God's Truth
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You said I am condemned because I believe we have to do something to be saved, so tell me any scripture which says that I am condemned for obeying.
The "YOU MUST" Religions
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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You said I am condemned because I believe we have to do something to be saved, so tell me any scripture which says that I am condemned for obeying.
beloved57
Well-known member
Yes, you are condemned, if you deny that those Christ died for are not saved/made righteous by His One Obeying Rom 5:19. Now you tell me any scripture which says that you are not condemned for obeying when you deny the obedience of One makes many righteous !
God's Truth
New member
You just added to that scripture things that it does not say.
So now we all see that you cannot find a scripture that says I am condemned for obeying.
You asked me to show you a scripture that says I am not condemned for obeying; here is it:
Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Would you like a scripture now that proves we have to do it all on our own until we are saved?
Here is the scripture that proves Jesus saves those who struggle violently to get to the Father:
Matthew 11:12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence, and violent people have been raiding it.
God's Truth
New member
The scriptures tell us that before God made the world and all creation, he made the plan for salvation through Jesus Christ (Acts 2:23 NIV; 1 Pet 1:20 NIV). From the scriptures, we also learn that God made us with the ability to choose right and wrong, and that he knew we would sin (Ephesians1:4 NIV; Psalm 139:1-6 NIV). God also knew that we who do want to obey would be reconciled to Him and be given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (Isaiah 64:5 NIV; Romans 5:6 NIV; Romans 7:18, 19 NIV; Romans 8:9 NIV).
The Bible tells us why God saves those he saves and not others. Those who God saves want to know him more than they want anything else (Jeremiah 29:13 NIV; Deuteronomy 4:29 NIV; 1 Chronicles 28:9 NIV; John 12:25 NIV; Mark 8:35 NIV; Luke 14:26 NIV). Those saved humbled themselves and admit they are sinners, and they forgive others (2 Chronicles 7:14 NIV; James 4:10 NIV; Acts 26:20 NIV; Matt 5:7; 6:14, 15 NIV). They love God, they believe, obey, confess and repent (John 14:23 NIV; Romans 10:10 NIV; Acts 2:38 NIV; Acts 5:32 NIV; 10:44 NIV; 11:14 NIV; 19:2 NIV). They called out to the Lord to save them (Romans 10:13 NIV). They hear the truth and want to be reconciled to God so much so that they get forceful about it. They do not give up, give out, or give in. They stop doubting. They submit to God. They resist the devil (Matthew 11:12 NIV; Luke 8:4-15 NIV; 11:7-8 NIV; 16:16 NIV; John 14:9 NIV; 20:27 NIV; James 4:7 NIV). They trust God and are perfected in his love (Psalm 118:6 NIV; Proverbs 3:5 NIV; Jeremiah 17:7 NIV; 1 John 4:12 NIV; 4:18 NIV; Romans 5:5 NIV; 8:15 NIV; 10:11NIV). They live on every word of God (Matthew 4:4 NIV; 2 Pet 1:5; 3:18 NIV). They overcome this world by faith in Jesus (Genesis 32:28 NIV; 1 John 5:5 NIV; Revelation 21:7 NIV).
God wants all to turn to him; he wants all saved. God wants men to seek him, and he is not far from each one of us (Acts 17:27 NIV; 2 Pet 3:9 NIV; John 3:17 NIV; Ezekiel 18:23 NIV; 1 Timothy 2:3, 4 NIV; 4:10 NIV; Titus 2:11 NIV; 1 John 2:2 NIV). The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!” And let him who hears say, "Come!” Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life (Revelation 22:17 NIV).
The Bible tells us why God saves those he saves and not others. Those who God saves want to know him more than they want anything else (Jeremiah 29:13 NIV; Deuteronomy 4:29 NIV; 1 Chronicles 28:9 NIV; John 12:25 NIV; Mark 8:35 NIV; Luke 14:26 NIV). Those saved humbled themselves and admit they are sinners, and they forgive others (2 Chronicles 7:14 NIV; James 4:10 NIV; Acts 26:20 NIV; Matt 5:7; 6:14, 15 NIV). They love God, they believe, obey, confess and repent (John 14:23 NIV; Romans 10:10 NIV; Acts 2:38 NIV; Acts 5:32 NIV; 10:44 NIV; 11:14 NIV; 19:2 NIV). They called out to the Lord to save them (Romans 10:13 NIV). They hear the truth and want to be reconciled to God so much so that they get forceful about it. They do not give up, give out, or give in. They stop doubting. They submit to God. They resist the devil (Matthew 11:12 NIV; Luke 8:4-15 NIV; 11:7-8 NIV; 16:16 NIV; John 14:9 NIV; 20:27 NIV; James 4:7 NIV). They trust God and are perfected in his love (Psalm 118:6 NIV; Proverbs 3:5 NIV; Jeremiah 17:7 NIV; 1 John 4:12 NIV; 4:18 NIV; Romans 5:5 NIV; 8:15 NIV; 10:11NIV). They live on every word of God (Matthew 4:4 NIV; 2 Pet 1:5; 3:18 NIV). They overcome this world by faith in Jesus (Genesis 32:28 NIV; 1 John 5:5 NIV; Revelation 21:7 NIV).
God wants all to turn to him; he wants all saved. God wants men to seek him, and he is not far from each one of us (Acts 17:27 NIV; 2 Pet 3:9 NIV; John 3:17 NIV; Ezekiel 18:23 NIV; 1 Timothy 2:3, 4 NIV; 4:10 NIV; Titus 2:11 NIV; 1 John 2:2 NIV). The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!” And let him who hears say, "Come!” Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life (Revelation 22:17 NIV).
beloved57
Well-known member
You are condemned because you don't believe on the Son Jn 3:18
Nang
TOL Subscriber
No, I am saying that obedience apart from being regenerated, cannot save. Justification comes by faith alone, and faith is defined as resting (believing) in the sinless obedience/righteousness of Jesus Christ alone.
If a person must obey to get saved and obey to stay saved, whose righteousness is that person really trusting? They are depending on themselves and their obedience . . not in the righteousness of God.
A regenerated soul, whose heart is changed by the power of the Holy Spirit to truly love God, will rest in God and depend upon His cross work for everlasting life. That is faith.
And faith is active; manifesting the new indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, and producing a new desire to live holy as God is holy. This results in obedience, which clothes the believer with Christ's righteousness.
We are never clothed with the righteousness of Christ. The righteousness of Christ is at the right hand of God in heaven. Jesus is meditating his righteousness in our name and on our behalf, 1 Timothy 2:5.
God's Truth
New member
I am not condemned. I believe and obey Jesus.
God's Truth
New member
Regenerated means one has received the Holy Spirit.
As for obedience apart from being saved, it is how one is saved.
Show one scripture anywhere that says God saves those who do not first believe.
Justification comes by faith in believing that Jesus' blood cleans you of the sins you repent of, instead of the blood of animals and circumcision, etc.
Listen, you go against being able to have faith and obey anything...so how do you get that obeying to get saved goes against a person trusting?! Trusting is something that you say can't even be done until AFTER you are saved.
Again, you say a person cannot have faith until AFTER they are regenerated/saved. So then, you make a robot and go against all the scriptures where Jesus tells us HOW TO GET SAVED. Your doctrines also claim a person will obey after being saved, but then you say they cannot ever not obey. We are warned to keep obeying.
God's Truth
New member
What?!!! You say we are never clothed with the righteousness of Christ.
Romans 13:14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.
Galatians 3:27
For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Ephesians 4:24
and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
Colossians 3:10
and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its creator.
Colossians 3:12
Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience.
Did you read all those scriptures that say to clothe yourself with Christ?
Do you want to retract what you said?
beloved57
Well-known member
Not the Jesus l know and believe in, you don't. The Jesus l know and believe in made me righteous by His obedience alone Rom 5:19!
God's Truth
New member
So if I am not doing what Jesus says, what difference is it WHEN YOU TELL ME WE CANNOT OBEY?
beloved57
Well-known member
Rom 5:19 !
God's Truth
New member
We have to obey to get saved and to stay saved.
Tell me how you have entered if you have not humbled yourself as a child, repented of your sins, and forgave others?
What does your world feel like to you if you have not done that?
God's Truth
New member
You were taught to misunderstand the filthy rag scripture.
How do you EVER get that obeying God is as a filthy rag?!
The Jews who had to do a righteous act of giving a sin offering, which included offering BLOOD, God did not like it that they would sin then give a sin offering and not really be sorry for their sins; that made the blood offering as a menstrual bloody rag offering. Not being truly sorry for the sin is what made the righteous act of sacrificing animals for their blood as a filthy rag.
Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
Our righteous act of FAITH in Jesus is a filthy rag if we do not OBEY HIM.
beloved57
Well-known member
Im saved, made righteous, by Christ's Obedience Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Sooooo. You don't obey him, but think that you do. Which make you "The Chief of all hypocrites".
God's Truth
New member
The two half siblings are the same when it comes to ignoring the scriptures I gave and the explanations.
beloved57
Well-known member
Im saved, made righteous, by Christ's Obedience Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.