There is no Hell

[Timotheos]

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[KingdomRose]

I sure hope you are right that there is no Hell, but I would not bet my soul on it. Hell makes sense because there is no evidence that anything made by God can be destroyed. So all of us will exist forever. The evil ones need to be put someplace where they can't make trouble.

If God could destroy something He has caused to be, why would He permit Satan to remain in existence? Destruction is not possible, anything that has existed, continues to exist in the past. Like flies in amber. Time is a dimension not a sequence. Past events and persons are real but cannot change.

I'm new here and don't know a thing about how to maneuver around. Anyway, I'd like to comment about the topic.

You say you don't think that anything made by God can be destroyed? You can believe that only if you believe Satan's original lie to Eve (and the rest of us) that "You will NOT surely die." God said that A&E would die...that is, go back to the ground as dust. Satan said, "No." That is how all religions got their idea that a human's spirit lives on in a conscious manner. There is no reality in that assumption, and the Bible doesn't teach it.

Adam and Eve no longer exist. No one who has ever died still exists. We have the hope of Almighty God bringing back these people (probably not A&E) as they were before they died, only without problems. They all are in His memory.

And why would God influence the Apostle John and also Paul to write that Satan and all those who side with him will be DESTROYED if they are not really going to be destroyed? (2 Thessalonians 1:9; Rev.20:12-15)

You might have noticed that "Death" and "Hades" (Hell) will be thrown into the lake of fire.....obviously meaning total destruction, because they can't physically be thrown, and how can "Hell" be thrown into "Hell" anyway? So the lake of fire SYMBOLIZES complete annihilation. The bad people will be truly destroyed, not put somewhere to be abused for the rest of eternity. (Is God really an abuser?)

 

[Timotheos]

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[Timotheos]

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[KingdomRose]

I also believe that scriptures is the word of God, but unlike you I know that men have tampered with it; the bible even says so. The best way to deal with info overload, is come back to it later, when you are feeling up to it.

Unlike me? I too realize that men have tampered with the Scriptures. Big time. I've read such respected Bible scholars as Bart Ehrman, Jason BeDuhn, Anthony F. Buzzard, Charles F. Hunting, Robert Young, and many more. Taking God's name (YHWH) out of the Bible is a very big tampering job. Then you have such audacious tamperings as Philippians 2:6; John 8:58; Hebrews 1:8; I Timothy 3:16; Titus 2:13; John 1:1 and many others.....Yet the true message can be discerned.

 

[ok doser]

Adam and Eve no longer exist. No one who has ever died still exists. We have the hope of Almighty God bringing back these people (probably not A&E) as they were before they died, only without problems. They all are in His memory.

scripture?

 

[KingdomRose]

No, he is not deader than a doornail.

Death DOES NOT mean cessation of existence.
After my body perishes, I will continue to exist.

You said:


If I understood you correctly, you believe that nonexistence is harsh enough punishment for Adolph Hitler for the killing of 11+ million people, from my example. That for me would be a reward, not a punishment.

The worst perishing in the world is realizing, AFTER it is TOO LATE, that one is separated from God for eternity.

The worst death in the world is realizing, AFTER it is TOO LATE, that one is separated from God for eternity.

It is my hope that Adolph Hitler is awake and well aware of what he did and where he is and his punishment being that he sees the majority of the faces he exterminated looking back at him and he wishing, for eternity, he could be in their places and he, for eternity, still hating that all he did, did nothing to exterminate God’s people and he, for eternity, unable to do anything about their heritage, which is being with God for eternity. Now, that is punishment, for me.

Hell for me is being separated from God for eternity realizing that one has rejected the only way to be with God for eternity – Jesus Christ and His work on the Cross of Calvary — Old or New Testament times. Different terminology; same conclusion.

I hope I emphasized 'for eternity' enough.

No, I think you have to rethink your position. When we are dead, we are actually dead! Satan said we wouldn't be, but dead means dead---the opposite of life. How awkward to really believe that when we die we are really alive. Satan smiles over that one. (Genesis 3:4)

The wicked will not care that they are separated from God forever. They would go back to their old ways even if given a chance in the new world. (Isaiah 26:10) And why torture them forever? That makes God seem like a cruel sadist. It is much better and more merciful to just put the wicked to sleep forever. Eradicate them.

And the Bible does not teach a literal hell-fire. If you want to know more, it is available.

 

[KingdomRose]

scripture?

21st Century New Testament:

"But that the dead will be raised, also Moses disclosed at the thornbush as he is saying: 'YHWH, the God of Abraham and God of Isaac and God of Jacob, but is not a God of the dead but of the living; for all to him are living." (Luke 20:38)

We notice that TO GOD they are living, because they are in his memory in detail.

I also consider Matthew 10:29-31 in the NAB:

"Are not two sparrows sold for a small coin? Yet not one of them falls to the ground without your Father's knowledge. Even all the hairs of your head are counted. So do not be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows."

In this I see clearly the love and detail-orientedness of God. He sees the birds that fall. He sees us when we fall in death, and he puts all of the details of us in his memory, including the number of hairs we had!

 

[KingdomRose]

Adolph Hitler will be awake at the end of the 1000 years and will repent

when he realizes what he has done to God's Children.

We don't know about Adolph Hitler. He might not be resurrected back to life. He was horrendously evil. But that's up to Jehovah. If Hitler is brought back, he might not repent. Perhaps he really liked killing people. We just don't know.

 

[lifeisgood]

lifeisgood,
re: "If I understood you correctly, you believe that nonexistence is harsh enough punishment for Adolph Hitler for the killing of 11+ million people, from my example. That for me would be a reward, not a punishment."

What if after someone had killed 11+ million people they came to meet the supreme being's requirements for salvation? Wouldn't that mean that not only were they not punished with eternal non-conscious death, but that they actually got away scott free from any kind of punishment at all?

I doubt that someone who assassinated 11+ million people would come to believe in Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary.

 

[lifeisgood]

No, I think you have to rethink your position. When we are dead, we are actually dead! Satan said we wouldn't be, but dead means dead---the opposite of life. How awkward to really believe that when we die we are really alive. Satan smiles over that one. (Genesis 3:4)

My body will die and go to the grave.
Me, I, and myself, will go to be in God's presence.

Those who, while alive, reject Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary as God's only way of salvation will not be in God's presence.

The wicked will not care that they are separated from God forever. They would go back to their old ways even if given a chance in the new world. (Isaiah 26:10) And why torture them forever? That makes God seem like a cruel sadist. It is much better and more merciful to just put the wicked to sleep forever. Eradicate them.

God does not torture anybody.
Hell was created for the devil and his minions.

Men/women will go to hell all on their own volition, for God has provided the way of Salvation - believe Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary.

God's way of Salvation rejected, hell is the destination.
God's way of Salvation accepted, God's presence is the destination.

The ones who choose to reject God's only way of salvation, choosing to be where they want to be, which is separated from God, which is hell, will torture themselves, then knowing that what they thought was not is and what they thought was is not.

And the Bible does not teach a literal hell-fire. If you want to know more, it is available.

Hell does not have to have fire to be hell.

 

[lifeisgood]

What?! Hitler is ALIVE?!!
I guess we need to find him and try him for his war crimes.
What evidence do you have that Hitler is alive?

Yes, Hitler is alive.
Too late for that now.
He is as alive as you and I will be when we get separated from our physical body by death.

Death does not mean "remain alive instead of dead". What evidence do you have that "death does not mean cessation of existence"?

Dead means your body will go to the grave.
You, on the other hand, will continue to live forever.

I will accept Scripture as evidence, if you have any.

Did not Stephen said he saw the spiritual world, while being stoned to death?

I was also thinking of:
Widow of Zarephath's son
(I Ki 17:17-24) raised by Elijah

Shunamite's son
(II Ki 4:20-37) raised by Elisha

Man tossed into Elisha's tomb
(II Ki 13:21) raised by God's Spirit

Widow of Nain's son
(Lk 7:11-16) raised by Jesus

Synagogue ruler Jairus' 12-year-old daughter
(Mk 5:35-43) raised by Jesus

Lazarus
(Jn 11:1-44) raised by Jesus

Tabitha also known as Dorcas
(Acts 9:36-41) raised by Peter

Eutychus
(Acts 20:7-12) raised by Paul

Men raised upon Jesus' death
(Mt 27:51-53) raised by God

After you perish, you will be dead. You would need to be resurrected in order to be alive again. I don't know what you mean by "continue to exist". Certainly after you die, you will continue to exist as a dead person. If you think that you will be alive without being resurrected, then what do you believe the resurrection is for?

Resurrection is for the dead physical body to be reunited with the spirit.

Some to present themselves in the Bema Seat of Christ to receive rewards, for all their sins have already been paid by Jesus Christ on the Cross of Calvary.

Some to present themselves in the great white throne to receive their punishment for rejecting God's only way of salvation.

Let me ask you a rhetorical question. Please don't do this. But I would like you to answer my rhetorical question. Here it is: If being completely dead is a "reward" why don't you kill yourself right now? The fact that you will not do this is proof that you don't really believe that nonexistence is a reward. I'm getting a little tired of people claiming that they think that nonexistence is a reward when they really don't believe that at all.

The reason why I would not commit suicide is because suicide is against God.

Suicide is self-murder and God said thou shalt not murder.

One who has perished does not realize anything. I just believe what the Bible says. I don't redefine "perish" to mean "not perished".

I guess those who will be under the throne of God asking him when he will judge their deaths don’t know anything either.

Okay, but the Bible says that the wages of sin is death, so the punishment that Hitler pays, according to the Bible, is death. You can hope for something other than what the Bible says, but that doesn't mean that God will torture anyone to please you.

Every single person in the world will die, even believers.

God does not torture anyone.

Okay, but I just believe what Jesus Christ said: "Fear the one who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna". If you are correct, that hell is being separated from God for eternity, then Jesus Christ was wrong that the body and soul will be destroyed.

To destroy (ἀπολέσαι). The class of words to which this belongs denotes "utter and hopeless ruin; but they convey no idea whether the ruined object ceases to exist or continues a worthless existence" (Professor Agar Beet, in Expositor, IV. 1:28).

You emphasized it enough. I would like you to consider an alternative to God torturing sinners for all eternity. "The wicked will perish...The wicked will be no more...The soul who sins shall die...They will pay the penalty of eternal destruction...For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord...For God so loved the world that he gave his only son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but will have eternal life". If you believe this, you will be believing EXACTLY what the Bible says. The references are Psalm 37:10, Psalm 37:20, Ezekiel 18:4, 2 Thessalonians 1:9, Romans 6:23, and John 3:16.

Please consider this: God does not torture anybody.

 

[CherubRam]

Unlike me? I too realize that men have tampered with the Scriptures. Big time. I've read such respected Bible scholars as Bart Ehrman, Jason BeDuhn, Anthony F. Buzzard, Charles F. Hunting, Robert Young, and many more. Taking God's name (YHWH) out of the Bible is a very big tampering job. Then you have such audacious tamperings as Philippians 2:6; John 8:58; Hebrews 1:8; I Timothy 3:16; Titus 2:13; John 1:1 and many others.....Yet the true message can be discerned.

I agree with you. The main message is still there.

 

[glorydaz]

That's big font. Are you compensating for something?

I've found that some people have a lot to compensate for. Look out....some will even go back and change it to a smaller font before they're caught. I don't know why they do what they do? :idunno:

 

[Right Divider]

I've found that some people have a lot to compensate for. Look out....some will even go back and change it to a smaller font before they're caught. I don't know why they do what they do? :idunno:

That's one reason that it's good to use the quote feature. It captures a copy of the original.

 

[Timotheos]

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[ok doser]

...all he ever does is insult people.

not so timmy, my retarded little friend


this post was a direct and irrefutable rebuttal to your retarded nonsense, with no insults present to trouble your retarded little mind:

I know that you would prefer it if the Bible said that God tortures people you mean like this? he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone the Bible does not ever say that the wicked will be tortured alive forever... you mean like this? they have no rest day nor night

 

[iouae]

not so timmy, my retarded little friend


this post was a direct and irrefutable rebuttal to your retarded nonsense, with no insults present to trouble your retarded little mind:

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Sounds like this "no rest" applies while they are still alive and worshipping the beast. And getting trumpet plagues.

 

[ok doser]

so, no rest day or night

Spoiler

for a limited time

???


you must be reading from a different bible :idunno:

 

[Timotheos]

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