The UFC Thread

[Danoh]

If Cyborg can make weight.
And not get busted for 'roids.

I hate seeing people online call Ronda a coward for not fighting at a higher weight class when she's CHAMPION at 135.
And the fact that she's making more per fight than Cyborg would make in a year of fights.

Ronda has zero reason to fight Cyborg at any other weight class, and since Cyborg ISN'T dominating the weight class she's in (a weight class that isn't even available in the UFC), there's not even really a superfight there for anyone but the hardcore fans who have actually heard of Cyborg.

...as compared to the legions of "casual" fans who are all over the Rousey bandwagon and couldn't care less about Cyborg.

Lol, you read right past what he said - "That fight might go 60 seconds."

 

[Buzzword]

Lol, you read right past what he said - "That fight might go 60 seconds."

Nah, I have no doubt Ronda would destroy her at any weight.
Especially since for years it's been all about Cyborg's puncher's chance vs. Ronda's lack of striking......a weakness which she has almost totally stamped out in her last two fights.

I just keep seeing keyboard warriors criticizing Ronda for not moving up in weight, and it's just idiotic.

 

[Daniel1611]

Nah, I have no doubt Ronda would destroy her at any weight.
Especially since for years it's been all about Cyborg's puncher's chance vs. Ronda's lack of striking......a weakness which she has almost totally stamped out in her last two fights.

I just keep seeing keyboard warriors criticizing Ronda for not moving up in weight, and it's just idiotic.

Word. She's the bantam weight champ. Let cyborg mane weight if she wants a title shot. Rousey would beat her tomorow regardless of weight.

 

[The Berean]

This is what too few people who criticize her realize.

I wasn't criticizing Rousey.

As the daughter of the first American to win a gold medal in Judo in the Olympics who has been training Judo since she was eight years old, combined with world-class striking coaches, she's basically the equivalent of Royce Gracie in a room full of amateur boxers.

Yes, I know Rousey has lots of world class fighting experience. But this doesn't address the lack of talent in women's MMA. The women's talent pool is very shallow.

And she's hella fun to watch.

This is more subjective. She's a great fighter but not that interesting as a personality. She is trying WAY to hard to be "tough" and "hard". It comes across as forced and fake.

People also complain that she wins too fast (oh horror of horrors!) but Olympic Judo doesn't leave much time to work on the ground before the ref stands you back up, so going for a submission requires lighting-fast movements.

Thus her string of wins by armbar.

Critics had pointed out that she just waded in taking punches in order to get the clinch and thus the throw and thus the armbar, but her most recent fights demonstrate much more technical, precise, and powerful strikes and head movement.

So she's STILL GETTING BETTER, while already nearly invincible.
Which I guess people find boring?

I dunno.
I've been a huge fan of women's Judo, and of Judo's application in MMA, for nearly a decade now, so I'm all for as much of Rousey as we can get.

My issue with MMA is the lack of depth. And I don't just mean the women's MMA. Brock Lesnar fought for and won the UFC Heavyweight Championship in just his fourth fight. I'm sorry but that is just silly to me. In boxing, fighters have to work their way up proving themselves by fighting many fights. Mike Tyson fought for the title in his 28th fight. Vitali Klitschko fought for title in his 25th fight. Wladimir Klitschko fought for title in his 25th fight. Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fought for the title in his 18th fight. And these are more modern fighters. In previous era fighters had to wait much longer. Sugar Ray Robinson had to wait until his 76th fight to fight for the title. Rocky Marciano had to wait until his 43rd fight, Jou Louis waited until his 33rd fight.

 

[Buzzword]

My issue with MMA is the lack of depth. And I don't just mean the women's MMA. Brock Lesnar fought for and won the UFC Heavyweight Championship in just his fourth fight. I'm sorry but that is just silly to me. In boxing, fighters have to work their way up proving themselves by fighting many fights. Mike Tyson fought for the title in his 28th fight. Vitali Klitschko fought for title in his 25th fight. Wladimir Klitschko fought for title in his 25th fight. Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fought for the title in his 18th fight. And these are more modern fighters. In previous era fighters had to wait much longer. Sugar Ray Robinson had to wait until his 76th fight to fight for the title. Rocky Marciano had to wait until his 43rd fight, Jou Louis waited until his 33rd fight.

This comes down to there being no single governing body of the sport.

The UFC is considered the best because it and the fighters under it take in the most money.
And because they have absorbed their only real competition over the years.
Thus geared toward maximizing profit, it does not use any kind of arbitrary ranking system.
Fights are booked based on the marketability of fighters, not based upon how many fights or how many wins they have.

I point you to Lyoto Machida's early career for a massive example of this.
No title shot until he was 14-0, because he was content to dominate fights by decision for years, until knocking out Thiago Silva, thus skyrocketing his marketability by having a massive (for the sport) undefeated record AND a highlight-reel KO.

On top of this, some weight classes just attract more talented and pedigreed fighters.
The UFC's heavyweight division (your example) has historically been one of the more shallow divisions, especially in terms of quality fighters, in part because there just aren't that many fighters fighting between 210 and 265 lbs.

On the other side, the UFC's lightweight and light-heavyweight divisions have historically been PACKED with talented, driven fighters, so an individual fighter in those divisions could be expected to have to rack up more wins before fighting for the title.

But even then, it's a factor of marketability.
If choosing a title contender comes down to two fighters with similar records and skills, the fighter with the more visible/flamboyant/outrageous personality will get it.
Probably the ultimate examples of this are Chael Sonnen and Connor McGregor.

Both have trash-talked their way to title fights, and in McGregor's case even trash-talked his way into *maybe* getting semi-handpicked opponents so that his eventual title shot couldn't be stymied and would be that much more exciting.

That neither fighter was considered by hardcore fans to be objectively the best going into their title fight is immaterial compared to their self-marketing.

This has been especially true of fighters who like to play the "heel," to use a pro-wrestling term.

Tito Ortiz' career started with two things:
1) Overwhelming wrestling ability
2) Over-the-top (for the time) trash-talk
Fans tuned in to see him fight en masse, either to see the bad boy win, or see the lout get knocked out.

Brock Lesnar had the same formula, except with an arguably better freestyle wrestling pedigree and a massive size advantage over most of the heavyweight division.
And in Brock's case, we see an addition wrench in the idea that fighters should have to win x-number of times before a title shot:

He beat the champ.

In my view, if you defeat the champion, it doesn't matter how unworthy someone else might have thought you of a title shot.

 

[Danoh]

I wasn't criticizing Rousey.


Yes, I know Rousey has lots of world class fighting experience. But this doesn't address the lack of talent in women's MMA. The women's talent pool is very shallow.


This is more subjective. She's a great fighter but not that interesting as a personality. She is trying WAY to hard to be "tough" and "hard". It comes across as forced and fake.


My issue with MMA is the lack of depth. And I don't just mean the women's MMA. Brock Lesnar fought for and won the UFC Heavyweight Championship in just his fourth fight. I'm sorry but that is just silly to me. In boxing, fighters have to work their way up proving themselves by fighting many fights. Mike Tyson fought for the title in his 28th fight. Vitali Klitschko fought for title in his 25th fight. Wladimir Klitschko fought for title in his 25th fight. Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fought for the title in his 18th fight. And these are more modern fighters. In previous era fighters had to wait much longer. Sugar Ray Robinson had to wait until his 76th fight to fight for the title. Rocky Marciano had to wait until his 43rd fight, Jou Louis waited until his 33rd fight.

Not the same sport - not by a long shot. Given a choice, I'd prefer Judo in a fight over Boxing any day of the week. You get way more and as a much more realistic arsenal for way less time. Now, if you're talking Traditional Karate, well, okay, now there is a waste of time.

 

[patrick jane]

what's the name of that great MMA Russian ? Fedor ? in his prime i'd take him over Jon Jones. when does Jones fight next ? is he still undefeated ?

 

[Buzzword]

what's the name of that great MMA Russian ? Fedor ? in his prime i'd take him over Jon Jones. when does Jones fight next ? is he still undefeated ?

Fedor's supposedly in talks with the UFC to come out of retirement.

Jon Jones can fight again when he gets out of JAIL, which I hope the judge sends him to after he hit a pregnant woman and drugs were found in his car.

 

[Nick M]

She might not be able to beat many men in ufc, but she would wipe the floor with pretty much any man who isnt a trained fighter.

See my point? :dizzy:

Joey Buttfucco. Old, fat, slow, weak, low punching power compared to most men.

Joanie Laurer "Chyna" steroid monster from the WWF who could bench press 300 lbs (once).

Not one punch that the girl threw was effective. Not one. Ignore the feminists that want the woman to win. Rousey is tough in a shallow women's division. She can prove she doesn't have a glass jaw (as x chromosomes give). But that won't happen.

Chyna takes beating from fat, slow, old man

 

[Daniel1611]

Not the same sport - not by a long shot. Given a choice, I'd prefer Judo in a fight over Boxing any day of the week. You get way more and as a much more realistic arsenal for way less time. Now, if you're talking Traditional Karate, well, okay, now there is a waste of time.

When I used to train daily in martial arts I mainly trained in Tang Soo Do, but the jui jitsu I learned was extremely effective. The choke holds I learned are the most effective thing I learned. You will knock someone out within a few seconds like that. People used to pass out during training when we did that.

 

[Danoh]

See my point? :dizzy:

Joey Buttfucco. Old, fat, slow, weak, low punching power compared to most men.

Joanie Laurer "Chyna" steroid monster from the WWF who could bench press 300 lbs (once).

Not one punch that the girl threw was effective. Not one. Ignore the feminists that want the woman to win. Rousey is tough in a shallow women's division. She can prove she doesn't have a glass jaw (as x chromosomes give). But that won't happen.

Chyna takes beating from fat, slow, old man

Oh yeah, she had all kinds of skills. Flailing her arms like some child.

This has nothing to do with the feminists. Rather, with proper understanding of leverage.

I kicked a big guy coming at me crazed on drugs right in the groin. Twice. Nothing. As he continued forward, I turned into him, and used his forward momentum to turn him and slam him into a wall. End of fight.

You post a video of someone absolutely clueless about the simple fact that the bigger, stronger, and heavier the opponent, the easier it is to turn that on them as they come at you.

Either just as they get set to move, or mid way through their move, or at it's very end. Simple physics.

 

[Daniel1611]

See my point? :dizzy:

Joey Buttfucco. Old, fat, slow, weak, low punching power compared to most men.

Joanie Laurer "Chyna" steroid monster from the WWF who could bench press 300 lbs (once).

Not one punch that the girl threw was effective. Not one. Ignore the feminists that want the woman to win. Rousey is tough in a shallow women's division. She can prove she doesn't have a glass jaw (as x chromosomes give). But that won't happen.

Chyna takes beating from fat, slow, old man

There are good fighters in the women's division besides Rousey, like Miesha Tate. Rouse is just better.

 

[Buzzword]

And now a moment of public service from the UFC's #1 star:

Ronda Rousey Donates Title Belt to Judo School in Brazil

 

[Danoh]

I like this old interview of Rhonda:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP4Ce_qLBf0

Like I said, old....