The Sleep of Death in Sheol, the Two Resurrections, and the Lake of Fire Judgment

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Robert Pate's Soul-Sleep Fellow Traveler

Robert Pate's Soul-Sleep Fellow Traveler

And next, how could John 11:12-13 deny soul sleep if in fact Jesus was associating what he said as "sleeping" to mean death, hence why the disciples were confused? Hello?

At long last Robert Pate now has a kindred spirit:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...to-Get-Saved&p=4925042&viewfull=1#post4925042

:AMR:

AMR

 

[cgaviria]

You are presumptuous and full of ego, to judge the state of another's heart.

Christian, your views on Scripture are not the be all and the end all. You are not a modern day prophet so it would behoove you to cut the drama.

What if I am, who are you to say who God will or will not appoint as a prophet? Not that I claim to be one, but I do claim do speak rightly concerning the scriptures. And for this I am hated among you, because in quoting and explaining the scriptures, it shows that you guys are wrong about everything. I do not judge you people, because anyone who speaks blasphemies and false doctrines deserves to die in accordance to the law, but rather, I am pleading with you guys to come to understanding of the truth, that you may repent and have life given by Jesus Christ.

 

[Veritas veritate]

Because there are two altars, one for offerings, and the other for incense. I suggest you read how the tabernacle was setup, which foreshadows these particular realities. Jesus Christ was offered up on the altar of the earth, in which case his blood was poured on the base of altar, which is the ground. The altar of incense, however, is in heaven.


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I am well aware of how the tabernacle was set up. It was set up exactly how it is set up in heaven, both altars included...

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Where do you suppose this altar is? It's certainly not in heaven, as sacrifices are not performed in heaven.

Are you not aware that the Scriptures speak of an altar that is before the throne of God in heaven (Rev.8:3)?

Besides you did not even address the fact that those who are described as being physically dead are not sleeping:

"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" (Rev.6:9-10).​

How long are you going to deny the truth?

 

[cgaviria]

I am well aware of how the tabernacle was set up. It was set up exactly how it is set up in heaven, both altars included...

Nope, obviously you weren't aware since you thought the two altars in Revelation were the same altar. I caught your bluff. Suggesting that an altar of sacrifice where blood is poured exists in heaven is as saying that a kitchen sink exists in the living room. This altar is not in heaven, it is on the earth where Jesus Christ was offered up as sacrifice, and where all the other prophets and apostles were also martyred and their blood also shed on the ground. Learn.

 

[cgaviria]

Are you not aware that the Scriptures speak of an altar that is before the throne of God in heaven (Rev.8:3)?

Besides you did not even address the fact that those who are described as being physically dead are not sleeping:

"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" (Rev.6:9-10).​

How long are you going to deny the truth?

Did you miss the post where I explain that there are two altars, one of sacrifice (earthly) and the other for incense (heavenly)? Catch up.

 

[Eagles Wings]

What if I am, who are you to say who God will or will not appoint as a prophet? Not that I claim to be one, but I do claim do speak rightly concerning the scriptures. And for this I am hated among you, because in quoting and explaining the scriptures, it shows that you guys are wrong about everything. I do not judge you people, because anyone who speaks blasphemies and false doctrines deserves to die in accordance to the law, but rather, I am pleading with you guys to come to understanding of the truth, that you may repent and have life given by Jesus Christ.

The Canon of Scripture is closed and all we need to know of our Lord has already been given us in His Word. The Holy Spirit will always direct the beloved to Scripture as He helps us to know and love Christ more fully.

There are NO modern day prophets whatsoever so, please don't think you are bringing us any new information.

Your kind are a dime a dozen and I am sorry to be so blunt.

Perhaps someday, as the Lord wills, you will come to Him as the Spirit moves and know the Godhead as Father, Son and Holy Spirit, as our precious historic creeds and Scripture describe Him.

 

[cgaviria]

The Canon of Scripture is closed and all we need to know of our Lord has already been given us in His Word. The Holy Spirit will always direct the beloved to Scripture as He helps us to know and love Christ more fully.

There are NO modern day prophets whatsoever so, please don't think you are bringing us any new information.

Your kind are a dime a dozen and I am sorry to be so blunt.

Perhaps someday, as the Lord wills, you will come to Him as the Spirit moves and know the Godhead as Father, Son and Holy Spirit, as our precious historic creeds and Scripture describe Him.

Of course there are modern day prophets, anyone who truly has the holy spirit is as a prophet, as all who receive the holy spirit also receive power to prophesy, speak in languages unknown to the prophet, and perform miracles. Why do you suppose that Jesus Christ said this,

And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; (Mark 16:17 [NIV])

Or that even other prophets existed among the apostles?

After we had been there a number of days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. Coming over to us, he took Paul's belt, tied his own hands and feet with it and said, "The Holy Spirit says, 'In this way the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem will bind the owner of this belt and will hand him over to the Gentiles.'" (Acts 2:10-11 [NIV])

You guys are among those who the assemblies are warned of,

having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people. (2 Timothy 3:5 [NIV])

You lack power because you don't actually have the holy spirit, which gives power,

For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline. (2 Timothy 1:7 [NIV])

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Did you miss the post where I explain that there are two altars, one of sacrifice (earthly) and the other for incense (heavenly)?

All I see from you on this thread as your refusal to actually explain what we see from these people who are supposedly "sleeping":

"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" (Rev.6:9-10).​

How can those who are sleeping be saying those things?

 

[cgaviria]

All I see from you on this thread as your refusal to actually explain what we see from these people who are supposedly "sleeping":

"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" (Rev.6:9-10).​

How can those who are sleeping be saying those things?

Read the posts above.

 

[Eagles Wings]

Of course there are modern day prophets, anyone who truly has the holy spirit is as a prophet, as all who receive the holy spirit also receive power to prophesy, speak in languages unknown to the prophet, and perform miracles. Why do you suppose that Jesus Christ said this,

And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; (Mark 16:17 [NIV])

Or that even other prophets existed among the apostles?

After we had been there a number of days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. Coming over to us, he took Paul's belt, tied his own hands and feet with it and said, "The Holy Spirit says, 'In this way the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem will bind the owner of this belt and will hand him over to the Gentiles.'" (Acts 2:10-11 [NIV])

You guys are among those who the assemblies are warned of,

having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people. (2 Timothy 3:5 [NIV])

You lack power because you don't actually have the holy spirit, which gives power,

For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline. (2 Timothy 1:7 [NIV])

There you go again, presuming and falsely judging what you think the saints of God think of the power of the Holy Spirit.

Many Christians believe that the particular gifts of tongues and prophecy ceased with the Apostles.

Each and every Christian that I know, believes in the power and action of the Holy Spirit in their daily lives.

Again, you point fingers and claim to be all-knowing.

 

[cgaviria]

There you go again, presuming and falsely judging what you think the saints of God think of the power of the Holy Spirit.

Many Christians believe that the particular gifts of tongues and prophecy ceased with the Apostles.

Each and every Christian that I know, believes in the power and action of the Holy Spirit in their daily lives.

Again, you point fingers and claim to be all-knowing and it is disgusting.

Your very assertions prove that you don't have the holy spirit. Anyone saying,

"Many Christians believe that the particular gifts of tongues and prophecy ceased with the Apostles."

"This is not a critical issue."

Does not have the holy spirit. Having power is of utmost importance, or why do you suppose that Paul said,

Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up. (1 Corinthians 14:5 [ESV])

Even when preaching out to unbelievers, he merely just demonstrated the power of the spirit,

My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, (1 Corinthians 2:4 [ESV])

Having power comes with being baptized in the holy spirit. No one that receives the holy spirit, will not then say they have no power, as every baptism of the holy spirit comes with a manifestation of power, as seen every single time in scripture.

I'm not telling you this to judge you, I am telling you this so that you realize your own error, and can then truly receive the holy spirit.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Read the posts above.

Read my lips: You continue to run and hide from the verses where those you say are sleeping are actually speaking.

Besides that let us look at what is happening in regard to the 24 elders who are in heaven:

"The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created" (Rev.4:10-11).​

Of course anyone with a lick of sense can see that these elders are not sleeping!

Over and over again you prove that you put more faith in what some men say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually say!

 

[Eagles Wings]

Nope, we are not to decide the state of another's salvation and life in the Spirit.

Oops, I forgot, anti-Trinitarians do not have the fullness of faith in the Godhead, and due to that, have NO understanding of Scripture. As God wills, some of them may someday.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Does not have the holy spirit. Having power is of utmost importance

I bet you are a BIG fan of Benny Hinn:

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover" (Mk.16:17-18).​

Have you already had your daily dose of arsenic?

 

[Eagles Wings]

I bet you are a BIG fan of Benny Hinn:

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover" (Mk.16:17-18).​

Have you already had your daily dose of arsenic?

I was suckered by this guy for a bit in my young thirties. Good to read what you think of him.

 

[cgaviria]

Read my lips: You continue to run and hide from the verses where those you say are sleeping are actually speaking.

Besides that let us look at what is happening in regard to the 24 elders who are in heaven:

"The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created" (Rev.4:10-11).​

Of course anyone with a lick of sense can see that these elders are not sleeping!

Over and over again you prove that you put more faith in what some men say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually say!

Why should it come as a surprise that Revelation, being mainly figurative, would not also have passages such as the ones you are quoting, to also be figurative? Did you somehow not catch the verses preceding these verses you quoted that read as follows,

Also in front of the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass, clear as crystal. In the center, around the throne, were four living creatures, and they were covered with eyes, in front and in back. The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle. (Revelation 4:6-7 [NIV])

Are we to also take these verses literally that this creatures literally exist as described, or could it just possibly be, that just like most other passages in Revelation, this passage is figurative and has an interpretation to be discovered and extracted? Common now, be intelligent. You are misinterpreting these scriptures in contradiction of other scriptures, which I have stated in this study.

 

[cgaviria]

Nope, we are not to decide the state of another's salvation and life in the Spirit.

Oops, I forgot, anti-Trinitarians do not have the fullness of faith in the Godhead, and due to that, have NO understanding of Scripture. As God wills, some of them may someday.

Actually no, whoever teaches the doctrine of the trinity blasphemes God, as this is one of the blasphemies that was prophesied to be spoken by the great catholic church established by the Romans,

It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. (Revelation 13:6 [ESV])

Whereupon these blasphemies are echoed throughout all the churches that still hold many of its teachings. This is a pagan teaching adopted by the catholic church.

 

[cgaviria]

I bet you are a BIG fan of Benny Hinn:

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover" (Mk.16:17-18).​

Have you already had your daily dose of arsenic?

Why would I be? Benny Hinn did not author the writings stating that having the holy spirit brings power. And why would you mock me to test God by poisoning myself?

Do not put the LORD your God to the test as you did at Massah. (Deuteronomy 6:16 [NIV])

Your very own coarse joke demonstrates your very own lack of understanding,

Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. (Ephesians 5:4 [NIV])

 

[Veritas veritate]

I admit that I missed the transition between the two altars. Thank you for pointing that out; however, it does not change the fact that both altars are in heaven because the tabernacle on earth was an exact replica of that which was in heaven. Besides that, after the first four seals were opened, John was called to "come and see." When the fifth seal was opened he was not called to come and see because what was being seen was in heaven where he was...