Ugandan dictator of the 70s closed down the churhes and persecuted the christians in Uganda.

One day he was flying his helicopter and he saw a HUGE crowd gathered gathered on the Tanzanian/Uganda border. Fearing an invasion he demanded his helicopter to put down. He marched onto the platform where T.L.Osborn was preaching. He was immediately surrounded by national pastors and church leaders. Daisy Osborn greeted him while T.L. continued to preach, "what is this people doing gathered on my border" the tyrant demanded.

"They have come to pray and to study God's word" Daisy explained diplomatically

"that is good, I want that for my people too, to pray and study the word of God" Amin declared and walked off the platform. The word went out and that weekend the churches were open in Uganda. Amin invited the Osborns to preach in Kampala, the crusade which was perhaps T.L.s greatest campaign took place after Amin had been deposed. I have met beautiful Ugandan missionaries who were there.
 

Totton Linnet

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I had posted earlier as you can tell by the posting time because the library was shutting and I felt compelled to get it out, I then returned to my nieces place were i am staying and completed what i had begun earlier,,,thats what accounts for the late editing time. Now my thoughts were my own and generated by the Spirit of Truth with in me...I had done zero consulting of others opinions as we are want to do and with google only a click away.

After I had posted the final draft i continued to watch about another 30 min of the video...I had only watched up to the 9th min up to that point with my thoughts than demanding I put pen to paper...so when I than heard her use the full titles of The LORD Jesus Christ in a few sections i did feel a little uncomfortable for a moment in that i had judged her to harshly and without a more expansive hearing...i had in mind the scripture that (paraphrase) no body can say Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Spirit...and the rememberance of that troubled me a little I have to admit...then i thought of the words of the Lord Jesus when he said (paraphase) Many will say to Me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name ? and Jesus replies, I never knew you, you workers of iniquity, depart from me...that comforted me because obviously they must have talked the talk...so the disturbance I had experienced was moderated and disipated...it was only then that i decided to google her name and do a bit of digging

What i found concerning the position i have taken at the bottom of my post was consistent with other members of the body of Christ who have had concerns. persons from her own era and also contempoary admireres of her ,such as Benny Hinn, who reveres her...the combination of these evidences and investigations into her life, ministry, and word's etc do support my independent conclusion.

One commentator was saddened that this was the case but the integrity of the body of Christ and defense of the Truth made his actions regretably neccesary.

There are things to be very concerned about...which you can discover for yourself on the net...and in checking these things out we do no disservice to our selves or the body of Christ...it is our solenm duty to examine ourselves and anybody else by the word of God

That Miss Kulhman was a very charismatic and notable person makes the task distastefull in the extreme for her admirers is understood...but this reluctance can not be condoned if it is merely based on sentimental grounds and a fear of discovering things that would lead to further disturbances of soul...the Spirit of Truth is exactly that...and the children of God need not fear to embrace their guide.

If you had googled "Jesus" back in the days no doubt you would have had the position of the church leaders set out in innumerable blogs and online heresy houndogs plus many opinions of those who had followed Him but who drew back.

You shoulda gone to Peter, James and John.....Mary Magdelene....but of course these were the unwashed, the uneducated...rabble
 

Psalmist

Blessed is the man that......
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There is no record of T.L.Osborn putting on a show either. You sneer, but those meetings in Africa were precious T.L. and his ministry and partners went to ENORMOUS trouble and expense to put them on. Go and ask the Africans about them, go and ask those who were saved, those who were healed and those who became missionaries.

I expect you call Billy Graham a showman for he works upon exactly the same methods as T.L.O but I have met pastors who were saved through BG's ministry. You see men, I see the Holy Ghost who you sneer at.
If I remember correctly (it's been a long time ago) Bro Osborn and Daisy came to Denver for meetings in several churches, T. L. never put on a show, he came with Gospel truth and delivered. What got my attention was when Bro Osborn would do the salvation messages on a TV program, T. L. would wait for a few minutes while the listeners/views would go and get the rest of their members because "they could do it."

Bro Osborn also had a deep abiding love for Daisy, and that was no put on either.

The Osborn's record speaks for itself, they honor the Lord always, and brought a savaltion that was understood.
 
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