ECT The whole Tribulation period is the wrath of God
- Thread starter musterion
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Yep.
Deuteronomy 4:23 Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee. 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God. 4:25 When thou shalt beget children, and children's children, and ye shall have remained long in the land, and shall corrupt yourselves, and make a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, and shall do evil in the sight of the LORD thy God, to provoke him to anger: 4:26 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed. 4:27 And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you. 4:28 And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell. 4:29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul. 4:30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice; 4:31 (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God; ) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.
Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap: 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness. 3:4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years. 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts. 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Interplanner
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The wrath on Israel was in the calamity of the 6th decade. The wrath on the rest of the world will follow the day of judgement and be eternal. There are no human events that could contain enough wrath or distribute it rightly.
musterion
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No. Pay attention because you'd better be clear on this.
Israel has been like the rest of the Gentile world since Acts 28...written off, no distinction, yet both EQUALLY under grace, with every individual subject to the terms of the Gospel of the grace of God. This was the whole point of Paul's ministry.
So to insist that 70 was God's wrath makes Him a respecter of persons, pouring out His wrath selectively on only ONE people who are no more lost than any other.
Preterism reverses, and in reversing denies, everything Paul said God desires under this dispensation of grace.
You had best repent of making Him a liar.
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Cross Reference
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After the tribulation the wrath of God is poured out upon the ungodly people who did the persecuting, including Satan.
Very easy to understand from the scriptures.
Very easy to understand from the scriptures.
SaulToPaul 2
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Yikes.
Interplanner
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Then you don't know Luke 19 and 21 which are transcripted from Paul. The time of judgement in fulfillment of all that was written (about Israel). The reason, Paul says, that we can say that God does not have favorites, is not the division of wrath at two locations. It is because he will be fair in dealing with both. Rom 2 says over and over, the Jew first and then the Gentiles.
The worldwide judgement was supposed to be right after the unusual turmoil in Israel, but was/has been delayed.
Interplanner
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Luke came on board Paul's group in Acts 14 "We" appears for the first time.
2, his two introductions to his two pieces tell us that he is writing to an attorney, and that person is going to represent Paul if needed to Roman administrators. To show that Paul is not fomenting rebellion, even though he calls Roman administration to repentance and righteousness.
thus, material that is uniquely Lukan is transcription from Paul's teaching.
This is why Paul everywhere treats the day of judgement as happening right after the destruction of Israel, and that is due any day. This is why 1 Thess 2 says the wrath of God on Israel is completed--even before the events of 66+, because he knew what Christ meant in Lk 19 and 21. And why--it's rejection and interference with the mission of the Gospel to the nations. It says this in exactly the same sense as 'your house is desolate' in Mt 23 etc.
2, his two introductions to his two pieces tell us that he is writing to an attorney, and that person is going to represent Paul if needed to Roman administrators. To show that Paul is not fomenting rebellion, even though he calls Roman administration to repentance and righteousness.
thus, material that is uniquely Lukan is transcription from Paul's teaching.
This is why Paul everywhere treats the day of judgement as happening right after the destruction of Israel, and that is due any day. This is why 1 Thess 2 says the wrath of God on Israel is completed--even before the events of 66+, because he knew what Christ meant in Lk 19 and 21. And why--it's rejection and interference with the mission of the Gospel to the nations. It says this in exactly the same sense as 'your house is desolate' in Mt 23 etc.
iamaberean
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Jerusalem was under the Jews control until 66AD. At this time the Roman army began to surround Jerusalem, this is what scripture said:
Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
So, the great tribulation happened in 66 AD. At this time the Jews had a stockpile of food that would have lasted for years, but there was internal fighting among the Jews and they burned up all the food. This is what brought about total starvation for the city. It was so bad that many turned to cannibalism, eating their own children. The tribulation, then, lasted until 70AD when Jerusalem was totally destroyed by the Romans. That was 3 1/2 years of tribulation.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Not according to ---
2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
2Th 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
iamaberean
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Even though most people don't believe that the tribulation is past, they still know that all predictions of Jesus returning is just another lie the church tries to use to build attendance. The church needs to wise up and start searching for prophecy truth and get rid of dispensation teachers.
The truth is not:
1. Tithing
2. Confessions to men
3. Living for God without obedience to God
There is more, but you get the point I think.
Yep, I got your point - that you are off in that paragragh.
As off as you are on the third of those three points...
Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
iamaberean
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Cross Reference
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I got the point. Your verses are incomplete which pleases Satan to your destruction..
iamaberean
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It is always a surety that the person who only presents his opinion, is wrong.
If one doesn't know scripture, one should remain silent!
There is not a man that can prove, by scripture, that Jesus did not tell his disciples the following:
4. Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples,
Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
So, what does a false prophecy teacher do when they read the above? They ignore it.
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iamaberean
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It is indeed my opinion based upon what you misrepresent and again, to your destruction. I need not back it up. I have you to do that for me.
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