The Wrath of God

[Robert Pate]

You realize even traffic laws have two aspects...1) the law which is “Don't Park on sidewalks”...and 2) the ordinance which is the ticket and how much you have to pay WHEN YOU DO...

The law is not against us as we the people like to walk on the sidewalk but the ordinance is against the one who does NOT care what the people want and parks on the sidewalk...

What was abolished was the curse, the debt, the ticket...found in ordinances...because it was paid off by Him...however it doesn’t mean you get to park on the sidewalk...BECAUSE THE TRAFFIC LAW REMAINS

but because your ticket was paid off you are so grateful you wish to never park on the sidewalk again...

And someday when heaven and earth pass away the traffic law will no longer be necessary as we will not even be driving...

You really struggle with reading Paul...understanding him...

Maybe hearing someone else explain it?

https://youtu.be/g2t_IoGR-fo

I understand Paul completely.

Paul said that the law made him sin, Romans 7:7-12. The more you are told not to do something the more you will want to do it. I am not under the law, no, not Moses law, Christ law or any law. I am God's free man in Jesus Christ. It is only when you are free from the law that you can establish the law and live above the law. Living by the Spirit is much higher than living by the law.

 

[clefty]

I understand Paul completely.

Paul said that the law made him sin, Romans 7:7-12. The more you are told not to do something the more you will want to do it. I am not under the law, no, not Moses law, Christ law or any law. I am God's free man in Jesus Christ. It is only when you are free from the law that you can establish the law and live above the law. Living by the Spirit is much higher than living by the law.

Free man eh?

Not under any law eh?

No natural laws for you eh?

Boohoo! gravity make you fall?

You sound more like the lawless one...

So you live the exactly as you did before you were “in Him”? Make the same choices do the same things think the same thoughts...

Nobody noticed a difference...

Understandable...but not Paul’s teaching and nor what He exemplified...faith does NOT void the Law

Cursed is anyone who does NOT do them...in Him they WANT to DO them follow Him His Way...even Paul confessed “but my flesh is weak...I do not do”...

And he encouraged we persevere and finish the race...

Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF His Son

 

[Robert Pate]

Free man eh?

Not under any law eh?

No natural laws for you eh?

Boohoo! gravity make you fall?

You sound more like the lawless one...

So you live the exactly as you did before you were “in Him”? Make the same choices do the same things think the same thoughts...

Nobody noticed a difference...

Understandable...but not Paul’s teaching and nor what He exemplified...faith does NOT void the Law

Cursed is anyone who does NOT do them...in Him they WANT to DO them follow Him His Way...even Paul confessed “but my flesh is weak...I do not do”...

And he encouraged we persevere and finish the race...

Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF His Son

You will never understand what I am talking about because you don't know or understand the Gospel. All that you know is religion.

 

[clefty]

You will never understand what I am talking about because you don't know or understand the Gospel. All that you know is religion.

Oh rest assured...I understand what you are talking about and would expect you to exhibit much the same as those who also believe “do what thou whilst”

And the religion I am learning is Him, His, His way...

The faith OF...not just faith in...

 

[Robert Pate]

While you are wearing yourself out trying to be like Christ. I am already "In Christ" resting in him and his Gospel, Hebrews 4:10.

 

[clefty]

While you are wearing yourself out trying to be like Christ. I am already "In Christ" resting in him and his Gospel, Hebrews 4:10.

Your fruits will show it...

So far they aren’t even in the same family...impossible to graft...

 

[Robert Pate]

Your fruits will show it...

So far they aren’t even in the same family...impossible to graft...

The law has been fulfilled and abolished, Ephesians 2:15. All sin has been atoned for, 1 John 2:2.

All that Jesus has done he did for our justification. God now sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ". Why would anyone want to live under the law in the light of the Gospel? Living by rules and laws is a denial of the Gospel and justification by faith.

 

[clefty]

The law has been fulfilled and abolished, Ephesians 2:15.

you still dont understand the difference between a traffic law and a ticket do you...

All sin has been atoned for, 1 John 2:2.

does not mean all sin has been committed...tomorrow hasint arrived yet...and sin will occur tomorrow because the law points it out...neat right?

All that Jesus has done he did for our justification. God now sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ". Why would anyone want to live under the law in the light of the Gospel? Living by rules and laws is a denial of the Gospel and justification by faith.

The gospel was entrusted to those who died to their former selves and picked up their cross to follow Him His way...

 

[Robert Pate]

you still dont understand the difference between a traffic law and a ticket do you...

does not mean all sin has been committed...tomorrow hasint arrived yet...and sin will occur tomorrow because the law points it out...neat right?





The gospel was entrusted to those who died to their former selves and picked up their cross to follow Him His way...

No, the Gospel belongs to those who believe that Jesus can save them from their sins.

"Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

 

[clefty]

No, the Gospel belongs to those who believe that Jesus can save them from their sins.

if the cross abolished sin...its been done away with for 2000+ years...who can know sin? Let alone their need of salvation?

"Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

Yup they shall be saved...and then what?

Keep living as they did before?

Witness to no one with a life transformed and in accordance to Him His Faith and not of this world?

 

[Robert Pate]

if the cross abolished sin...its been done away with for 2000+ years...who can know sin? Let alone their need of salvation?



Yup they shall be saved...and then what?

Keep living as they did before?

Witness to no one with a life transformed and in accordance to Him His Faith and not of this world?

You give no credit to the Holy Spirit. The law has been replaced by the Holy Spirit. You can read about that in Hebrews 8:6-13.

 

[clefty]

You give no credit to the Holy Spirit. The law has been replaced by the Holy Spirit. You can read about that in Hebrews 8:6-13.

Lol...the law replaced by the Holy Spirit...which Way do you think the Holy Spirit would lead you...

You think the Holy Spirit would have you do other than the Father’s Will? Divide His House between those that do His will and those that dont?

You are lost in the woods but you have a map...you are lost anyway...hiker comes by and says “I have lived in these woods all my life I can lead you out...follow me”

you think that hiker is going to lead you off the path? BTW the hiker drew the map...

 

[God's Truth]

Nobody wants to talk about the wrath of God. God has emotions, just like us. When he gets mad he exhibits his wrath. If it wasn't for his Son Jesus Christ he would have wrapped up this whole universe in one big ball of fire when Adam sinned. Thankfully, God knew that Adam was going to sin and that Jesus would atone for his sin and the sins of the whole world before the foundation of the world, Revelation 13:8.

For now, God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. Those that are "In Christ" will not experience God's wrath, but those that are not "In Christ" will in the judgment.

"He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that does not believe on the Son shall not see life; BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDES ON HIM" John 3:36.

Paul said that the wrath of God would come upon the "Children of disobedience" Ephesians 5:6 also Colossians 3:6 and then he said that the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, WHO HOLD THE TRUTH IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, Romans 1:18. That would include all of the cults and all religions that have not obeyed the Gospel of Jesus Christ, Romans 10:16. To obey the Gospel means to cease from your own works or religion and to rest or trust in the work of Christ for your salvation.

"For we which do believe have entered into HIS REST, as he has said, As I have sworn in my wrath, IF THEY SHALL NOT ENTER INTO MY REST: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world" Hebrews 4:3.

This scripture also pertains to the Israelites that were disobedient in the wilderness and would not enter into the promised land because of unbelief and disobedience, Hebrews 3:10. What it amounts to is do you believe God? God sends Jesus into the world to be our savior. All that Jesus is and all that Jesus does is for our justification and our salvation. By faith in him and in his Gospel we have eternal life, John 3:16. Do you believe God? If you believe God, then it is the Gospel plus nothing. If it is the Gospel plus something, then it is no longer the Gospel and you have not entered into his rest.

Those not saved will suffer God's wrath; even those who believe but have lived in sin will suffer God's wrath and must repent. They are of the only ones who do repent when the wrath comes.

 

[clefty]

Nobody wants to talk about the wrath of God. God has emotions, just like us. When he gets mad he exhibits his wrath. If it wasn't for his Son Jesus Christ he would have wrapped up this whole universe in one big ball of fire when Adam sinned. Thankfully, God knew that Adam was going to sin and that Jesus would atone for his sin and the sins of the whole world before the foundation of the world, Revelation 13:8.

For now, God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. Those that are "In Christ" will not experience God's wrath, but those that are not "In Christ" will in the judgment.

"He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that does not believe on the Son shall not see life; BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDES ON HIM" John 3:36.

Paul said that the wrath of God would come upon the "Children of disobedience" Ephesians 5:6 also Colossians 3:6 and then he said that the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, WHO HOLD THE TRUTH IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, Romans 1:18. That would include all of the cults and all religions that have not obeyed the Gospel of Jesus Christ, Romans 10:16. To obey the Gospel means to cease from your own works or religion and to rest or trust in the work of Christ for your salvation.

"For we which do believe have entered into HIS REST, as he has said, As I have sworn in my wrath, IF THEY SHALL NOT ENTER INTO MY REST: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world" Hebrews 4:3.

This scripture also pertains to the Israelites that were disobedient in the wilderness and would not enter into the promised land because of unbelief and disobedience, Hebrews 3:10. What it amounts to is do you believe God? God sends Jesus into the world to be our savior. All that Jesus is and all that Jesus does is for our justification and our salvation. By faith in him and in his Gospel we have eternal life, John 3:16. Do you believe God? If you believe God, then it is the Gospel plus nothing. If it is the Gospel plus something, then it is no longer the Gospel and you have not entered into his rest.

What you ignore and reject is those that left Israel left by faith...and were saved...repeatedly...but STILL they did NOT enter the promised land...as they lost their temporal salvation due to losing faith no longer believing and thus disobedient...but they were initially saved

Faith without works is INDEED dead...we must persevere...run and finish the race encourages Paul...once in Him we follow Him JUST AS...as He instructed and did...

His House His Rest is provided by His Law...it’s His House rules...and once we are in it we no longer have to do chores we WANT to...it’s our house now by Law

You wish to destroy this Law and divide His House...

Might I suggest you move to the “do what thou whilst...anything goes...no rules here” house?

Will miss you but you would be happier there...no required rest keeping there either

 

[Robert Pate]

What you ignore and reject is those that left Israel left by faith...and were saved...repeatedly...but STILL they did NOT enter the promised land...as they lost their temporal salvation due to losing faith no longer believing and thus disobedient...but they were initially saved

Faith without works is INDEED dead...we must persevere...run and finish the race encourages Paul...once in Him we follow Him JUST AS...as He instructed and did...

His House His Rest is provided by His Law...it’s His House rules...and once we are in it we no longer have to do chores we WANT to...it’s our house now by Law

You wish to destroy this Law and divide His House...

Might I suggest you move to the “do what thou whilst...anything goes...no rules here” house?

Will miss you but you would be happier there...no required rest keeping there either

Like I said on another thread you give absolutely no credit to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Christians guide and keeper, not the law. This is why the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. The law has been replaced by the Holy Spirit. Under the New Covenant "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17. And by the Spirit.

 

[clefty]

Like I said on another thread you give absolutely no credit to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Christians guide and keeper, not the law.

there are false spirits happily guiding and keeping those not according to Him His way...this Holy Spirit is indeed the guide...the map remains to prove it...

This is why the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15.

so you didnt study the difference the law of traffic and the law of ticket...one is the will of the giver the other the law of repayment...

Interesting factoid: ordnance as in military weaponry stems from the legal term ordinance...now knowing that remember the Law is not against you but the ordinance for breaking it is coming right at you...

That bullet to your head was abolished at the cross...not the Law demanding repayment prior restoration

The law has been replaced by the Holy Spirit.

nope...the Holy Spirit helps you keep it...is why its such a COMFORTER...He keeps you faithful...IN HIM...covered from the Wrath and His divine ordnance...

Under the New Covenant "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17.

as was first quoted in the OT...lol...and Abraham a hero of it...the Hebrews Israel had faith and were saved BEFORE they even knew the Law...even Noah had faith first and then was saved...by his work on the ark...lol

And by the Spirit.

That New Covenant Spirit still had His followers hurry to bury Him to keep the Sabbath...Paul to continue to do so...James intending even the gentiles to keep hearing Moses every Sabbath...Peter keeping kosher...Paul hurrying back to Jerusalem to keep the feast and instructing us to do so...

Yup there it was the Holy Spirit keeping His faithful to His faith...Him His Way...making their good works manifest to bring glory to Yah

 

[clefty]

Like I said on another thread you give absolutely no credit to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Christians guide and keeper, not the law. This is why the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. The law has been replaced by the Holy Spirit. Under the New Covenant "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17. And by the Spirit.

The Wrath being the topic of this thread is exactly proof the “just shall live by faith” was already in the OT...

The Wrath was to the kill first born of all of those who did not believe they were descendants of Abraham or in Israel’s God being mightier than Egypts...

However the faith this Wrath would come and kill COMPELLED them then to works...to obedience to rules like the killing of a spotless lamb after keeping it a designated time period and then the sprinkling of its blood on 2 side posts and on the lintel of the houses...do you see all the works which FOLLOWED the faith which was first?

I imagine you would be the Hebrew tired of the rules sprinkling the 2 doorposts but ignoring the lintel as it was “too much work...why bother? Faith is enough”...hahaha

This Wrath which says “WHEN I SEE I WILL PASS OVER” sees the sign which confirms the faith prior...and so they live...

And again...all of Israel (and some foreigners joining) were saved from sin/slavery/Egypt were saved for their FAITH not even knowing of the LAW...

But when the Law was revealed they wished to keep it (well...) for what was ALREADY done for them and by their faith...not one worked to earn freedom...

And finally, this blood sacrifice for the Wrath to pass over was a gratitude offering not even a sin offering...the irony...not about saving or to be justified at all...but gratitude for being saved first

Israel was saved because they had faith in the inheritance LAW made to their father Abraham...a promise given again for his FAITH...Israel’s faith they were chosen by promise was possible by LAW...no proof just do you believe you are descendant...even foreigners were under the same law by the law of ADOPTION

And here you distort and twist everything to prattle on about OT Laws being abolished...

No law? No adoption...no grafting...no Holy Spirit guiding you as there is no salvation...you reject Its authority and authorization...

You are lawless...

You are aware how laws authorize right?

The Lord of London is given authority by the city of London right?

The Lord of the Rings is given power by the rings yes?

The Lord of the flies...

Same with Lord of the Sabbath...the Law affirms the Giver...is why we are to establish it...

The Wrath passes over the faithful which are obedient...is why they live...is why He is not only god but a good God...

 

[Robert Pate]

clefty.


It appears to me that you have not entered into "His Rest" and that you are trying to be good enough to be saved by keeping the commandments.

The law will not make you righteous. The law will damn you to hell.

Paul wrote, "For we which have believed do enter into HIS REST" Hebrews 4:3. If you don't enter into his rest you will be under his wrath.

We rest in what Jesus has accomplished in our name and on our behalf, Hebrews 4:9, 10.

 

[clefty]

clefty.


It appears to me that you have not entered into "His Rest" and that you are trying to be good enough to be saved by keeping the commandments.

The law will not make you righteous. The law will damn you to hell.

Paul wrote, "For we which have believed do enter into HIS REST" Hebrews 4:3. If you don't enter into his rest you will be under his wrath.

We rest in what Jesus has accomplished in our name and on our behalf, Hebrews 4:9, 10.

Robert I hope you read scripture better than my posts...

But from what I see it is doubtful...

How many more times do I have to repeat...I want to do works His works prepared for me and BECAUSE I HAVE ALREADY BEEN SAVED BY WHAT HE DID AND DOES FOR ME...

Can’t repeat it enough...IF YOU LOVE ME...DO SOMETHING NOT JUST BELIEVE

The just shall live by faith...and they will know you by your fruits...His Way His faith

 

[God's Truth]

Robert I hope you read scripture better than my posts...

But from what I see it is doubtful...

How many more times do I have to repeat...I want to do works His works prepared for me and BECAUSE I HAVE ALREADY BEEN SAVED BY WHAT HE DID AND DOES FOR ME...

Can’t repeat it enough...IF YOU LOVE ME...DO SOMETHING NOT JUST BELIEVE

The just shall live by faith...and they will know you by your fruits...His Way His faith

The way it looks is that Robert Pate is going to find out the hard way.

I did notice that you are as so many, and that is that you are afraid to say you believed and obeyed to get saved.

We have to believe and repent of our sins when we want to be saved.

It is not shameful and it is not the 'not of by works' Paul speaks of.

Paul is speaking of the works of the law which are the purification/ceremonial works.

Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.

Faith alone is mentioned one time in the KJV, and it is to tell us what kind of faith not to have.

That dead faith is not saving faith, it really is dead.