The Preterists and Matthew 24:34

[Interplanner]

John W,
of course, we have to keep in mind that secrecy was premium. Hopefully Pella was not on any maps.

What do you think of the view that many of the people in the 7 churches (the actual groups in weekly meetings in those towns) were full of escapees from Judea and that the Rev is a pastoral montage of what they had been through, but written during it and still expecting the 2nd coming? It is another reason for the Rev to be dated in the mid-late 60s.

 

[john w]

Apparently you never saw Johnny W's living quarters:

Apparently, TOL has not seen where you live, sweetie, with your "domestic" parnter, as your business went under, and your wife divorced you, sodomite. Why don't you tell us about it, wimp?

Vs.

“According to John W, you insult the other person by calling them names, and tell them they are a liar. Or, according to Nick M and Elyon, you call them names, tell them they are not saved, and that they are going to hell. Or, according to Lighthouse, you just call them idiots and morons…. Therefore, when I encounter a fellow believer who has a different understanding of scripture than I do, I do not rebuke them by calling them names, telling them they are not saved, insulting them, or calling them a liar like you do….You on the other hand, when encountering a believer who believes differently than you, are convinced that you know the 100% objective truth of the Bible, so you call the fellow believer names, and call them a liar…. just look at the name calling by Nick M, Butterfly, Lighthouse, and John W; this is what being a MADist is all about. When they are shown scripture they don’t like, they turn into little kids…. You are doing exactly as Johnny, and most of the other MADists do, and that is when you can’t do it with scripture, you attack the person.… If what I post is not true, than a well educated believer such as yourself should easily be able to show me where I am wrong instead of running away, or attacking me…. I have questioned some of Andy's posts, as has Godrulz. We can do it without calling him names, and without just copying and pasting the same thing over and over and over again… Therefore, I stand by my original statement that calling someone a name who does not agree with how you understand the Bible makes no sense since there is the possibility you could be wrong. MADists don't want to hear this, since they live to correct people, and call them names.. and when that doesn’t work, you resort to name calling…. Don't make me laughYou and Johnny and Nick M are the biggest name callers on TOL.”-Tet




Not attacking me, are you, or insulting me, are you, you piece of dung?


Tell you what, Craigie. Let's compare my W-2 with yours, eh sweetie?

Oh, that's right. Your business failed, and now your "domestic partner" supports, you. Right, Craigie?

I thought so, wimp.

 

[tetelestai]

good for you and your historians,,,we have (Matthew 24:16 KJV) into the mountains,,,,lol not over the mountains and almost out of Judaea

Decapolis wan't part of Judaea, and Pella was located on the foothills of the Tranjordanian Mountains.

You can keep fooling yourself, but the facts speak for themselves, and everything Jesus said would happen, did in fact happen when the Christians left Jerusalem and Judaea for Pella in 66AD.

Then 3.5 years later, the temple was destroyed, and not one stone was left standing upon another, just like Jesus said.

 

[john w]

Apparently you never saw Johnny W's living quarters

Vs.

"According to John W, you insult the other person ...Therefore, when I encounter a fellow believer who has a different understanding of scripture than I do, I do not ...insulting them,.. ...You are doing exactly as Johnny, and most of the other MADists do, and that is when you can’t do it with scripture, you attack the person.… If what I post is not true, than a well educated believer such as yourself should easily be able to show me where I am wrong instead of running away, or attacking me.."


You wicked actress.

 

[tetelestai]

John W,
of course, we have to keep in mind that secrecy was premium. Hopefully Pella was not on any maps.

What do you think of the view that many of the people in the 7 churches (the actual groups in weekly meetings in those towns) were full of escapees from Judea and that the Rev is a pastoral montage of what they had been through, but written during it and still expecting the 2nd coming? It is another reason for the Rev to be dated in the mid-late 60s.

Johnny W, like STP and heir adhere to E.W. Bullinger's teaching on Revelation, which states that every event in the book of Revelation is the yet future.

They actually believe the seven churches haven't existed yet.

 

[tetelestai]

hey tet,,,whose azamoth?

I have no idea.

I googled it, and it appears to be some Heavy Metal band.

 

[john w]

Apparently you never saw Johnny W's living quarters:

Here is sodomite Craigie's living quarters now:

 

[john w]

Johnny W, like STP and heir adhere to E.W. Bullinger's teaching on Revelation, which states that every event in the book of Revelation is the yet future.

They actually believe the seven churches haven't existed yet.

Prove it.


You adhere to Elton John's teachings. You actually believe that sodomy is biblical.


You also belong to a satanic church in San Francisco.

 

[tetelestai]

It is another reason for the Rev to be dated in the mid-late 60s.

I believe Revelation was written much earlier.

I also believe Paul was speaking of John being caught up in spirit on the Lord's Day in the following verse:

(2 Cor 12:2) I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know--God knows.

 

[john w]

I have no idea.

I googled it, and it appears to be some Heavy Metal band.

It's a code word, like "Darby," for your "domestic partner."

 

[john w]

believe Revelation was written much earlier.

You also believe in satanism, that Jesus Christ was not a man, and in sodomy/same sex marriage.

And?

 

[whitestone]

Decapolis wan't part of Judaea, and Pella was located on the foothills of the Tranjordanian Mountains.

You can keep fooling yourself, but the facts speak for themselves, and everything Jesus said would happen, did in fact happen when the Christians left Jerusalem and Judaea for Pella in 66AD.

Then 3.5 years later, the temple was destroyed, and not one stone was left standing upon another, just like Jesus said.

or those from the other camp could dig on the www and find maps,history ect. and support their doctrine with their set of maps and historians that argue that Pella was in Judaea,,,thats what I'm pointing out. Which one is correct is just gut instinct one camp says their maps and historians are correct,the other camp says no ours is.

It's the same as azamoth one says Jesus the other says devil,,,they argued it since way before me and you were born and neither side really can produce concrete proof either way. Now I wish we could,I don't really need to crow,but the point is that you nor me can prove it either way,"I wish we could",but the fact is because there is so much said arguing both sides we cant. That's why I say you just believe the way you do on gut instinct,me too,,,but you wont say what I just said...

 

[tetelestai]

or those from the other camp could dig on the www and find maps,history ect. and support their doctrine with their set of maps and historians that argue that Pella was in Judaea,,,thats what I'm pointing out. Which one is correct is just gut instinct one camp says their maps and historians are correct,the other camp says no ours is.

It's the same as azamoth one says Jesus the other says devil,,,they argued it since way before me and you were born and neither side really can produce concrete proof either way. Now I wish we could,I don't really need to crow,but the point is that you nor me can prove it either way,"I wish we could",but the fact is because there is so much said arguing both sides we cant. That's why I say you just believe the way you do on gut instinct,me too,,,but you wont say what I just said...

It's a fact that the temple was destroyed in 70AD

It's a fact that the Roman army surrounded the temple in 66AD

It's a fact that the siege and destruction lasted 3.5 years.

Christians leaving Jerusalem and fleeing to the mountains is verified by historians and early church fathers.

You can try to get technical, but the facts remain, and the facts confirm what Jesus said.

Maybe you're one of those people who are in to epistemology, and has to have empirical proof in order to separate truths from beliefs. If so, go to Rome, find the Arch of Titus, and look up at it:

 

[whitestone]

I have no idea.

I googled it, and it appears to be some Heavy Metal band.

yep,everyday life in Israel,,,I don't care for it

 

[whitestone]

It's a fact that the temple was destroyed in 70AD

It's a fact that the Roman army surrounded the temple in 66AD

It's a fact that the siege and destruction lasted 3.5 years.

Christians leaving Jerusalem and fleeing to the mountains is verified by historians and early church fathers.

You can try to get technical, but the facts remain, and the facts confirm what Jesus said.

Maybe you're one of those people who are in to epistemology, and has to have empirical proof in order to separate truths from beliefs. If so, go to Rome, find the Arch of Titus, and look up at it:

tet,have you gotten so accustomed to arguing that you missed that I knew this all along? re-read my post to you,,,all I ever said was you should have told them that over the mountain and almost out of Judaea is a foggy grey area,but duhh the rest happened. your leaving out where the Jews printed their own money in defiance,and where the roman army's melted the gold from the temple on the ruins of the walls,that they gave an ultimatum to the Jews and lined up the bodies of those who tried to escape the siege in a row around the city so the ones inside could see them,and that their was an argument that broke out among those inside weather to surrender or not and so one side set fire to the food supply inside the city to get the other side to surrender,,,,

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You should really familiarize yourself with OT symbolism.

The word "sea" is used often in the OT to describe pagan Gentile nations.

Where?

We now live in a new heavens and new earth.

No, that is ridiculous. Here is what John said about that:

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea" (Rev.21:1).​

According to your loony ideas the first earth has already passed away. The sad thing is the fact that you actually believe that!

(Zech 1:3) Therefore tell the people: This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘Return to me,’ declares the Lord Almighty, ‘and I will return to you,’ says the Lord Almighty.

Sounds conditional to me.

There is nothing that even hints that this prophecy is a conditional one:

"I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem" (Zech.14:2-4).​

Since the events described in that passage have not yet happened and you have no place for the fulfillment of it in your eschatology you must somehow get rid of it.

So you say that it was conditional despite the fact that it is an unconditional statement.

Do you not realize that you have lost all credibility on this subject? You just make things up out of thin air and then when challenged to provide evidence to support your assertions you just run and hide.

 

[genuineoriginal]

That happened when the Israelites were taken to Assyria and Babylon.

You're as bad as the Darby followers. You take OT prophecies that have already been fulfilled and you apply them to the yet future.

Leviticus 26:27-42 27 And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; 28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. 29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. 30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you. 31 And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours. 32 And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it. 33 And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste. 34 Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths. 35 As long as it lieth desolate it shall rest; because it did not rest in your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it. 36 And upon them that are left alive of you I will send a faintness into their hearts in the lands of their enemies; and the sound of a shaken leaf shall chase them; and they shall flee, as fleeing from a sword; and they shall fall when none pursueth. 37 And they shall fall one upon another, as it were before a sword, when none pursueth: and ye shall have no power to stand before your enemies. 38 And ye shall perish among the heathen, and the land of your enemies shall eat you up. 39 And they that are left of you shall pine away in their iniquity in your enemies' lands; and also in the iniquities of their fathers shall they pine away with them. 40 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me; 41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity: 42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.​

The children of Israel did not confess their iniquity, nor the iniquity of their fathers.
It was only Daniel that prayed the prayer of confession to fulfill this requirement.

Daniel 9:9-14 9 To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him; 10 Neither have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets. 11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him. 12 And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem. 13 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the Lord our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth. 14 Therefore hath the Lord watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the Lord our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice.​

The land was desolate for the time allotted (seventy years) so the children of Israel were allowed to return and rebuild the Temple
But because only Daniel prayed a prayer of repentance, the children of Israel remained in captivity to the Gentiles, even when they lived in the land.

This second period of captivity was a seven-fold increase in the time allotted to the original time of captivity.
The second period of captivity ended about the time of Stephen being stoned to death, and the third period of captivity began with a repeat of the destruction of the second Temple, on the anniversary of the very day that the first Temple was destroyed.
This third period of captivity should be a seven-fold increase in the time of the second period of captivity, which was a seven-fold increase in the first period of captivity (7 times 7 times 70), but will end sooner (except those days be shortened).

We are in the 19th century of the time of the third period of captivity, also known as the great tribulation and the time of the gentiles.

 

[genuineoriginal]

It already happened.

Which is why Jesus told those in Judaea to flee to the hills, and those outside Judaea not to go to Judaea.

Judaea was a Roman Province in the first century.

You must think there is going to be another Roman Province called Judaea in the future.

(Matt 24:16) then let those who are in Judaea flee to the mountains.

There is no need for another Judaea, since the prophecy of the beginning of the third period of captivity (great tribulation) began in 70 CE and the Christians living in Judaea fled to Pella in 66 CE to fulfill the command in the prophecy.

 

[genuineoriginal]

It was prophesied against ONE generation of Jews who lived in Judaea in the first century.

The destruction of the Temple was prophesied to happen within the lifetime of the wicked generation, and that happened at the beginning of the third period of captivity (great tribulation).

Only the Christians who lived in Judaea and near Judaea were told to flee to the mountains, and the Jewish Christians who lived outside Judaea were told not to go to Judaea.

(Luke 21:21) Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

To apply the above verse to anyone besides one generation of Jewish Christians in the first century is foolishness.

Then you should stop trying to apply it to any other Christians and recognize that the destruction of the Temple was not the great tribulation, the third period of captivity is the great tribulation and began with the Romans capturing Jerusalem and destroying the Temple, making the land desolate until the consummation.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I cannot quote myself saying what you said I wrote because I never wrote that!

You made a mistake and misrepresented what I wrote and now you refuse to acknowledge your mistake.

Your mistake is in your belief that the beginning of the great tribulation starts within seven years of the end of the great tribulation.

The prophecy of the great tribulation of the children of Israel is supposed to be thousands of years of tribulation, not a few short years.