The Wedding of Jesus

[Ben Masada]

Could be any number of reasons why he wasn't married. But he was addressed as "Rabbi". Hence, he had to be married.

If there was any other reason, the NT does not mention. But equally, the NT does not say he was not.

I once asked to find out just which authoritative bunch was it that could "officially" grant someone the title of "Rabbi".

The Church or probably the Hellenist former disciple of Paul who wrote the gospel of John.

One was that the use of the word "Rabbi" did not have to limited to any "authorized" title, but could be used of anyone that taught and had a following of their teaching. So if the title did not have to be limited to an "official authorized" title, then it would be OK to address Jesus as Rabbi.

The first to address Jesus as a Rabbi was a famous Pharisee, probably a Professor in the Yeshiva Jesus did his studies for the Rabbinate. (John 3:1-3)

But, back to question of who can officially grant that title .......... what would be your answer?
I would think that if it had anything to due with the ruling class of Jews, it would not be an "official" title granted to Jesus since they despised and rejected Him.

Since the First Century, Rabbis would be graduated in Yeshivas and, at the time of Jesus, the Professors were Pharisees and senior Rabbis akin to a Bishop in the Catholic Church.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Because he did not say what you claim he did. The claim is Christian and Jesus was a Jew. Besides, not a single Jew took part in the writing of the NT. They were all Hellenist former disciples of Paul.

Jesus was born Jewish but He was not a Jew. He was, and is, the Messiah. The passage that I posted makes that quite clear. Look at it again. Jesus did not tell Peter He was the Messiah, God revealed that to Peter and Jesus confirmed it. I have met your challenge. It is now your turn to show us where God said His teachers have to be married. We eagerly await your response.

 

[Ben Masada]

Ben Masada's OP was categorically refuted way back in Post #14. And, of course, Ben did not even attempt a response, let alone a refutation.

END OF THREAD.

Your joke of #14 had the same end of this one. They have caused no reason to laugh.

 

[Ben Masada]

Jesus was born Jewish but He was not a Jew.

You are right. One can be born Jewish and not be a Jew. The name is conversion. There are thousands today. At the time of Prophet Elijah, they were called "Jews-for-Baal." Today they are called "Jews-for-Jesus."

He was, and is, the Messiah. The passage that I posted makes that quite clear. Look at it again.

Jesus was not the Messiah because the Messiah cannot be an individual but Israel the People. "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord. Read Prophet Habakkuk 3:13. Now, Jesus IS not the Messiah because he is dead and, the Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a people before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)

Jesus did not tell Peter He was the Messiah, God revealed that to Peter and Jesus confirmed it. I have met your challenge.

Because Jesus knew he could not have been the Messiah. Then the revelation that Jesus was the Messiah came from Paul if you read II Timothy 2:8.

It is now your turn to show us where God said His teachers have to be married. We eagerly await your response.

I am not going to give you any other answer about being married to be a Rabbi because you are implying that Jesus was a liar to declare that he had come to fulfill all the laws down to the letter, even the dot of the letter as we have in Matthew 5:17-19 and broke the very first commandment to get married and become of one flesh with his wife. (Genesis 2:24)

 

[CabinetMaker]

You are right. One can be born Jewish and not be a Jew. The name is conversion. There are thousands today. At the time of Prophet Elijah, they were called "Jews-for-Baal." Today they are called "Jews-for-Jesus."



Jesus was not the Messiah because the Messiah cannot be an individual but Israel the People.

Where do you get this idea? S I understand it, God had always planned to send a (singular) Savior.

"The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord. Read Prophet Habakkuk 3:13. Now, Jesus IS not the Messiah because he is dead and, the Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a people before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)

Jesus is not dead. He conquered death by rising again. He is very much alive.

Because Jesus knew he could not have been the Messiah. Then the revelation that Jesus was the Messiah came from Paul if you read II Timothy 2:8.

First, Jesus DID know else He could not have confirmed Peters revelation from God. Second, you are taking things out of order. At the time Peter had his revelation regarding Jesus, Paul was not yet a follower of Jesus. Jesus came to Paul much later. Things happened in an order so it behooves us to pay attention t that order.

I am not going to give you any other answer about being married to be a Rabbi because you are implying that Jesus was a liar to declare that he had come to fulfill all the laws down to the letter, even the dot of the letter as we have in Matthew 5:17-19 and broke the very first commandment to get married and become of one flesh with his wife. (Genesis 2:24)

I implied no such thing. Jesus is not a liar, He is the Messiah. He fulfilled all of the law down to the last jot. There is no commandment to get married. IF you do marry, there are commandments for the married. But no commandment to be married.

Now, you wont give me any answer about God commanding His teachers be married because you cannot. You know that the tradition for rabbi's to be married is a man made tradition and not a part of God's law. And you know that that completely undermines your argument.

 

[Cruciform]

Your joke of #14 had the same end of this one. They have caused no reason to laugh.

Too bad you utterly failed to provide any disproof or refutation of the posted material whatsoever (sorry, but bare denial like your comments here doesn't count). Therefore, the cited statements stand exactly as posted.

END OF THREAD.

 

[Ben Masada]

Too bad you utterly failed to provide any disproof or refutation of the posted material whatsoever (sorry, but bare denial like your comments here doesn't count). Therefore, the cited statements stand exactly as posted.

END OF THREAD.

Believe it or not, you reminded us of what the Catholic Church must have done when they sieved out the NT from all references to the fact that Jesus was married. Even Jesus' beloved disciple before Jesus on the cross that Friday afternoon was changed from Mary Magdalene to John against all logical evidences.

 

[Ben Masada]

Where do you get this idea? S I understand it, God had always planned to send a (singular) Savior.

Quote please! I find too hard to take your words for it.

Jesus is not dead. He conquered death by rising again. He is very much alive.

Was there an eyewitness for the bodily resurrection of Jesus? If yes, please mention it.

First, Jesus DID know else He could not have confirmed Peters revelation from God. Second, you are taking things out of order. At the time Peter had his revelation regarding Jesus, Paul was not yet a follower of Jesus. Jesus came to Paul much later. Things happened in an order so it behooves us to pay attention t that order.

Peter's revelation was not from God but from Paul. Read II Timothy 2:8, please!

I implied no such thing. Jesus is not a liar, He is the Messiah. He fulfilled all of the law down to the last jot. There is no commandment to get married. IF you do marry, there are commandments for the married. But no commandment to be married.

Thank you for confirming that Jesus fulfilled ALL the laws down to the last jot. That's a strong evidence that he was a married man if you read Genesis 2:24. By doing so, he had made of himself of the same flesh with Mary Magdalene.

Now, you wont give me any answer about God commanding His teachers be married because you cannot. You know that the tradition for rabbi's to be married is a man made tradition and not a part of God's law. And you know that that completely undermines your argument.

I am going to give you a chance to read the Torah at least for once in a lifetime. High Priests could not officiate as such if any one suffered from a sex mutilation which prevented them from being married. Please, read the books of Torah to find out the references.

 

[Cruciform]

Believe it or not, you reminded us of what the Catholic Church must have done when they sieved out the NT from all references to the fact that Jesus was married. Even Jesus' beloved disciple before Jesus on the cross that Friday afternoon was changed from Mary Magdalene to John against all logical evidences.

Now go ahead and provide documentary proof for these two wholly unsubstantiated claims. Post your proof now.


Back to Post #86.

 

[beameup]

That's not true because the Torah for us is superior to the Mishna or Talmud. No one observes the Law as the Jews do.

The Talmud is full of Jewish old-wives tales about Yeshua of Nazareth. Shall I quote some of these?
The Talmud is the "holy writ" of Judaism as it (supposedly) contains all the wisdom of the "oral law".

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men (oral law). - Matthew 15:8-9

Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honor me, but they have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precepts of men: - Isaiah 29:13

 

[CabinetMaker]

Quote please! I find too hard to take your words for it.



Was there an eyewitness for the bodily resurrection of Jesus? If yes, please mention it.



Peter's revelation was not from God but from Paul. Read II Timothy 2:8, please!



Thank you for confirming that Jesus fulfilled ALL the laws down to the last jot. That's a strong evidence that he was a married man if you read Genesis 2:24. By doing so, he had made of himself of the same flesh with Mary Magdalene.



I am going to give you a chance to read the Torah at least for once in a lifetime. High Priests could not officiate as such if any one suffered from a sex mutilation which prevented them from being married. Please, read the books of Torah to find out the references.

There is no law given by God that requires anybody to be married. You have made a positive claim that there is such a law so it is your responsibility to substantiate your claim.

I predict that you will make no attempt to do so. You will continue to hide behind tactics such as you want me to read the Torah. Even if I did, you would simply claim I read it incorrectly.

Present your evidence or admit that you were wrong. Or just quit posting.

 

[Ben Masada]

The Wedding of Jesus

There is no law given by God that requires anybody to be married. You have made a positive claim that there is such a law so it is your responsibility to substantiate your claim.

You don't want to read the Torah because you are afraid to find out that there is a law given by the Almighty that requires man to be married. I am going to give you it at least to stop you from slandering me. It is in Genesis 2:24. "A man must leave his father and mother and cling to his wife that both become of one flesh." This was the first commandment. If Jesus did not fulfill it, he lied when he said to have come not to abolish the laws but to fulfill them down to the letter, even the dot of the letter. (Matthew 5:17-19)

I predict that you will make no attempt to do so. You will continue to hide behind tactics such as you want me to read the Torah. Even if I did, you would simply claim I read it incorrectly.

I would not claim that you did not read the Torah correctly but that you didn't read it at all.

Present your evidence or admit that you were wrong. Or just quit posting.

I do accept your proposal to quit posting if you quit using a Jew to preach against Judaism. You know rather well that Jesus was a Jew and not a Christian. Use Paul who was a Christian, not Jesus.

 

[Epoisses]

You don't want to read the Torah because you are afraid to find out that there is a law given by the Almighty that requires man to be married. I am going to give you it at least to stop you from slandering me. It is in Genesis 2:24. "A man must leave his father and mother and cling to his wife that both become of one flesh." This was the first commandment. If Jesus did not fulfill it, he lied when he said to have come not to abolish the laws but to fulfill them down to the letter, even the dot of the letter. (Matthew 5:17-19)

Moses said you need to have a circumcised heart. You're not following the Law, Ben! Deut. 30:6

 

[Ben Masada]

Moses said you need to have a circumcised heart. You're not following the Law, Ben! Deut. 30:6

Sorry to disappoint you but Deuteronomy 30:6 has nothing to do with circumcision of the heart but with opening one's heart to love the Lord our God with all our heart. To be circumcised in the heart rather than in the flesh is from the gospel of Paul as an item to promote his Pauline policy of Replacement Theology. Try again!

 

[Epoisses]

Sorry to disappoint you but Deuteronomy 30:6 has nothing to do with circumcision of the heart but with opening one's heart to love the Lord our God with all our heart. To be circumcised with the heart and not with the flesh is from the gospel of Paul as an item to promote his Pauline policy of Replacement Theology.

You're a law breaker and a hypocrite who rejects his own holy books! Read it again.

For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? John 5:46,47

 

[CabinetMaker]

You don't want to read the Torah because you are afraid to find out that there is a law given by the Almighty that requires man to be married. I am going to give you it at least to stop you from slandering me. It is in Genesis 2:24. "A man must leave his father and mother and cling to his wife that both become of one flesh." This was the first commandment. If Jesus did not fulfill it, he lied when he said to have come not to abolish the laws but to fulfill them down to the letter, even the dot of the letter. (Matthew 5:17-19)

The Torah is your Holy Book. You teach it to us and quit complaining that people haven't read it. Show us from the Torah where God said a teacher must be married.

Lets look at Genesis 2 in a bit more detail.
²² Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib^[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. ²³ The man said,
“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”

²⁴ That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

If you critically read that passage, there is no commandment to get married. The passage actually deals with God creating Eve and Adam's appreciation of and commitment to the gift that God had created for him. The passage deals with the first man and the first woman and their relationship. It does issue a command from God that all who serve Him must be married.

I would not claim that you did not read the Torah correctly but that you didn't read it at all.

Given your treatment of Genesis 2, you would claim I read it incorrectly. However, I will offer this link as evidence that Rabbi's are not required to be married. And in case you can follow links, here is an excerpt from the link:

It was certainly very common, but I can't find a requirement in the talmud (which was written in the few hundred years around your target timeframe), and I find one talmudic counter-example: On Kiddushin 71b R. Yehudah of Pumbeditha is asked why his son, R. Yitzchak, is not yet married (and is an adult). Kiddushin 82a does argue that an unmarried man cannot teach children, but this appears to be a concern about the appearance of impropriety, not a question about his ability or knowledge.

I do accept your proposal to quit posting if you quit using a Jew to preach against Judaism. You know rather well that Jesus was a Jew and not a Christian. Use Paul who was a Christian, not Jesus.

Except Jesus was not a Jew, He is the Messiah. Born into a Jewish family and raised Jewish so that He could complete the requirements of the law. Jesus was never just a Jew.

 

[Ben Masada]

The Talmud is full of Jewish old-wives tales about Yeshua of Nazareth. Shall I quote some of these?
The Talmud is the "holy writ" of Judaism as it (supposedly) contains all the wisdom of the "oral law".

No, you are wrong again! The holy writ of Judaism is the Tanach, especially the Torah. The Talmud acts only as a fence around the Torah aka extra-Biblical Literature.

 

[CabinetMaker]

No, you are wrong again! The holy writ of Judaism is the Tanach, especially the Torah. The Talmud acts only as a fence around the Torah aka extra-Biblical Literature.

See Ben. Didn't I would say that you would claim we read it wrong when we tried to answer from your tradition.

 

[Ben Masada]

Except Jesus was not a Jew, He is the Messiah. Born into a Jewish family and raised Jewish so that He could complete the requirements of the law. Jesus was never just a Jew.

Your idea that Jesus was not a Jew is paradoxical. Jesus was born from a Jewish couple, Joseph and Mary, went through all the rituals of a Jew and now you say he was not a Jew! That makes no sense to me but, go on!

Two reasons why Jesus IS not the Messiah. First, because the Messiah cannot be an individual but the People according to the collective concept of Messiah. And second, Jesus is dead and, the Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)

The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we supposed to expect a different Messiah in every generation? Obviously not. Then, we have Prophet Habakkuk who said, "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." (Habakkuk 3:13) That's what Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord, aka Israel, the People, not the individual.

 

[Ben Masada]

See Ben. Didn't I would say that you would claim we read it wrong when we tried to answer from your tradition.

You don't have to read any thing from our tradition. We are discussing Scriptures, the Tanach and the NT, not extra-Biblical Literature. So, let us stick to the Scriptures. When there is nothing else to further discuss in the Scriptures, then perhaps we can try both traditions; mine and yours.