Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The verse which I quoted speaks of that:
"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).
ECT The Righteousness Which is of God
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
The verse which I quoted speaks of that:
"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Do you know what the word "all" means?:
"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away" (Isa.64:6).
beloved57
Well-known member
I have gave you my understanding of that verse many times. Why didn't you save them?
beloved57
Well-known member
A lost person can't believe the Gospel because it's hidden from them that are lost 2 Cor 4:3-4
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Why do refuse to answer what i said here?:
Here is a question which a sinner asked Paul and those with him:
"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).
Do you think that in order to be saved a person must "believe"?
beloved57
Well-known member
I have answered it before. And a lost person cant believe the Gospel because its hidden from them . Now what does the passage mean to you because you bought it up, you are first responsible to explain it !
musterion
Well-known member
There it is, the real logic of Calvinism: a lost person can't believe the Gospel, so only a saved person can believe it -- meaning the elect are saved before they believe the Gospel.
Calvinism is heathen idolatry.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You got that right. They deny that the gospel which comes in the Holy Spirit is not sufficient to save:
"For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake" (1 Thess.1:5).
They worship a Holy Spirit who is impotent to bring life to those who are dead in sin. They deny that the word of God is Spirit and life. The Lord Jesus said:
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).
beloved57
Well-known member
The Gospel is hid to them that are lost 2Cor 4:3
[FONT="]But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:[/FONT]
musterion
Well-known member
Because they loved sin and refused to believe the Truth, they have blinded minds. It is NOT the result of God's reprobating them in eternity past, fool.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
"But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them" (2 Cor.4:3).
This proves these people who are described as being "lost" have the ability to believe the gospel but because their minds are blinded to it by Satan they do not believe it.
According to your bankrupt theology those who are "lost" have no ability to believe the gospel!
beloved57
Well-known member
How can believe that they are blind to ? They cant see it ?
Context context--
Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Isa 64:7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.
Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.
Isa 64:9 Be not wroth very sore, O LORD, neither remember iniquity for ever: behold, see, we beseech thee, we are all thy people.
Isa 64:10 Thy holy cities are a wilderness, Zion is a wilderness, Jerusalem a desolation.
Isa 64:11 Our holy and our beautiful house, where our fathers praised thee, is burned up with fire: and all our pleasant things are laid waste.
Isa 64:12 Wilt thou refrain thyself for these things, O LORD? wilt thou hold thy peace, and afflict us very sore?
LA
andyc
New member
I'm not a Calvinist, but you have to appreciate the fact that the supernatural grace that held back the jailer from committing suicide, obviously primed his heart. An important element in him wanting to know salvation.
andyc
New member
This is why madists come across as cultists. Calvinism is simply an alternative view of the details concerning how we as evangelical believers arrive at the same conclusions regarding essential doctrines.
You remind me of Haman. You get all upset because some of us refuse to bow to mad. You even used my recent spine injury as an opportunity to condemn me as a pentecostal. It doesn't get more hardhearted than that!
beloved57
Well-known member
Those that are lost can't believe the Gospel because it's hidden from them because their minds are blinded 2 Cor 4:3-4
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
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Capacity versus Ability - 2 Corinthians 4:3
Capacity versus Ability - 2 Corinthians 4:3
The capacity of a jug is one gallon. That is all it is able to hold. Is the jug able to hold half a gallon? Yes. Two gallons? No. Capacity defines or describes the limits of ability.
So while a blind man possesses the capacity to see, his blindness speaks to the lack of ability to do so. The blind man's capacities—to see or not to see—have limited his ability to only not seeing. The blind possess no ability to see for their physical conditions, their capacities, are defective.
In another example of physical capacity and ability, we know from Scripture that original man was created with the capacity and the accompanying ability to live forever. The capacity of the "jug" was unlimited. The accompanying ability to do so had no restrictions. But, after Adam's fall in the Garden, this obviously has changed. While we all possess the capacity to live forever, it has been limited as but one of the many consequences of Adam's original sin. We no longer possess the ability to live forever unless something happens to change the present defective capacity that limits our ability.
Now let's take Paul's metaphorical use of a physical trait, blindness, wherein he means spiritual blindness and apply the same understandings as above to the spiritual matters he is discussing.
In the passage, Paul repels with stern authority any complaints that may be mounted against him, for he threatens all who do not acknowledge the power of his gospel, and warns them that this is a token of the evidence of their reprobation and ruin.
In effect, Paul is stating:
“Should any one affirm that he does not perceive that manifestation of Christ of which I boast, he clearly shows himself, by this very token, to be a reprobate, for my sincerity in the work of instructing is clearly and distinctly perceived by all that have eyes. Those, therefore, from whom it is hid, must be blind, and destitute of all rational understanding.”
In other words, the blindness of unbelievers detracts nothing from the clearness of his gospel, for the sun is not less glowing and bright, that the blind do not perceive his light.
Adam, prior to the Fall, had a capacity (a quantification of some limiting amount, like the gallon jug) to do right or wrong. Adam's ability to do right or wrong was limited only by His capacities (one jug for good, one jug for evil). Adam failed his probationary test (do this and live). With Adam's fall, he and all his progeny, lost the ability to choose rightly (only one jug for evil remains). In other words, Adam, in his fallen state, the capacity to do good wholly debilitated. But Adam and all his progeny retained the capacity and accompanying ability to only sin more or sin less.
It is important to appreciate that the will is controlled by the nature. What we do is determined by what we are; the fruit depends on the nature of the tree. The will is not an independent principle. The will is always governed by other elements of the nature. By nature, the unbeliever possesses no moral ability to choose wisely—to choose the righteousness of God—for the unbeliever's capacity to seek the good is absent, hence he is only able to choose to sin more or sin less, given that the capacity for evil, and accompanying ability, is all that remains.
For more see: http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...nd-Reconciles-Us-to-God&p=4834549#post4834549
AMR
Capacity versus Ability - 2 Corinthians 4:3
Being overcome in your anti-Calvinist zeal, you are making no sense here, confusing capacity and ability. They are related, but they are not synonyms.
The capacity of a jug is one gallon. That is all it is able to hold. Is the jug able to hold half a gallon? Yes. Two gallons? No. Capacity defines or describes the limits of ability.
So while a blind man possesses the capacity to see, his blindness speaks to the lack of ability to do so. The blind man's capacities—to see or not to see—have limited his ability to only not seeing. The blind possess no ability to see for their physical conditions, their capacities, are defective.
In another example of physical capacity and ability, we know from Scripture that original man was created with the capacity and the accompanying ability to live forever. The capacity of the "jug" was unlimited. The accompanying ability to do so had no restrictions. But, after Adam's fall in the Garden, this obviously has changed. While we all possess the capacity to live forever, it has been limited as but one of the many consequences of Adam's original sin. We no longer possess the ability to live forever unless something happens to change the present defective capacity that limits our ability.
Now let's take Paul's metaphorical use of a physical trait, blindness, wherein he means spiritual blindness and apply the same understandings as above to the spiritual matters he is discussing.
In the passage, Paul repels with stern authority any complaints that may be mounted against him, for he threatens all who do not acknowledge the power of his gospel, and warns them that this is a token of the evidence of their reprobation and ruin.
In effect, Paul is stating:
“Should any one affirm that he does not perceive that manifestation of Christ of which I boast, he clearly shows himself, by this very token, to be a reprobate, for my sincerity in the work of instructing is clearly and distinctly perceived by all that have eyes. Those, therefore, from whom it is hid, must be blind, and destitute of all rational understanding.”
In other words, the blindness of unbelievers detracts nothing from the clearness of his gospel, for the sun is not less glowing and bright, that the blind do not perceive his light.
Adam, prior to the Fall, had a capacity (a quantification of some limiting amount, like the gallon jug) to do right or wrong. Adam's ability to do right or wrong was limited only by His capacities (one jug for good, one jug for evil). Adam failed his probationary test (do this and live). With Adam's fall, he and all his progeny, lost the ability to choose rightly (only one jug for evil remains). In other words, Adam, in his fallen state, the capacity to do good wholly debilitated. But Adam and all his progeny retained the capacity and accompanying ability to only sin more or sin less.
It is important to appreciate that the will is controlled by the nature. What we do is determined by what we are; the fruit depends on the nature of the tree. The will is not an independent principle. The will is always governed by other elements of the nature. By nature, the unbeliever possesses no moral ability to choose wisely—to choose the righteousness of God—for the unbeliever's capacity to seek the good is absent, hence he is only able to choose to sin more or sin less, given that the capacity for evil, and accompanying ability, is all that remains.
For more see: http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...nd-Reconciles-Us-to-God&p=4834549#post4834549
AMR
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
musterion
Well-known member
There it is again.