ECT The whole Tribulation period is the wrath of God

[musterion]

Preterists believe that the Jews redemption did draw nigh and indeed came to them when they were slaughtered by Rome. No other way for prets to read it while claiming to believe it.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

The clue would be the fulfillment of this in Christ. In Judaism they thought it was fulfilled through the law which they were so strict about in the Intertestament period and beyond. So in the gospel of John, they are quite insensed to hear that He, Christ, is the manna of life instead of the Law, etc.

Thanks to LA for quoting Gal 3 on this, which is NEVER mentioned that I know of in 2 years of MAD trying to explain themselves. How incompetent and mentally deficient are they?

It is their spirit.

Madists are overcome in a fault by a spirit of deception, and because they love their religion, they act like people defending a cult, and ignoring what Paul said because it does not fit their deception.

Madists claim to be baptized into the Lords own personal body and claims only the Jews are members of His Bride.

LA

 

[whitestone]

It's in the wrath,those who receive the mark of the beast,or the number of his name,or worship the image of the beast,or add to or take away from the words of the prophecy in Revelation are those who will receive the wrath,,,,and 1 Thessalonians 5:9 KJV.

The wrath,the tribulation,the power to overcome the saints,,,if they could see the wrath of God and who does and who does "not receive it" then the events would fall into their order of fulfillment.

 

[Interplanner]

Preterists believe that the Jews redemption did draw nigh and indeed came to them when they were slaughtered by Rome. No other way for prets to read it while claiming to believe it.

There was redemption but it was never to be about the whole group (which can't be done without time-travel). Those who did believe the Christian message avoided the entanglement of joining the zealots against Rome.

 

[Interplanner]

It's in the wrath,those who receive the mark of the beast,or the number of his name,or worship the image of the beast,or add to or take away from the words of the prophecy in Revelation are those who will receive the wrath,,,,and 1 Thessalonians 5:9 KJV.

The wrath,the tribulation,the power to overcome the saints,,,if they could see the wrath of God and who does and who does "not receive it" then the events would fall into their order of fulfillment.

Would fall? They took place in the 1st century. There is only a minor similarity at the end of time, but it has no attachments geographically. Notice that the dragon harrasses the believers in Rev 20, who are everywhere on earth.

 

[whitestone]

Would fall? They took place in the 1st century. There is only a minor similarity at the end of time, but it has no attachments geographically. Notice that the dragon harrasses the believers in Rev 20, who are everywhere on earth.

Revelation 20:4 KJV first group/did not receive mark,name worship image or wrath of God and beheaded for it.,,,, then Revelation 20:9 KJV ,,,,"CAMP OF THE SAINTS" why were they not resurrected in the first Resurrection,who are the saints in the "camp of the saints a 1000 years later?(remember what I keep saying about the Jews in the siege and that they revolted and did not take the mark,printed their own money).

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

It is their spirit.

Madists are overcome in a fault by a spirit of deception, and because they love their religion, they act like people defending a cult, and ignoring what Paul said because it does not fit their deception.

Madists claim to be baptized into the Lords own personal body and claims only the Jews are members of His Bride.

LA

:chuckle:

 

[Cross Reference]

This is the reason for the tribulation:

"And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb".
Revelation 7:14 (KJV)

 

[Interplanner]

This is the reason for the tribulation:

"And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb".
Revelation 7:14 (KJV)

The reason for it? The reason for it is that the leader of the 'rebellion that desolates' didn't want to have or help Israel join the mission of God and decided to fight messianically for the land. A pathetic failure.

The verse above is not the reason FOR it. It is an explanation of who those people were to John. They were the Jewish Christians who were killed during the rebellion against Rome for not joining.

Israel was not subjected to wrath for 'killing Christ'--except for that residue of thinking that also rejected God's mission about the message about the death of Christ to the nations. That's the rub. The death had to happen; the destruction of Jerusalem did not.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

The reason for it? The reason for it is that the leader of the 'rebellion that desolates' didn't want to have or help Israel join the mission of God and decided to fight messianically for the land. A pathetic failure.

The verse above is not the reason FOR it. It is an explanation of who those people were to John. They were the Jewish Christians who were killed during the rebellion against Rome for not joining.

Israel was not subjected to wrath for 'killing Christ'--except for that residue of thinking that also rejected God's mission about the message about the death of Christ to the nations. That's the rub. The death had to happen; the destruction of Jerusalem did not.

No.

The great multitude coming out of great tribulation, does not infer that they were killed or even suffering from the great tribulation to the full extent of it, because they repented during it, some very quickly and others later, but certainly any who do not repent are not counted to be any of them.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.


The great multitude are those promised to Abraham and his Seed, and remain alive.

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

LA

 

[Interplanner]

No.

The great multitude coming out of great tribulation, does not infer that they were killed or even suffering from the great tribulation to the full extent of it, because they repented during it, some very quickly and others later, but certainly any who do not repent are not counted to be any of them.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.


The great multitude are those promised to Abraham and his Seed, and remain alive.

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

LA

No to what? I can't tell what you are differing about.

 

[Cross Reference]

No.

The great multitude coming out of great tribulation, does not infer that they were killed or even suffering from the great tribulation to the full extent of it, because they repented during it, some very quickly and others later, but certainly any who do not repent are not counted to be any of them.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.


The great multitude are those promised to Abraham and his Seed, and remain alive.

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

LA

I believe you are overlooking something, LA:

"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled." Revelation 6:9-11 (KJV)

THe 5th seal is part of the "wrath" of God poured out on the ungodly. Dirty robed Christians will go through this time against the ungodly and, no doubt, be affected by it unto repentance; a purifying of their own souls.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I believe you are overlooking something, LA:

"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled." Revelation 6:9-11 (KJV)

THe 5th seal is part of the "wrath" of God poured out on the ungodly. Dirty robed Christians will go through this time against the ungodly and, no doubt, be affected by it unto repentance; a purifying of their own souls.

Those killed are killed for their faith in the past, but there are more to come after the last witness to all nations.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

No to what? I can't tell what you are differing about.

Rev.ch 7 is future.

LA

 

[Cross Reference]

T

hose killed are killed for their faith in the past,

Yes? How far back would you suggest?

but there are more to come after the last witness to all nations.

Where do you get that from since the passages suggests no such thing??

 

[whitestone]

Revelation 7:3 KJV Ephesians 1:13 KJV ,,,something is suppose to happen first and then the wrath can be poured out on those with the mark,number ect? What about those who were killed for their testimony of Christ by the columbine killers or the ones who died for not denying Jesus in Iraq?

 

[Cross Reference]

Revelation 7:3 KJV Ephesians 1:13 KJV ,,,something is suppose to happen first and then the wrath can be poured out on those with the mark,number ect? What about those who were killed for their testimony of Christ by the columbine killers or the ones who died for not denying Jesus in Iraq?

Because of the immensity of the suffering, the Rev. passages strongly suggests to me that it all to be about the 7 year period of the tribulation and the time immediately preceeding it as spoken of by Jesus as being the "beginning of sorrows" written in Matt 24..

 

[whitestone]

Because of the immensity of the suffering, the Rev. passages strongly suggests to me that it all to be about the 7 year period of the tribulation and the time immediately preceeding it as spoken of by Jesus as being the "beginning of sorrows" written in Matt 24..

thats the thing about it(the wrath) if it came in ad70,then everyone who were to be sealed were. But then what about those who believed from ad71 to 2016,do they(us) have the mark of God,or did we live after the cut off date?

Many people say "look see the earthquake in Haiti,thats the wrath of God". Many say that of the tsunami in Indonesia,ww1,ww2,droughts,floods ect. it's easy to say they all are the wrath of God poured out as it says in Revelation.

The thing about it though is that the wrath of God is only poured out on those who received the mark,number worship the Image of the beast ect.. So its not cast on one group(Gods seal) and it is on the other(mark of beast).

That is to say before the wrath can come the image must be worshiped,so the two horned beast has to have come,and the ten horns,and the seventh head ect. So it would make no sense to say there was the wrath being poured out in the earth before the man of sin has come.

 

[Interplanner]

thats the thing about it(the wrath) if it came in ad70,then everyone who were to be sealed were. But then what about those who believed from ad71 to 2016,do they(us) have the mark of God,or did we live after the cut off date?

Many people say "look see the earthquake in Haiti,thats the wrath of God". Many say that of the tsunami in Indonesia,ww1,ww2,droughts,floods ect. it's easy to say they all are the wrath of God poured out as it says in Revelation.

The thing about it though is that the wrath of God is only poured out on those who received the mark,number worship the Image of the beast ect.. So its not cast on one group(Gods seal) and it is on the other(mark of beast).

That is to say before the wrath can come the image must be worshiped,so the two horned beast has to have come,and the ten horns,and the seventh head ect. So it would make no sense to say there was the wrath being poured out in the earth before the man of sin has come.

It is not about such events today at all. You'd end up with such a hodge podge of ideas, that it would make the Bible worthless.

Mt24A is about 1st century Judea and after v29 it is about a worldwide day of judgement which has not yet taken place. It could have been 'right after' the DofJerusalem, but obviously has not; only the Father decides. The Rev was written to console those Jewish Christians going through that 1st century ordeal (the time is at hand, it is coming quickly), and to help them see the victory over the harlot, and her stoning, and the wedding to which all nations were invited.

 

[Cross Reference]

thats the thing about it(the wrath) if it came in ad70,then everyone who were to be sealed were. But then what about those who believed from ad71 to 2016,do they(us) have the mark of God,or did we live after the cut off date?

Many people say "look see the earthquake in Haiti,thats the wrath of God". Many say that of the tsunami in Indonesia,ww1,ww2,droughts,floods ect. it's easy to say they all are the wrath of God poured out as it says in Revelation.

The thing about it though is that the wrath of God is only poured out on those who received the mark,number worship the Image of the beast ect.. So its not cast on one group(Gods seal) and it is on the other(mark of beast).

That is to say before the wrath can come the image must be worshiped,so the two horned beast has to have come,and the ten horns,and the seventh head ect. So it would make no sense to say there was the wrath being poured out in the earth before the man of sin has come.

Without God how can there be blessing from Him? And His protection? So much for Haiti.

When the time comes when He sets about summing up all things in His Son Jesus, those of the church of "the unwise and foolish virgins", will suffer tremendous persecution at the hands of the ungodly who will apply the needed` pressure for them to repent and "clean their white robes". Ungodly people made subject to His wrath for that particular time which Rev. speaks of, will be used of Him as intruments for that purpose. . All of this I believe will constitute the last last half of the seven year period of the tribulation when, as it is written, Satan will seek to destroy the remnant of the seed of the "Woman" after the "Body of Christ" is caught up to Heaven.. Rev 12ff.