Thoughts about why identify as Jewish.

[Jacob]

Galatians 3:23 NASB - 23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.

 

[Jacob]

Philippians 3:7-16 NASB - 7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, 9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you; 16 however, let us keep living by that same standard to which we have attained.

Romans 8:9 NASB - 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Galatians 3:2, 5, 14 NASB - 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? ... 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? ... 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 5:5 NASB - 5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.

 

[Bradley D]

Is the verse talking about a Jew who is really a Jew (because he is one inwardly) or is it talking about how in Christ anyone can be a Jew inwardly?

I believe both!

 

[Jacob]

I believe both!

What about Jews who say they are Jews but they are not? There was that warning many go to in Revelation.

In Romans was Paul simply saying that a person may be a Jew by birth but they need to be a Jew in the spiritual sense, not devoid of the truth and perhaps having the Spirit of God dwelling in them? Maybe just that they would be a true Jew, one who accepts the Messiah and whose life demonstrates the change that only God can be. That is, a Jew has the Torah and the God of the Bible, the Law and the Prophets, but had not necessarily experienced an inner change. Or, that they would be circumcised of heart and not just circumcised of the flesh?

These are ideas.

The gospel is to the Jew first and then to the Greek or the Gentile.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

It only appears to you that you agree with what I posted.

But what you are doing is fusing together things that don't go together and concluding you arrived at this fusion from "reading the Bible."

You do not see that you are fusing together things that do not go together. Others see that that is what you are doing. As a result your contradictions are clear to them.

Fact is, fuse them together how you believe they must be fused together, fact is "ye are NOT under the Law...ye ARE under grace," Rom. 6:14.

Fact is that "the Law entered (was given) that the trangression might abound" Rom. 5:20.

Of course, being that charity "believeth all things" (gives the benefit of the doubt) 1 Cor. 13:7, I'll believe for now that your intent in your attempted understanding is a well intended one.

At the same time, wood, hay, and stubble are still wood, hay, and stubble, whether well intended or not.

You are fusing Law and Grace despite the obvious.

I'd suggest you read Galatians a good dozen times or so. It was written to adress your exact confusion.

Of course, you will now reply with more of the same. But I am not the One you will one day have to answer to as to why you allowed yourself to marry your conclusions just because they appeared sound to you.

Again, read through Galatians a dozen times or so.

The best to you in this.

You are fusing all references to the law as meaning the same thing.

For example the law and the prophets testified to Jesus Christ.

The law is sometimes referring to the law of the Old covenant and sometimes not.

Jesus said the law was not done away with.

In reading the law (the OT) Christ is seen by those with no veil over their eyes when they turn to the Lord

Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Obviously those parts of the law were not those written to condemn sinners.

1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
1Ti 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1Ti 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

LA

 

[Ben Masada]

Anybody else notice how Un contradicts himself?

That's wish-thinking. Untellectual must have read the essay of Mark Twain about the Jews and fell in love with them.

 

[JosephR]

Jew or Goyiem..

All are covered in Gen 6 if you follow the Law.

The law of the Hebrew or the Law of man ,is love and is valid.

 

[Bradley D]

What about Jews who say they are Jews but they are not? There was that warning many go to in Revelation.

In Romans was Paul simply saying that a person may be a Jew by birth but they need to be a Jew in the spiritual sense, not devoid of the truth and perhaps having the Spirit of God dwelling in them? Maybe just that they would be a true Jew, one who accepts the Messiah and whose life demonstrates the change that only God can be. That is, a Jew has the Torah and the God of the Bible, the Law and the Prophets, but had not necessarily experienced an inner change. Or, that they would be circumcised of heart and not just circumcised of the flesh?

These are ideas.

The gospel is to the Jew first and then to the Greek or the Gentile.

I would say that the true Jew would be the one who has accepted Christ. The first Christians were the circumcised Jews. There are Jews who continued to come and believe in Christ today. The Gentiles become Jews/God's own in spirit by accepting Christ. In the end God knows who are His children. God will judge those who are not.

 

[chair]

I would say that the true Jew would be the one who has accepted Christ. The first Christians were the circumcised Jews. There are Jews who continued to come and believe in Christ today. The Gentiles become Jews/God's own in spirit by accepting Christ. In the end God knows who are His children. God will judge those who are not.

Why this obsessive need to identify yourselves as "true Jews"? Let Jews be Jews, and Christians be Christians.

 

[Jacob]

Can a Jew be a Christian and a Gentile be a Christian?

 

[Bradley D]

Why this obsessive need to identify yourselves as "true Jews"? Let Jews be Jews, and Christians be Christians.

Because of the Apostle Paul and his epistles. Paul also wrote that once a Christian it does not matter what our background is.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:28).

 

[chair]

Because of the Apostle Paul and his epistles. Paul also wrote that once a Christian it does not matter what our background is.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:28).

Do you have any idea of what the historical background of Paul's writings are?

 

[Ben Masada]

Can a Jew be a Christian and a Gentile be a Christian?

No, because there is no hyphenated Jew in Israel. One is either a Jew or a Christian for there is no such a thing as a Christian-Jew or a Jewish-Christian.

Now, as for a Gentile to be a Christian, all Christians are Gentiles though not all Gentiles are Christians.

 

[Ben Masada]

Jew or Goyiem..

All are covered in Gen 6 if you follow the Law.

The law of the Hebrew or the Law of man ,is love and is valid.

I don't know what you are talking about by all being covered in Genesis 6. Jews or goim. The text is about the Flood when the Jews did not exist yet. Whatever you have in mind, does not sound clear to me.

 

[Ben Masada]

Galatians 3:23 NASB - 23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.

Later when? At his time, Paul already used to claim that he and his followers had been released from the Law. (Rom. 7:6) Then, we had Jesus himself saying that no one could be released from the Law. (Mat. 5:19) When then was later?

 

[Jacob]

No, because there is no hyphenated Jew in Israel. One is either a Jew or a Christian for there is no such a thing as a Christian-Jew or a Jewish-Christian.

Now, as for a Gentile to be a Christian, all Christians are Gentiles though not all Gentiles are Christians.

I understand that not all Gentiles are Christians.

A person is either a Jew and Christian or not Christian, or a Gentile and Christian or not Christian. The only other option is to be a Christian and not be a Jew or a Gentile. I know that since I was not born a Jew I was born a Gentile.

The early church was made up or composed of Jews. That is, the first believers, though believers were not at this time called Christians, were of the nation of Israel.

So, a person who observes the Law of the nation of Israel, serving the God of the nation of Israel, the God of the Jews, and the God of the Gentiles (there is only one God), and believes Jesus to be the Christ (Yeshua to be the Messiah) would be considered both an Israeli or a Jew, and a Christian. There may be reasons not to call yourself a Christian and still be a believer in Yeshua the Messiah, called among the people of God, born again of the Spirit of God, and saved including knowing that you have eternal life.

Israel's God is my God. If someone says I am not a Jew, that is fine. But that doesn't mean I intend to disobey God in any way. I have learned of God from God's Law and I see no reason to abandon it even though being circumcised I do not observe every law of Israel. I have said I am both Jewish and Christian because I practice Jewish things and believe Jesus to be the Christ, my Messiah (Yeshua).

I have had reasons to not wear tzit-tzit. But nobody has pressured me saying I need to. At times I have felt I would like to. But I am okay knowing I can but that I don't have to.

The only other thing that I can think of that would be good to say for the reason of saying it is that I do believe Yeshua brought a new covenant. Even in this I have trouble or difficulty getting away from what I believe to be true, that God's Law and God's commands go together. That is, the commands of God are found in the Law of God, even if there are commands of God that are found in the New Testament writings.

 

[Jacob]

Later when? At his time, Paul already used to claim that he and his followers had been released from the Law. (Rom. 7:6) Then, we had Jesus himself saying that no one could be released from the Law. (Mat. 5:19) When then was later?

Later what? I'm not sure what you are asking.

I believe Matthew 5:19, yes. I believe Paul in Romans 7:6. I'm not sure if he meant that he would serve God by not keeping the law. I think that would be exaggerating his words. Remember that Paul himself walked orderly, keeping the law.

If it is possible to live in such a way that you keep the law without thinking of the law while you are doing it, that might be something to consider. But I don't know that that is what Paul was saying. He was talking about living by the Spirit for sure.

 

[elohiym]

Because Judaism came first...

Did it, brother? I believe the covenant with Abraham (the gospel promise) was made before the law.

Where did the word Judaism originate? It's an English word.

Christian just means follower of Christ, and that is what you are. Before they were called Christians, and perhaps after, they called themselves followers of the Way.

 

[chair]

Did it, brother? I believe the covenant with Abraham (the gospel promise) was made before the law.

Where did the word Judaism originate? It's an English word.

Christian just means follower of Christ, and that is what you are. Before they were called Christians, and perhaps after, they called themselves followers of the Way.

What kind of mental gymnastics makes the covenant with Abraham the "gospel promise"?

 

[Jacob]

Did it, brother? I believe the covenant with Abraham (the gospel promise) was made before the law.

Where did the word Judaism originate? It's an English word.

Christian just means follower of Christ, and that is what you are. Before they were called Christians, and perhaps after, they called themselves followers of the Way.

There were Jewish believers before anyone was ever called a Christian.

That Yeshua is the Messiah is something that comes with true Judaism. The expectation of a coming Messiah was there in Judaism before Yeshua (Jesus) as I understand it. Jesus is the Christ.