ECT They can't be the same

[Interplanner]

No

Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

ToStoP,
besides the spot-on quote by LA, the key passage on the hidden mystery in Eph 3 is not the death of Christ. And it is not that issue as the NT rolls on. Eph 3 is saying that Judaism did not think the promises would come to the nations through Christ. They thought the patriarchal promises would come to the nations through the Law. All the weight of Eph 3 falls on the prep. phrase 'through the Gospel.' It is places first in the sentence in the original, which indicates it is the anchor of that sentence.

Obviously many people including the disciples did not realize what Christ was saying from the very start. That does not mean it was not intended to be understood, and John was the greatest of the prophets for saying that the Lamb was here.

 

[jamie]

I don't recall the passover lamb being a sin offering.
Also, the scapegoat (unkilled) "took away" the people's sins.

The fact that Christ would die for the people's sins was indeed hidden in the scriptures until revealed to Paul. This is the mystery of Christ.

John said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world." (John 1:29 NKJV)

The Lamb of God took away sin on Nisan 14 when the passover was killed.

The Scapegoat was not killed by man and neither was Jesus.

Therefore My Father loves Me because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. (John 10:17-18 NKV)​

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

No

Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

The fact that Christ would die for the people's sins was indeed hidden in the scriptures until revealed to Paul. This is the mystery of Christ.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

The Lamb of God took away sin on Nisan 14 when the passover was killed.

Why were the passover and day of atonement months apart?
There has to be a reason.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Obviously many people including the disciples did not realize what Christ was saying from the very start. That does not mean it was not intended to be understood, and John was the greatest of the prophets for saying that the Lamb was here.

Luke 18
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

 

[Cross Reference]

The fact that Christ would die for the people's sins was indeed hidden in the scriptures until revealed to Paul. This is the mystery of Christ.

Nonsense! "For this reason came I into the world . .. to give knowledge of their salvation and the forgiveness of their sins". Now, what was the reason Not so hidden in the scriptures?

 

[Nick M]

The fact that Christ would die for the people's sins was indeed hidden in the scriptures until revealed to Paul. This is the mystery of Christ.

That and people like Mel Gibson can be saved without blessing Israel.

 

[Nick M]

Nonsense...Now, what was the reason Not so hidden in the scriptures?

Luke 18
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

That and people like Mel Gibson can be saved without blessing Israel.

Indeed,

Mystery of Christ- that Christ died for men's sins.

Mystery of the Gospel- that Christ died for all, even Gentiles excluded from the promises to Abraham.

 

[achduke]

Indeed,

Mystery of Christ- that Christ died for men's sins.

Mystery of the Gospel- that Christ died for all, even Gentiles excluded from the promises to Abraham.

Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

Isaiah 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

Isaiah 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

These Gentiles would be included in the promises to Abraham. Not excluded.

 

[achduke]

These Gentiles would be included in the promises to Abraham. Not excluded.

That is the point. They are included. Do you think believing gentiles in Christ are not included?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

That is the point. They are included. Do you think believing gentiles in Christ are not included?

There are Gentiles excluded in Gen 12:1-3 (KJV). The cursed.
The mystery of the gospel is that these have hope too, now.

 

[achduke]

There are Gentiles excluded in Gen 12:1-3 (KJV). The cursed.
The mystery of the gospel is that these have hope too, now.

They only have hope if they are in Christ. Even native born Israel is not included unless they are in Christ. The OT prophets and Saints believed in the promise that Christ would bring.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Daniel 12:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

They only have hope if they are in Christ. Even native born Israel is not included unless they are in Christ. The OT prophets and Saints believed in the promise that Christ would bring.

You aren't seeing it.

 

[Cross Reference]

There are Gentiles excluded in Gen 12:1-3 (KJV). The cursed.
The mystery of the gospel is that these have hope too, now.

Where is the mystery when it is so easy to understand . .it was that way from the beginning??

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Where is the mystery when it is so easy to understand . .it was that way from the beginning??

Gen 12:1-3 (KJV)

1. There are people blessed.
2. There are people cursed.

The mystery of the gospel is that the cursed get blessed.

That's as simple as I can make it.

 

[Cross Reference]

Gen 12:1-3 (KJV)

1. There are people blessed.
2. There are people cursed.

The mystery of the gospel is that the cursed get blessed.

That's as simple as I can make it.

Everyone got cursed when Adam transgressed. The separation of Hebrew and Gentile was for other reasons. And that is as simple as I can make it.

 

[achduke]

You aren't seeing it.

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

How do the Gentiles Come In?

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

What happens after the fullness of the Gentiles is grafted in with them?

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Everyone got cursed when Adam transgressed.

The point:

Those that cursed the seed of Abraham could not get blessed.
The mystery of the gospel is that now they can be blessed.

I dumbed it down even further for you.