The Preterists and Matthew 24:34

[tetelestai]

Highlights include the Pogram of 1926 CE and the Holocaust in 1945, each of which killed more Jews than were killed in 70 CE.

All your assumptions are based on sheer numbers.

Which of the following is a greater tribulation:

1) A mother roasts her 2 year old daughter, then eats the daughter to keep from starving to death.

2) 10 men are executed by a firing squad

Also, 70AD marked the end of the old covenant, the end of the Temple, the end of the Mosaic Law, the end of the ages.

What could be greater than an end to these things?

No event since has had a greater effect on human history than what happened in 70AD

 

[john w]

My view is that the Bible speaks of two resurrections (Rev 20)

I believe the first one was in 70AD. I believe Jesus took all the captives from Abraham's bosom to Heaven, and since then, all believers in Christ have been caught up to be with those Saints when they physically die.

Then I believe the second resurrection is the resurrection of the unbelievers who will then stand before God the Father at the Great White Throne Judgement, and then will be cast into hell for unbelief.

Plagiarism.

 

[genuineoriginal]

All your assumptions are based on sheer numbers.

Which of the following is a greater tribulation:

1) A mother roasts her 2 year old daughter, then eats the daughter to keep from starving to death.

2) 10 men are executed by a firing squad

You missed the time with 6,000 Jews were gassed each day during the Holocaust.

Also, 70AD marked the end of the old covenant, the end of the Temple, the end of the Mosaic Law, the end of the ages.

What could be greater than an end to these things?

No event since has had a greater effect on human history than what happened in 70AD

The great tribulation is what happens to the Jews when God scatters them among the nations and makes the land desolate.

Leviticus 26:33 33 And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.​

Isaiah 1:7 7 Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.​

Jeremiah 6:8 8 Be thou instructed, O Jerusalem, lest my soul depart from thee; lest I make thee desolate, a land not inhabited.​

Jeremiah 18:15-17 15 Because my people hath forgotten me, they have burned incense to vanity, and they have caused them to stumble in their ways from the ancient paths, to walk in paths, in a way not cast up; 16 To make their land desolate, and a perpetual hissing; every one that passeth thereby shall be astonished, and wag his head. 17 I will scatter them as with an east wind before the enemy; I will shew them the back, and not the face, in the day of their calamity.​

Jeremiah 44:6 6 Wherefore my fury and mine anger was poured forth, and was kindled in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem; and they are wasted and desolate, as at this day.​

Ezekiel 33:28-29 28 For I will lay the land most desolate, and the pomp of her strength shall cease; and the mountains of Israel shall be desolate, that none shall pass through. 29 Then shall they know that I am the Lord, when I have laid the land most desolate because of all their abominations which they have committed.​

Micah 7:13 13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.​

Zechariah 7:14 14 But I scattered them with a whirlwind among all the nations whom they knew not. Thus the land was desolate after them, that no man passed through nor returned: for they laid the pleasant land desolate.​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

According to you, when the rapture happens, all the dead believers rise first, and then the believers who are alive get raptured up with them.

The events of the rapture were a mystery, including the resurrection of those who are dead in Christ. The resurrection of the just was spoken of in OT prophecy so it was not a mystery.

The OT Scriptures will be searched in vain for any mention of a resurrection where living saints will meet the Lord in the air at the same time and put on new, glorious bodies just like the Lord Jesus' body.

However, you claim Jesus doesn't stand on planet earth when your rapture takes place.

The rapture is described as being imminent so the saints in the BOC can meet the Lord in the air at any moment. And when that happens the saints will put on heavenly bodies because at that point of time the destiny of the saints is heaven, and not the earth.

On the other hand, the Lord return to the earth cannot possibly happen until after certain events first take place, such as the abomination of desolation spoken of at Matthew 24:15.

You are the most confused person on this forum and you are just wasting your time as well as others by trying to defend your indefensible theology.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You are mistaken in thinking that the beginning of the great tribulation is near the end of the great tribulation.

Quote me saying that.

 

[whitestone]

Quote me saying that.

this is what I was speaking of,,,the Resurrection of those who are martyrs must come before the rapture,,,

 

[genuineoriginal]

Quote me saying that.

Quote yourself.

You have opposed any idea that the beginning of the great tribulation is not near the end of the great tribulation.

If you do not believe that the entire "great" tribulation takes place in a time span of seven years or less, state that clearly.

If not, then my accusation about your mistaken thinking stands as stated.

My position is that the great tribulation is called great in comparison to the 70 year exile of Jeremiah, which means that the extremely long time of the tribulation is the main reason it is called the great tribulation of the Jews.

 

[whitestone]

Quote yourself.

You have opposed any idea that the beginning of the great tribulation is not near the end of the great tribulation.

If you do not believe that the entire "great" tribulation takes place in a time span of seven years or less, state that clearly.

If not, then my accusation about your mistaken thinking stands as stated.

My position is that the great tribulation is called great in comparison to the 70 year exile of Jeremiah, which means that the extremely long time of the tribulation is the main reason it is called the great tribulation of the Jews.

Matthew 24:9 KJV ,,,"FOR MY NAMES SAKE",,,,,the error is to attribute this to the Jews in fulfillment that is the Jews cannot die for "Jesus name sake",unless they are christian,they are not,,,,,,this is spoken to "THOSE WHO ARE CHRISTIAN",,,

 

[genuineoriginal]

Matthew 24:9 KJV ,,,"FOR MY NAMES SAKE",,,,,the error is to attribute this to the Jews in fulfillment that is the Jews cannot die for "Jesus name sake",unless they are christian,they are not,,,,,,this is spoken to "THOSE WHO ARE CHRISTIAN",,,

The great tribulation was prophesied against the Jews, the Christians were warned to flee so they could escape the beginning of the great tribulation.

 

[tetelestai]

Leviticus 26:33
33 And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.

That happened when the Israelites were taken to Assyria and Babylon.

You're as bad as the Darby followers. You take OT prophecies that have already been fulfilled and you apply them to the yet future.

 

[tetelestai]

The great tribulation was prophesied against the Jews, the Christians were warned to flee so they could escape the beginning of the great tribulation.

It already happened.

Which is why Jesus told those in Judaea to flee to the hills, and those outside Judaea not to go to Judaea.

Judaea was a Roman Province in the first century.

You must think there is going to be another Roman Province called Judaea in the future.

(Matt 24:16) then let those who are in Judaea flee to the mountains.

 

[musterion]

This is a side of Tet I've not seen before...getting all defensive and whiny. His Darby bazooka must be losing it's power.

 

[tetelestai]

The events of the rapture were a mystery, including the resurrection of those who are dead in Christ. The resurrection of the just was spoken of in OT prophecy so it was not a mystery.

The OT Scriptures will be searched in vain for any mention of a resurrection where living saints will meet the Lord in the air at the same time and put on new, glorious bodies just like the Lord Jesus' body.



The rapture is described as being imminent so the saints in the BOC can meet the Lord in the air at any moment. And when that happens the saints will put on heavenly bodies because at that point of time the destiny of the saints is heaven, and not the earth.

On the other hand, the Lord return to the earth cannot possibly happen until after certain events first take place, such as the abomination of desolation spoken of at Matthew 24:15.

You are the most confused person on this forum and you are just wasting your time as well as others by trying to defend your indefensible theology.

That doesn't explain your contradiction Jerry.

You claim Job is going to see Jesus standing on planet earth when Job is resurrected in the flesh.

Since that violates your rapture rules, when is it that you have Job being resurrected?

 

[tetelestai]

Matthew 24:9 KJV ,,,"FOR MY NAMES SAKE",,,,,the error is to attribute this to the Jews in fulfillment that is the Jews cannot die for "Jesus name sake",unless they are christian,they are not,,,,,,this is spoken to "THOSE WHO ARE CHRISTIAN",,,

:thumb:

Not only is it spoken to Christians, it is spoken to Christians who are living in Judaea.

Yet Genuineoriginal thinks it applies to the people who called themselves Jews who were killed by Nazi's.

 

[tetelestai]

The great tribulation was prophesied against the Jews,

It was prophesied against ONE generation of Jews who lived in Judaea in the first century.

the Christians were warned to flee so they could escape the beginning of the great tribulation.

Only the Christians who lived in Judaea and near Judaea were told to flee to the mountains, and the Jewish Christians who lived outside Judaea were told not to go to Judaea.

(Luke 21:21) Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

To apply the above verse to anyone besides one generation of Jewish Christians in the first century is foolishness.

 

[tetelestai]

This is a side of Tet I've not seen before...getting all defensive and whiny. His Darby bazooka must be losing it's power.

(Mark 13:30) Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

(Mark 13:30) Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

that translation cannot possibly be correct because no first century generation saw a world wide harvest:

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth" (Lk.21:32-35).​

 

[Interplanner]

Tetelestai,
your homework is well done.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

That doesn't explain your contradiction Jerry.

Of course you were unable to point out anything which I said as being in error. all you prove is the fact that you are unable to grasp the truths concerning that there will be two resurrections of the saved, one that has been prophesised and one that is described as being a "mystery" truth.

 

[Interplanner]

Shugart re the generation,
that's where the allowance in the text (and 2 Pet 3) factors in.

All indications are that the whole world was to be judged right after the awful things that took place in Israel in that generation. But there was an allowance. We know this from 3 things:

the parable of the attentive servants in Mk 13
the 'only the Father knows' sayings
2 Pet 3, which answers why there is a delay

All we have to do is remember this and things will settle. We are now 2000 years down the road. So we can now say:

NT eschatology does not mix 1st century Judean events with distant future worldwide judgement. Most eschatology mistakes are mixing mistakes.

We can say this now, but in those days they thought the whole end was 'right after' Mt 24:29.