The Preterists and Matthew 24:34

[john w]

Isiah 1 KJV

21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it;but now murderers.22 Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water:23 thy princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves:every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards:they judge not the fatherless,neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them.24 Therefore saith the Lord,the Lord of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies: 25 and I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin:26 and I will restore thy judges as at the first,and thy counsellors as at the beginning:afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city.


Tet: Jerusalem today is "The city of righteousness, the faithful city!!!!"

Prophecy: "I will restore thy judges as at the first"

Matthew 19:28 KJV
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Tet:

1. Not literal

2. There is judging in the third heaven today, as this does not refer to the throne on earth.

3. Darby

4. Don't you believe the bible/"Jesus"/Paul?

Luke 22:30 KJV

that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

1. Not literal

2. There is judging in the third heaven today, as this does not refer to the throne on earth.


3. Darby

4. Don't you believe the bible/"Jesus"/Paul?

5. Darby

6. Darby

 

[tetelestai]

Both Charles Ryrie and John Walvoord were right when they said that some of the "everlasting" promises and covenants spoken of in the OT only apply to time and history and when time and history have come to an end and give way to a timeless eternity then those 'everlasting' promises and covenants will cease.

I actually agree with this.

Now if you would only believe Jesus, Peter, Paul, John, and the writer of Hebrews. They all made it clear that the end of the ages occurred in the first century.

Since you brought up Walvoord

Walvoord, like most Dispensationalists, just couldn't help himself and had to make an end times prediction.

His book below was published in 2007. However, few know that it was a revision, and the book was actually written in 1974.

Walvoord's book had to change most of the things in the revision because most of what he predicted in 1974 never happened. (Walvoord died in 2002)

Pretty soon, his current book will be outdated, and some other Dispensationalist will have to write an updated Middle East Apocalypse book.

IOW, Walvoord is just another Darby follower who is wrong most of the time.

 

[tetelestai]

The living waters of Zech 14, Joel 3 and Ezekiel 47 are literal.

Unbelievable.

Can you please tell us what "Living Waters" are?

 

[john w]

Now if you would only believe Jesus, Peter, Paul, John, and the writer of Hebrews.



IOW, Walvoord is just another Darby follower who is wrong most of the time.

As I predicted, the mutt spammed a version of " Don't you believe the bible/"Jesus"/Paul?," and, of course, "Darby."


Shut up, you mutt.

 

[tetelestai]

You talk like an unbelieving skeptic of the Bible.

I believe the Bible.

I don't believe John Nelson Darby.

The kingdom is a spiritual kingdom, the earth will remain forever.

(Ecc 1:4) Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever.

You claim the earth will not remain forever.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Yet, you think the works in 2 Peter 3:10 will be burned with literal fire.

Whether it is literal fire or not does not really matter since Peter states that the universe will be dissolved:

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness" (2 Pet.3:10).​

There is absolutely no reason to suppose that the universe will not be dissolved, since the author of the book of Hebrews says practically the same thing:

"And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest" (Heb.1:10-11).​

Of course these things have not yet happened but you are some how able to trick your mind into believing the goofy idea that the universe has been dissolved and has perished.

 

[steko]

I believe the Bible.

I don't believe John Nelson Darby.

The kingdom is a spiritual kingdom, the earth will remain forever.

(Ecc 1:4) Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever.

You claim the earth will not remain forever.

Show where I claimed that.

 

[john w]

Unbelievable.

Can you please tell us what "Living Waters" are?

Tell us what the underlined are, sweetie:

Zech 14 KJV

-For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle;
-Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle
-And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives-And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. 9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one. 10 All the land shall be turned as a plain.....
-And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
-And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

 

[john w]

I believe the Bible.

I don't believe John Nelson Darby.

666th time this year for that spam/stumper, that impresses all of TOL, and settles it. That's all the demon has.

"I believe the bible"-Craigie


Stunning.

 

[tetelestai]

Show where I claimed that.

Is Isaiah 65:17 literal?

(Isaiah 65:17) See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

How about Rev 21:1?

(Rev 21:1) Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

 

[steko]

Is Isaiah 65:17 literal?

(Isaiah 65:17) See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

How about Rev 21:1?

(Rev 21:1) Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Yes, literal.

 

[steko]

Unbelievable.

Can you please tell us what "Living Waters" are?

Running water.

However, in the context of Ezekiel the waters will have healing powers even to the point of bringing life to the Dead Sea so that fish will live there.

 

[tetelestai]

John Walvoord

John Walvoord said the following in 1974:

"The world today is like a stage being set for a great drama.
The major actors are already in the wings waiting for their
moment in history. The main stage props are already in
place. The prophetic play is about to begin.… Our present
world is well prepared for the beginning of the prophetic
drama that will lead to Armageddon. Since the stage is
set for this dramatic climax of the age, it must mean that
Christ’s coming for his own is very near." - John W. Walvoord, Armageddon, Oil and the Middle East Crisis, page 228

 

[steko]

John Walvoord said the following in 1974:

"The world today is like a stage being set for a great drama.
The major actors are already in the wings waiting for their
moment in history. The main stage props are already in
place. The prophetic play is about to begin.… Our present
world is well prepared for the beginning of the prophetic
drama that will lead to Armageddon. Since the stage is
set for this dramatic climax of the age, it must mean that
Christ’s coming for his own is very near." - John W. Walvoord, Armageddon, Oil and the Middle East Crisis, page 228

Did he set a date?

 

[tetelestai]

Yes, literal.

Ok, then how was I wrong by stating that you don't believe the earth will remain forever?

 

[steko]

Ok, then how was I wrong by stating that you don't believe the earth will remain forever?

I take into consideration the Greek text.

 

[tetelestai]

Did he set a date?

Not that I know of.

I guess since he was Dispensationalist he had a very hard time with the phrase "very near".

(Rev 22:10) Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near.

I guess since Walvoord thought "the time is near" meant 2,000 years, he wasn't off base for claiming Jesus' return was "very near" in 1974.

Maybe the phrase "very near" means a couple hundred years to Dispensationalists.

 

[tetelestai]

I take into consideration the Greek text.

Which says what?

 

[steko]

Not that I know of.

I guess since he's a Dispensationalist he has a very hard time with the phrase "very near".

(Rev 22:10) Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near.

I guess since Walvoord thought "the time is near" meant 2,000 years, he wasn't off base for claiming Jesus' return was "very near" in 1974.

Maybe the phrase "very near" means a couple hundred years to Dispensationalists.

If he didn't set a date, then I don't consider him to be a false prophet.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Now if you would only believe Jesus, Peter, Paul, John, and the writer of Hebrews. They all made it clear that the end of the ages occurred in the first century.

The Lord Jesus Himself said what would occur at the end of the age:

"He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this age. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear" (Mt. 13:37-43).​

Here we can see that the Lord Jesus speaks of a harvest that will happen at the "end of the age", the "end of this age." He also makes it clear that the harvest will take place in the field, and He says that the "field is the world" (kosmos).

Well known preterist author Gary DeMar said thye following about the meaning of the Greek word kosmos:

"It's significant that Matthew uses oikoumene only in 24:14, while he uses kosmos, a word that can have a more global meaning, nine times. In fact, we read later in Matthew's gospel: 'Truly I say to you, wherever this gospel is preached in the whole world [kosmos], what this woman has done shall also be spoken of in memory of her' (26:13). The Greek construction in the two verses is identical except that in 26:13 kosmos is used for 'world.' Matthew chooses oikoumene over kosmos because he wants to emphasize its local geographical fulfillment within the time frame of 'this generation' in contrast to a universal fulfillment not bound by geography or time as is the obvious case in 26:13" (DeMar,Limited Geography and Bibical Interpretation).

There was never a world wide harvest in the first century so the end of the age remains in the future.

Here we see that signs will be seen in the sky AFTER the great tribulation is over:

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken" (Mt.24:29).​

And the following passage describes men reacting to those signs in the sky and being in fear of things which will be coming on a much larger area than Israel, and which will take place after the great tribulation is over:

"And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth (oikoumene)" (Lk.21:25-26).​

There was never a large harvest that happened on a large mass of land after Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD.

Gary DeMar had this to say about the meaning of the Greek word oikoumene:

"The case can be made that 'oikoumene' is used exclusively for the geographical area generally limited to the Roman empire of the first-century and the territories immediately adjacent which were known and accessible to first-century travelers. When first-century Christians read the word 'oikoumene,' they thought of what they knew of their world" [emphasis mine] (Gary DeMar, "The Gospel Preached to All the World, Part 3 of 4; The Preterist Archive).​

We can also see that there will be a world wide judgment at the end of the age because He compares that with the world wide flood:

"But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be" (Mt.24:37-39).​

That judgment was not limited to just a part of the world but instead to the whole earth. And that is why the Lord Jesus compares His coming to the Noah's flood.

And that is exactly why the Lord Jesus said the following:

"And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth" (Lk.21:34-35).​

All the preterists do is to try to change the meaning of the Greek words kosmos and oikoumene to mean Israel.

The trouble with this is the fact that no Greek experts agrees with their definition (and not even their own, Gary DeMar). The other problem is the fact that both of these Greek words apply to events which will happen after the great tribulation is over. History speaks of no such events that happened after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.