the two witnesses

[chrysostom]

I did not put it into the future.
I recognized that the timing for the prophecy is in the future.
There is a difference.

your interpretation requires a future temple
the abomination is preventing it
it won't happen

 

[Ben Masada]

The two witnesses are end-time saints or prophets who will be given supernatural power from God. The antichrist will be performing miracles, signs and lying wonders so it is only fair that two of God's servants will be given the same power like Moses and Elijah who were given supernatural powers in their day. The witnesses will also by antitypes of Zerubbabel and Joshua who were called by God to rebuild the 2nd temple. There will be lots of construction in the last days with the antichrist rebuilding Jerusalem and the temple to deceive the world. God thru the two witnesses will also be building a temple but it will be a spiritual temple made up of believers. The beginning of Rev. 11 even speaks to this measuring of the temple.

References to the sanctuary and temple are some of the most confusing in scripture because there were so many different applications. Moses built the sanctuary in the wilderness and the more permanent temple was built by Solomon and later rebuilt by Zerubabbel. There is a temple in heaven that is described in Hebrews and Revelation where Jesus ministers as our great high priest. God’s people are referred to individually as a spiritual temple and collectively as a holy city or royal priesthood. Context is the key to knowing what is being described. All three aspects of the temple will be represented in the last days.

The two witnesses is a reference to Israel and Judah still at the time when they existed as two kingdoms. I don't see it as a prophecy but as an analogy since the time when the Tribes split soon after the death of King Solomon and until about 601 when Israel was conquered by Assyria and taken into exile forever. That's when the Lord rejected Israel for good and confirmed the election of Judah to alone remain as the only people before the Lord forever. (Psalm 78;67-70)

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

your interpretation requires a future temple
the abomination is preventing it
it won't happen

The abomination that makes desolate,
not the abomination that stands in the place that was made desolate much earlier.

 

[keypurr]

the two witnesses
are
the church and state

No, I don't buy that.

I lean toward they are Christ and the Holy Spirit.

 

[keypurr]

Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

 

[chrysostom]

did you search your bible for two olive trees?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

the two witnesses
are
the church and state

:chuckle:

 

[chrysostom]

the two witnesses

just search the bible for two olive trees
and
you will find zechariah 4 and zerubbabel who is always associated with joshua

joshua is a priest representing the church
zerubbabel is minister of the state

the two witnesses are the church and state
we have two christian empires

the holy roman empire
and
the byzantine empire

the place is jerusalem
and
control of it ended in 1244

it looks like the holy roman empire to me

back to
the apocalypse

just another piece of the puzzle
-you don't have to understand
-it's okay

 

[beameup]

I think you will find the clue to their identity in Zechariah... and it's not the "usual suspects".

 

[chrysostom]

I think you will find the clue to their identity in Zechariah...

that is where I found it

 

[beameup]

that is where I found it

They are real people and are found in Zechariah, these two men will appear again.

 

[chrysostom]

They are real people and are found in Zechariah.

that would make it history and not prophecy

 

[beameup]

that would make it history and not prophecy

No, they will be back "in person" during the first-half of the 70th Week of Daniel.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

just another piece of the puzzle
-you don't have to understand
-it's okay

:chuckle:

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

two men

:up:

Yes, two men. Not hard to understand, but hard for some (like Chrys) to believe.

 

[chrysostom]

this was a tough one but I still believe it is church and state

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

this was a tough one but I still believe it is church and state

:chuckle:

 

[Ben Masada]

did you search your bible for two olive trees?

Yes, they are Israel and Judah. (Zechariah 4:3,11-14)

 

[DavidK]

This question is for those who interpret the two as two individual people, no those who want to make them institutions.

Jesus said that John the Baptist fulfilled the return of Elijah. He came in the spirit of Elijah.

So why would the two witnesses need to be the literal Enoch and Elijah, or Moses and Elijah, or any returned hero of the faith, as it were?

 

[daqq]

This question is for those who interpret the two as two individual people, no those who want to make them institutions.

Jesus said that John the Baptist fulfilled the return of Elijah. He came in the spirit of Elijah.

So why would the two witnesses need to be the literal Enoch and Elijah, or Moses and Elijah, or any returned hero of the faith, as it were?

Yohanan was the half of the city and the half of the kingdom, that is, the priesthood, (which are nashiym and born of women), and Herod foolishly swears to it when he quotes Ahasuerus from the book of Esther just before Yohanan is beheaded. So they did to Eliyahu as they pleased; just as it is written of him in Daniel 9:26 and Zechariah 14:2, (the nashiym ravished, the houses rifled, and the half of the city into captivity, [the prison of Herod]). You are the light of the world: a city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.