There is no Hell

[Timotheos]

No matter how you twist and divert scripture says YOU are wrong.

Wow, that's surprising. I didn't twist or divert any scripture, I simply quoted it. Here it is again, so you can be corrected:
The stupid man cannot know;
the fool cannot understand this:
that though the wicked sprout like grass
and all evildoers flourish,
they are doomed to destruction forever;
Psalm 92:6-7

Eternal Punishment
Matt. 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

You are very stubborn and you refuse to take correction. Can't you see that Matthew 25:46 says eternal punishment and NOT eternal torment? They are doomed to DESTRUCTION forever, you can't keep on ignoring that. The eternal punishment CANNOT be eternal conscious torment because Matthew 25:46 says that only the OTHER group receives eternal life. WHY do you keep on IGNORING this? I would like a statement from you addressing the FACT that only ONE of the groups in Matthew 25:46 receives eternal life. If eternal torture in Hell is correct, then BOTH groups receive eternal life and Jesus Christ is WRONG. What do you have to say about that?

The word "eternal" in both places is "aionios" which means 1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be; 2) without beginning; 3) without end, never to cease, everlasting. The word "punishment" is the word "kolasis" and it means "to punish, with the implication of resulting severe suffering--'to punish, punishment.'"

WHY can't you understand and accept that ETERNAL DEATH really is ETERNAL??? Your argument doesn't work to refute that the eternal punishment is being eternally destroyed.

Jesus said, "And if your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 "And if your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to go into hell." (Matt. 5:29-

Yes, Jesus did say that, but He didn't say that when your whole body goes into "hell" it is tormented there. Do NOT forget that Jesus said in MAtthew 10:28 that the bodies and souls of those sent to Gehenna will be destroyed there.

The fact is that you are wrong and you are twisting scripture in order to remain wrong for some unknown reason. I think the reason is because you WANT somebody to be tormented for all eternity.

Why don't you just accept what the Bible says, instead of your false doctrine of eternal torture?

 

[dodge]

Wow, that's surprising. I didn't twist or divert any scripture, I simply quoted it. Here it is again, so you can be corrected:
The stupid man cannot know;
the fool cannot understand this:
that though the wicked sprout like grass
and all evildoers flourish,
they are doomed to destruction forever;
Psalm 92:6-7
You are very stubborn and you refuse to take correction. Can't you see that Matthew 25:46 says eternal punishment and NOT eternal torment? They are doomed to DESTRUCTION forever, you can't keep on ignoring that. The eternal punishment CANNOT be eternal conscious torment because Matthew 25:46 says that only the OTHER group receives eternal life. WHY do you keep on IGNORING this? I would like a statement from you addressing the FACT that only ONE of the groups in Matthew 25:46 receives eternal life. If eternal torture in Hell is correct, then BOTH groups receive eternal life and Jesus Christ is WRONG. What do you have to say about that?


WHY can't you understand and accept that ETERNAL DEATH really is ETERNAL??? Your argument doesn't work to refute that the eternal punishment is being eternally destroyed.


Yes, Jesus did say that, but He didn't say that when your whole body goes into "hell" it is tormented there. Do NOT forget that Jesus said in MAtthew 10:28 that the bodies and souls of those sent to Gehenna will be destroyed there.

The fact is that you are wrong and you are twisting scripture in order to remain wrong for some unknown reason. I think the reason is because you WANT somebody to be tormented for all eternity.

Why don't you just accept what the Bible says, instead of your false doctrine of eternal torture?

Eternal Punishment
Matt. 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

The word "eternal" in both places is "aionios" which means 1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be; 2) without beginning; 3) without end, never to cease, everlasting. The word "punishment" is the word "kolasis" and it means "to punish, with the implication of resulting severe suffering--'to punish, punishment.'"


Jesus said, "And if your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 "And if your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to go into hell." (Matt. 5:29-

 

[Timotheos]

Eternal Punishment
Matt. 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

The word "eternal" in both places is "aionios" which means 1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be; 2) without beginning; 3) without end, never to cease, everlasting. The word "punishment" is the word "kolasis" and it means "to punish, with the implication of resulting severe suffering--'to punish, punishment.'"


Jesus said, "And if your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 "And if your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to go into hell." (Matt. 5:29-

According Jesus Christ Himself in Matthew 25:46 only ONE of the groups gets to have eternal life. That absolutely PROVES that there is no eternal life in hell being tortured alive.

The Bible says that those who deny that the wicked will be destroyed are stupid and foolish. Don't put yourself into that group:
The stupid man cannot know;
the fool cannot understand this:
that though the wicked sprout like grass
and all evildoers flourish,
they are doomed to destruction forever;
Psalm 92:6-7

 

[dodge]

According Jesus Christ Himself in Matthew 25:46 only ONE of the groups gets to have eternal life. That absolutely PROVES that there is no eternal life in hell being tortured alive.

The Bible says that those who deny that the wicked will be destroyed are stupid and foolish. Don't put yourself into that group:
The stupid man cannot know;
the fool cannot understand this:
that though the wicked sprout like grass
and all evildoers flourish,
they are doomed to destruction forever;
Psalm 92:6-7

The word "eternal" in both places is "aionios" which means 1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be; 2) without beginning; 3) without end, never to cease, everlasting. The word "punishment" is the word "kolasis" and it means "to punish, with the implication of resulting severe suffering--'to punish, punishment.'"


Jesus said, "And if your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 "And if your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to go into hell." (Matt. 5:29-

 

[Timotheos]

The word "eternal" in both places is "aionios" which means 1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be; 2) without beginning; 3) without end, never to cease, everlasting. The word "punishment" is the word "kolasis" and it means "to punish, with the implication of resulting severe suffering--'to punish, punishment.'"


Jesus said, "And if your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 "And if your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to go into hell." (Matt. 5:29-

Already addressed.
According to the Bible (Psalm 92:6-7), the Stupid and the Foolish deny that the wicked will be destroyed.
It is not surprising that you deny that the wicked will be destroyed, because the Bible says that you CANNOT KNOW and CANNOT UNDERSTAND that the wicked are doomed to destruction.

Keep on arguing against God's Word. You WILL finally realize the truth on Judgment Day.

 

[dodge]

Already addressed.
According to the Bible (Psalm 92:6-7), the Stupid and the Foolish deny that the wicked will be destroyed.
It is not surprising that you deny that the wicked will be destroyed, because the Bible says that you CANNOT KNOW and CANNOT UNDERSTAND that the wicked are doomed to destruction.

Keep on arguing against God's Word. You WILL finally realize the truth on Judgment Day.

You never addressed anything you distorted and changed the context of scripture. YOUR loss NOT mine.

 

[Timotheos]

You never addressed anything you distorted and changed the context of scripture. YOUR loss NOT mine.

Addressed by stating the FACT that Jesus said in Matthew 25:46 that only the righteous receive eternal life, NOT both groups. Unrefuted by you.

Addressed by stating that ETERNAL DEATH is obviously and irrefutably ETERNAL!!!

Addressed by quoting Jesus Christ, who said in Matthew 10:28 that the bodies and souls of the wicked will be destroyed.

Unrefuted by you.

I am not surprised that you are unable to understand that the wicked will be destroyed, since the Bible says that you "CANNOT KNOW" and "CANNOT UNDERSTAND" that the wicked are doomed to destruction. Psalm 92:6-7

Keep on arguing against God's Word. You prove that you CANNOT KNOW and CANNOT UNDERSTAND that the wicked are doomed to destruction.

 

[dodge]

Addressed by stating the FACT that Jesus said in Matthew 25:46 that only the righteous receive eternal life, NOT both groups. Unrefuted by you.

Addressed by stating that ETERNAL DEATH is obviously and irrefutably ETERNAL!!!

Addressed by quoting Jesus Christ, who said in Matthew 10:28 that the bodies and souls of the wicked will be destroyed.

Unrefuted by you.

I am not surprised that you are unable to understand that the wicked will be destroyed, since the Bible says that you "CANNOT KNOW" and "CANNOT UNDERSTAND" that the wicked are doomed to destruction. Psalm 92:6-7

Keep on arguing against God's Word. You prove that you CANNOT KNOW and CANNOT UNDERSTAND that the wicked are doomed to destruction.

Thank God I am not like those that IGNORE God's word for their own agenda. You cannot be that BLIND to scripture , but then again OBVIOUSLY you are.

 

[way 2 go]

Addressed by stating the FACT that Jesus said in Matthew 25:46 that only the righteous receive eternal life, NOT both groups. Unrefuted by you.

strawman , no one thinks both sides get eternal life

Mat_8:22 And Jesus said to him, "Follow me, and leave the dead to bury their own dead."

Addressed by stating that ETERNAL DEATH is obviously and irrefutably ETERNAL!!!

Illegitimate Totality Transfer of the meaning of death

2nd death is eternal but they are alive

Addressed by quoting Jesus Christ, who said in Matthew 10:28 that the bodies and souls of the wicked will be destroyed.
Unrefuted by you.

refuted so long ago

if by destroy you mean ruin like in the the following verses
which use the exact same word for destroy apollumi

Luk 9:56 For the Son of Man has not come to destroy men's lives, but to save. And they went to another village.

Rom 14:15 But if your brother is grieved with your food, you no longer walk according to love. Do not with your food destroy him for whom Christ died.

then yes God will eternally punish the unrighteous

Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

 

[Timotheos]

strawman , no one thinks both sides get eternal life

You said yourself that you believe they are alive, so don't lie now.

I agree with the bible that the wicked will suffer
alive yet spiritually dead in fire.

Since you believe that the wicked will be alive in hell forever, you are saying that they will also receive eternal life. According to Matthew 25:46 they will not go to eternal life.

 

[Timotheos]

Thank God I am not like those that IGNORE God's word for their own agenda. You cannot be that BLIND to scripture , but then again OBVIOUSLY you are.

Actually I believe God's Word, but you do not believe that the wicked will be destroyed, so you IGNORE God's word for your own agenda of eternal life in hell being tortured. Actually, to be more accurate, it is NOT your agenda at all. It is the devil who said "Surely you will not die". The origin of the docrine of universal immortality is the serpent in the garden of Eden. The serpent, who is the devil, has blinded you to scripture.

Here is Psalm 92:6-7 again. I suggest that you REALLY READ it. It says what God thinks of people who deny that the wicked will be destroyed. (That's you!)
The stupid man cannot know;
the fool cannot understand this:
that though the wicked sprout like grass
and all evildoers flourish,
they are doomed to destruction forever

The reason that you cannot know and cannot understand that the wicked really will be destroyed is because you have been blinded by the serpent's doctrine. The teaching of Jesus Christ that the way is wide that leads to destruction has been replaced with Traditions of men, the tradition that nobody will ever be destroyed, that "surely you will not die". The gospel has been changed from "Whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life" to "Whosover believes in him will not be tortured alive in hell forever." It is sad the way you set aside scripture for the sake of your tradition.

 

[way 2 go]

You said yourself that you believe they are alive, so don't lie now.

alive but spiritually dead

Mat_8:22 And Jesus said to him, "Follow me, and leave the dead to bury their own dead."

Since you believe that the wicked will be alive in hell forever, you are saying that they will also receive eternal life. According to Matthew 25:46 they will not go to eternal life.

Illegitimate Totality Transfer of the meaning of death


says eternal punishment

the wicked go through this life spiritually dead Mat 8:22
the wicked are still dead on judgement day Rev 20:12
the wicked will go into eternal punishment spiritually dead conscious Rev 21:8

 

[Timotheos]

alive but spiritually dead

That's NOT what the Bible says. The phrase "alive but spiritually dead" is not even IN the Bible. For that matter the phrase "spiritually dead" is not in the Bible.

says eternal punishment

This again??? The answer is the same as it has been the last 200 times you said "it says eternal punishment". I'm SURE you know the answer by now. DEATH is a punishment. You KNOW this! There is a DEATH penalty for murder, so we agree that death is a punishment. Death that last forever is eternal. Anything that lasts forever is eternal. You know this. Since death is eternal, and death is a punishment, then eternal death is an eternal punishment. You know this, but you put forth the same exact argument that was refuted 200 times before. Why do you do that? Are you an eternal optimist who thinks "although this stupid argument didn't work 200 times before, today is the special day when it will work?" LOOK that the verse! READ IT! It says that only ONE group receive eternal life. If the wicked go to hell to live forever being tortured alive, then they have also received eternal life. A sucky eternal life, but still eternal life. WHY can't you understand this? Do you have reading comprehension problems?

the wicked go through this life spiritually dead Mat 8:22

NO. Matthew 8:22 does NOT SAY "the wicked go through this life spiritually dead."

the wicked are still dead on judgement day Rev 20:12

No. Revelation 20:12 doesn't say that the dead are still dead on Judgment Day. Evidentually you also reject the resurrection of the dead. If the dead are not raised, then Jesus Christ was also not raised from the dead, and your faith is in vain.

the wicked will go into eternal punishment spiritually dead conscious Rev 21:8

Revelation 21:8 doesn't say "the wicked will go into eternal punishment spiritually dead conscious." That string of words doesn't even make any sense. Revelation 21:8 says that they go into the lake of fire which is the second death. Going into a lake of fire would certainly kill a person. If you can't accept that, John makes it even more clear "The lake of fire is the second death". Since it is death, it can't possibly be eternal life being tortured alive.

Why don't you simply accept what the Bible says? Look at John 3:16 and tell me what it says.
Throughout the Bible, the fate of the wicked is said to be death, perishing, destruction, being burnt to ash, and being no more. Do you seriously expect me to believe that every verse in the Bible that uses clear language to indicate the destruction of the wicked is simply WRONG and you are are correct? I'm not ready to drink your Kool-Aid.

You keep on ignoring Psalm 92:6-7.
Can you tell me what it says in the English Standard Version, so that I know that you have even seen it??? I'm serious. Post Psalm 92:6-7 ESV or concede that you are wrong.

 

[way 2 go]

That's NOT what the Bible says. The phrase "alive but spiritually dead" is not even IN the Bible. For that matter the phrase "spiritually dead" is not in the Bible.

the word "Bible" is not in the bible :think:

This again??? The answer is the same as it has been the last 200 times you said "it says eternal punishment". I'm SURE you know the answer by now. DEATH is a punishment. You KNOW this! There is a DEATH penalty for murder, so we agree that death is a punishment. Death that last forever is eternal. Anything that lasts forever is eternal. You know this. Since death is eternal, and death is a punishment, then eternal death is an eternal punishment. You know this, but you put forth the same exact argument that was refuted 200 times before. Why do you do that? Are you an eternal optimist who thinks "although this stupid argument didn't work 200 times before, today is the special day when it will work?" LOOK that the verse! READ IT! It says that only ONE group receive eternal life. If the wicked go to hell to live forever being tortured alive, then they have also received eternal life. A sucky eternal life, but still eternal life. WHY can't you understand this? Do you have reading comprehension problems?

you have reading comprehension problems

you will eternally come to a stop
you will come to stop

eternal is the duration of the existence
punishment is the lake of fire

NO. Matthew 8:22 does NOT SAY "the wicked go through this life spiritually dead."

notice you avoid defining the verse
you would have to obfuscate .

No. Revelation 20:12 doesn't say that the dead are still dead on Judgment Day. Evidentually you also reject the resurrection of the dead. If the dead are not raised, then Jesus Christ was also not raised from the dead, and your faith is in vain.

the dead are raised in Rev20:12 but they are still spiritually dead
hence they are still referred to as dead.

bad try at obfuscation

Revelation 21:8 doesn't say "the wicked will go into eternal punishment spiritually dead conscious." That string of words doesn't even make any sense. Revelation 21:8 says that they go into the lake of fire which is the second death. Going into a lake of fire would certainly kill a person. If you can't accept that, John makes it even more clear "The lake of fire is the second death". Since it is death, it can't possibly be eternal life being tortured alive.

if your spirit being separated from your body does not cause you to
cease to exist why would fire?

Why don't you simply accept what the Bible says? Look at John 3:16 and tell me what it says.
Throughout the Bible, the fate of the wicked is said to be death, perishing, destruction, being burnt to ash,

being burnt to ash ? chapter & verse ? I'm guessing earthly body, again

and being no more.

here on earth

Do you seriously expect me to believe that every verse in the Bible that uses clear language to indicate the destruction of the wicked is simply WRONG and you are are correct? I'm not ready to drink your Kool-Aid.

I expect you to properly and truthfully define words in context
but that's not going to happen.

You keep on ignoring Psalm 92:6-7.
Can you tell me what it says in the English Standard Version, so that I know that you have even seen it??? I'm serious. Post Psalm 92:6-7 ESV or concede that you are wrong.

the wicked are doomed to ruin in the lake of fire forever.
I understand that.

 

[Timotheos]

the wicked are doomed to ruin in the lake of fire forever.
I understand that.

I know that you THINK the wicked are doomed to ruin in the lake of fire forever, but that isn't what the Bible says.
The Bible doesn't say that the lake of fire is eternal ruin, it says the lake of fire is the second DEATH. (Revelation 20:14)
The Bible doesn't say that the wages of sin is eternal ruin, it says the wages of sin is death. (Romans 6:23)
The Bible doesn't say that the wicked will continue to exist forever in ruin, it says the wicked will be no more. (Psalm 37:10)
The Bible doesn't say that the wicked will burn alive forever, it says that they will be burnt to ash. (Malachi 4:3)

 

[CherubRam]

I know that you THINK the wicked are doomed to ruin in the lake of fire forever, but that isn't what the Bible says.
The Bible doesn't say that the lake of fire is eternal ruin, it says the lake of fire is the second DEATH. (Revelation 20:14)
The Bible doesn't say that the wages of sin is eternal ruin, it says the wages of sin is death. (Romans 6:23)
The Bible doesn't say that the wicked will continue to exist forever in ruin, it says the wicked will be no more. (Psalm 37:10)
The Bible doesn't say that the wicked will burn alive forever, it says that they will be burnt to ash. (Malachi 4:3)

Your point is very well made, I do not see how anyone could not agree with you.

 

[Ben Masada]

Your point of view is that of a Pagan Jew. Orthodox Jews do not believe in a Hell.

If you ever find an Orthodox Jew who says "there is no hell" ask him where do they take their dead ones when
they pass away? All of them are being taken to hell aka the grave. That's the Jewish hell.

 

[Timotheos]

Your point is very well made, I do not see how anyone could not agree with you.

Wow, thanks! That is a very nice thing to say.

 

[CherubRam]

If you ever find an Orthodox Jew who says "there is no hell" ask him where do they take their dead ones when
they pass away? All of them are being taken to hell aka the grave. That's the Jewish hell.

The Hebrew word "sheol" means grave, it never means Hell. Jewish Hell is a joke. Traditional Jews do not believe in a Hell.
Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam
Satan is the opposition along with his messengers. We are talking about people, not some fanciful misconception.



QUOTE=Ben Masada: I am glad to say you are improving. Indeed, Satan is only a concept to illustrate the evil inclination in man. It does not exist as a real being. But then again, I am a Jew. How are you as a Christian, getting along with every one else?

CherubRam: There are more and more Christians agreeing with me as each year passes by.

 

[CherubRam]

Wow, thanks! That is a very nice thing to say.

You are welcome.