The new covenant

[Interplanner]

Shalom.
No. I do not. I only wish you the best with whatever you have to work out to come to truth, if you ever find that what you have said is less than what you want or wanted it to be.

I just went through Acts 13 once. What do you think the destiny of Israel is? See verse 47.

Shalom.

Jacob

Yes, good. The mission to the nations. to preach the gospel of justification. V36 says all that was promised to the fathers was fulfilled in the resurrection of christ. The significance of that is the resurrection happened because justification was accomplished. Because he completed it, God enthroned Christ on the throne David foresaw, Act 2:30-31.

The destiny of Israel was to be the leading evangelists to the world, see the middle of Rom 10.

 

[Jacob]

Yes, good. The mission to the nations. to preach the gospel of justification. V36 says all that was promised to the fathers was fulfilled in the resurrection of christ. The significance of that is the resurrection happened because justification was accomplished. Because he completed it, God enthroned Christ on the throne David foresaw, Act 2:30-31.

The destiny of Israel was to be the leading evangelists to the world, see the middle of Rom 10.

Shalom.

I do not know what you mean by the gospel of justification.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[turbosixx]

Yes, Israel has been given a new covenant. That new covenant is the gospel. That's why Jesus tells Nicodemus that he has to be "born again" because him being a physical Jew will not get him into the kingdom.

The new covenant with Israel also includes Gentiles as fellow heirs.

Shalom.

I observe Judaism, I accept Yeshua as the Messiah,

I would suggest to you that these are contradictory statements. In Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile and you can't observe Judaism and accept Christ. It's one or the other and only one saves. Paul tells the Galatians who want to observe Judaism that if you receive circumcision, because you want the be justified by the law, you have fallen from grace, Gal. 5:3-4.

Hope this helps.

 

[Jacob]

Yes, Israel has been given a new covenant. That new covenant is the gospel. That's why Jesus tells Nicodemus that he has to be "born again" because him being a physical Jew will not get him into the kingdom.

The new covenant with Israel also includes Gentiles as fellow heirs.



I would suggest to you that these are contradictory statements. In Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile and you can't observe Judaism and accept Christ. It's one or the other and only one saves. Paul tells the Galatians who want to observe Judaism that if you receive circumcision, because you want the be justified by the law, you have fallen from grace, Gal. 5:3-4.

Hope this helps.

Shalom.

No one can be justified by the law.

In Judaism we have the expectation of the coming Messiah, who came, Yeshua, Jesus.

For a Jew to be born again is something that you should consider.

We do have the new covenant in Yeshua. It is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[turbosixx]

Shalom.

No one can be justified by the law.

True. Gal. 2:16

In Judaism we have the expectation of the coming Messiah, who came, Yeshua, Jesus.

Christians as well.

For a Jew to be born again is something that you should consider.

I'm not sure what you mean by this could you please explain. Jesus told Nicodemus,a Jew, by water and the Spirit.

We do have the new covenant in Yeshua. It is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts.

I agree. Is it only for them?

 

[Jacob]

True. Gal. 2:16

Christians as well.


I'm not sure what you mean by this could you please explain. Jesus told Nicodemus,a Jew, by water and the Spirit.


I agree. Is it only for them?

Shalom.

I am a Jew, and / or of Israel. I converted to Judaism. The new covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. Prior knowledge of the covenant that God made with Israel at Mount Sinai is helpful. I observe Torah, the 613 Commandments of Torah.

Nicodemus was born of water at his birth. Jesus explained to him that he must be born again, born of the Spirit.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[CherubRam]

Shalom.

No one can be justified by the law.

In Judaism we have the expectation of the coming Messiah, who came, Yeshua, Jesus.

For a Jew to be born again is something that you should consider.

We do have the new covenant in Yeshua. It is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts.

Shalom.

Jacob

House of Israel and the house of Judah is parabolic for the (nation) and the (faithful.) That includes Gentile converts.

 

[turbosixx]

Shalom.

I am a Jew, and / or of Israel. I converted to Judaism. The new covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. Prior knowledge of the covenant that God made with Israel at Mount Sinai is helpful. I observe Torah, the 613 Commandments of Torah.

It sounds like you are seeking to be justified by the law.

Paul said Jews have been released from the law.
Rom. 7:6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

Nicodemus was born of water at his birth. Jesus explained to him that he must be born again, born of the Spirit.

That is not the water Jesus was speaking of. Everyone meets that requirement. The water he is speaking of is baptism as seen here.
Matt. 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

The Jews to first hear the gospel were baptized in water and received the Spirit.
Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Jacob]

House of Israel and the house of Judah is parabolic for the (nation) and the (faithful.) That includes Gentile converts.

Shalom.

If you convert to Judaism you are no longer a Gentile. I do not know what you mean by parabolic.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Jacob]

It sounds like you are seeking to be justified by the law.

Paul said Jews have been released from the law.
Rom. 7:6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.



That is not the water Jesus was speaking of. Everyone meets that requirement. The water he is speaking of is baptism as seen here.
Matt. 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

The Jews to first hear the gospel were baptized in water and received the Spirit.
Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Shalom.

I am not seeking to be justified by the law. Also, Jesus was not talking about water baptism. He said born of the flesh is your first birth.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[turbosixx]

Shalom.

I am not seeking to be justified by the law.

Correct me if I'm wrong but when you say "I observe Torah, the 613 Commandments of Torah" isn't that observance of the law?

Also, Jesus was not talking about water baptism. He said born of the flesh is your first birth.

Shalom.

Jacob

I'm curious why you see it that way. First, everyone meets that requirement so why would Jesus even mention it?
Second, he doesn't say it's your first birth. I can see how someone who wants it to read that way can take that view of the passage. I believe he's talking about the water of baptism. I suggest let's put each to the test by looking at other passages to see which view point is supported scripture. I'll start with this one.

Here we see people who have been born and have received the Holy Spirit but look at what Peter says.
Acts 10:47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
Peter sees they have met the Spirit requirement but are lacking the water of baptism.

Do you have a passage to support your view of Jn 3?

 

[CherubRam]

Shalom.

If you convert to Judaism you are no longer a Gentile. I do not know what you mean by parabolic.

Shalom.

Jacob

I suggest that you do a Internet search for the word (PARABLE.)

 

[Jacob]

Correct me if I'm wrong but when you say "I observe Torah, the 613 Commandments of Torah" isn't that observance of the law?



I'm curious why you see it that way. First, everyone meets that requirement so why would Jesus even mention it?
Second, he doesn't say it's your first birth. I can see how someone who wants it to read that way can take that view of the passage. I believe he's talking about the water of baptism. I suggest let's put each to the test by looking at other passages to see which view point is supported scripture. I'll start with this one.

Here we see people who have been born and have received the Holy Spirit but look at what Peter says.
Acts 10:47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
Peter sees they have met the Spirit requirement but are lacking the water of baptism.

Do you have a passage to support your view of Jn 3?

Shalom.

Yes, you can see it that way. That observance of Torah is observance of the Law.

I stand by what John 3 says, and believe that water in the passage you are talking about is water for baptism, or water baptism. I do not havery another passage to help you interpret John 3. You have to read John 3 to interpret it.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Jacob]

I suggest that you do a Internet search for the word (PARABLE.)

Shalom.

No thank you. I know what a parable is.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[turbosixx]

Shalom.

Yes, you can see it that way. That observance of Torah is observance of the Law.

I'm curious why you would want to observe the old law now that there is a new and living way.
Heb. 10:19 Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh

I do not havery another passage to help you interpret John 3. You have to read John 3 to interpret it.

There is no interpretation of scripture, we either understand the truth or we don't.

I would suggest that if we cannot find any other passages in the bible to support our understanding of a passage but there are plenty of passages that support a different understanding, then I strongly suggest taking serious consideration of the different understanding.

 

[Jacob]

I'm curious why you would want to observe the old law now that there is a new and living way.
Heb. 10:19 Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh



There is no interpretation of scripture, we either understand the truth or we don't.

I would suggest that if we cannot find any other passages in the bible to support our understanding of a passage but there are plenty of passages that support a different understanding, then I strongly suggest taking serious consideration of the different understanding.

Shalom.

I have no problem with water baptism. I just do not believe that Jesus in John 3 was talking about water baptism. As a Jew I can ask you if you are familiar with a mikvah. Read the scriptures for what they say. Do not read something else in to it.

Do you observe the Law?

What law is being spoken of in Jeremiah 31:31-34?

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[turbosixx]

Shalom.

I have no problem with water baptism. I just do not believe that Jesus in John 3 was talking about water baptism. As a Jew I can ask you if you are familiar with a mikvah. Read the scriptures for what they say. Do not read something else in to it.

I’m no bible expert but I know it fairly well. I have never seen a mikvah in scripture so I’m not familiar with it. Could you please point me to some scriptures about it.

Do you observe the Law?

I do not observe the old law for a few reasons. The law was for the Jews and I’m not a Jew in the flesh. Jesus abolished the law almost 2,000 years ago, Eph. 2:15. The old law wasn't meant to be permanent but it was to lead us to the Messiah. Now that the Messiah has come we are no longer under the old law.
Gal. 3:24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

What law is being spoken of in Jeremiah 31:31-34?

Shalom.

Jacob

Jeremiah is talking about the law of Christ. It's also called by other names but that's what it is. Just as Moses was the law giver of the old law, Jesus is the law giver of the new law.

Look at what Paul says here. Paul was born a Jew in the flesh but if you notice he says he became as a Jew and says he's not under the old law but under the law of Christ.
1 Cor. 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

 

[Jacob]

I’m no bible expert but I know it fairly well. I have never seen a mikvah in scripture so I’m not familiar with it. Could you please point me to some scriptures about it.



I do not observe the old law for a few reasons. The law was for the Jews and I’m not a Jew in the flesh. Jesus abolished the law almost 2,000 years ago, Eph. 2:15. The old law wasn't meant to be permanent but it was to lead us to the Messiah. Now that the Messiah has come we are no longer under the old law.
Gal. 3:24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.



Jeremiah is talking about the law of Christ. It's also called by other names but that's what it is. Just as Moses was the law giver of the old law, Jesus is the law giver of the new law.

Look at what Paul says here. Paul was born a Jew in the flesh but if you notice he says he became as a Jew and says he's not under the old law but under the law of Christ.
1 Cor. 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

Shalom.

One of the requirements of a Mikvah is a body of fresh water. I do not know where in scripture this would be found, but it is Jewish. The best way that I know of explaining it is a baptism where the person being baptised or undergoing immersion is or remains untouched.

You say that you are not a Jew, and I must say that the Law has not been abolished.

I do not know that Jeremiah was, as you say, talking about the law of Christ. I do not see that.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[turbosixx]

You say that you are not a Jew, and I must say that the Law has not been abolished.

I only know what the bible tells me.
Eph. 2:14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
Rom. 7:6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

I do not know that Jeremiah was, as you say, talking about the law of Christ. I do not see that.

What do you see in reference to Jeremiah?

What is your understanding of this passage in Hebrews where the writer tells us Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant then quotes the Jeremiah passage?
Heb. 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises,
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,

 

[Jacob]

I only know what the bible tells me.
Eph. 2:14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
Rom. 7:6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.





What do you see in reference to Jeremiah?

What is your understanding of this passage in Hebrews where the writer tells us Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant then quotes the Jeremiah passage?
Heb. 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises,
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,

Shalom.

The Law has not been abolished. The enmity has been abolished. God will help you with your perspective of all of this. I understand that there is a new covenant, not like the old, which the people broke. It is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts. It came in Yeshua HaMashiach, Jesus the Christ.

Shalom.

Jacob