Interplanner
Well-known member
It's for everyone, through Christ. He performed and mediated it. But he is a representative for humanity--for those who believe on him. He makes everything (that was in Judaism) new.
The new covenant
- Thread starter Jacob
- Start date
It's for everyone, through Christ. He performed and mediated it. But he is a representative for humanity--for those who believe on him. He makes everything (that was in Judaism) new.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
The New Covenant is for a remnant of peoples gathered for redemption, out of ALL nations. Revelation 21:23-27
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Shalom.
In Judaism there was the expectation of the coming Messiah, and He came. He is Yeshua.
Shalom.
Jacob
turbosixx
New member
I'm curious how you can observe two laws. For example, now that Jesus is high priest the law has changed because he can't be high priest under the Mosaical law.
Heb. 7:11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. 13 For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has officiated at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood.
Also, look at what Paul says in Romans 7. By observing both laws, one is in effect committing spiritual adultery.
Rom. 7:1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
What is your stance on circumcision, necessary or not?
Shalom.
Not true about spiritual adultery, it does not exist.
Jesus was not of Levi, true.
The Law of Moses, or Torah, includes circumcision. For converts from among the Gentiles see the essentials in Acts 15. Those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles.
I do not see what two laws you are talking about. I am talking about all of God's commands.
Shalom.
Jacob
turbosixx
New member
Lk. 2:22 And when the days for their purification according to the law of Moses were completed,
Gal. 6:2 Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.
Gal. 4:21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Shalom.
I believe you are saying that a second law is the law of Christ, but I do not know this to be what God spoke through Jeremiah.
Shalom.
Jacob
turbosixx
New member
The truth of the gospel is that circumcision isn't necessary. That's what Paul is dealing with in Galatians.
Gal. 2:3 But not even Titus, who was with me, though he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised. 4 But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage. 5 But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.
Paul says that if you receive circumcision Christ will be of no value to you.
Gal. 5:1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. 2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Because circumcision means nothing.
Gal. 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
Paul says if circumcision is the way then the cross is the stumbling block.
Gal. 5:11 But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished.
Just trying to help.
turbosixx
New member
I suggest there has to be a new law because Jesus can't be high priest under the Mosaical law. That's why there is a new law.
Heb. 7:12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also.
God made a new law.
Heb. 8:13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
It's clear there are two covenants or laws.
Heb. 9:15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16 For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. 17 For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives.
Paul contrast the two as law of works and law of faith.
Rom. 3:27 Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.
Shalom.
I did not say that circumcision is the way. If you want to observe Passover you must be circumcised. Paul would not have had Timothy circumcised if the Law had been abolished.
Shalom.
Jacob
Shalom.
Remember from Jeremiah that the new covenant is not like the old. And yet the Law has not been abolished.
Shalom.
Jacob
turbosixx
New member
The reason Paul had Timothy circumcised was because it would hinder the Jews from listening to the gospel, not because it's still the law.
Acts 16:3 Paul wanted this man to go with him; and he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in those parts, for they all knew that his father was a Greek.
By your logic Paul should have circumcised Titus but he didn't so the truth would be evident.
I think I've shown enough for now but I would suggest taking a look at Romans, Galatians and Hebrews. They make it clear the old law has been done away with.
13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
God Bless
Shalom.
Titus did not get circumcised for the sake of the gospel. Timothy was circumcised having grown up understanding the sacred scriptures. His mother was Jewish. I do not see the reason you give in the text. Gentiles do not need to be circumcised when they turn to God. I do not know what to say about conversion. Have you read Acts 15? If you turned to God from among the Gentiles, do you observe the essentials?
Shalom.
Jacob