So you accept that Peter James and John are of the body of Christ along with Paul.
ECT The Mystery: What and Why
- Thread starter Danoh
- Start date
So you accept that Peter James and John are of the body of Christ along with Paul.
Right Divider
Body part
They were IN CHRIST, just NOT in the same way.
Peter was NOT preaching the gospel of the grace of God in Act 2-8.
If you don't like that, your argument is with the scripture.
Interplanner
Well-known member
This being nigh is not the sense in Eph 3. He was using OT language about the coming inclusion of the Gentiles, because the prophets is where the rust and muck is scraped off the original promises and clarified as being in Messiah, not in Judaism. See the Greek text notes on phrases being quoted from Is 52, 57 and Zech 9 in Eph 2:17. The Jews were 'near' the Gentiles were 'far off.' They get made into one 'anthropos' (humanity?) and they share in the promises, covenants, citizenship, fellowship as equals, 3:1-6. Through the Gospel, not through events in modern Israel or something like that.
Titus 1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
You know, Interplanner...now that I am back to the peace with others I once had upon encountering their different understandings of some things, I find myself having found something I'd allowed myself to lose.
Years ago, when I first began to see, not simply Mid Acts Pauline Dispensationalism, but Mid Acts Pauline Grace, I found I could read the words of those who differed and still learn much of value.
I recall reading a booklet back then that was against Mid Acts.
And that I was able to pick up some things here and there about how one thing or another had worked in the OT that I'd not thought on. And I found myself able to rejoice in that.
This, though its author had not only misrepresented Mid Acts, but at times was obviously being dishonest.
Just goes to show the enablement the grace that is in Christ Jesus is able to enable.
Thus, while I do not see eye to eye with you as to your understandings on some things, I do appreciate some of the things you have every so often brought out about one thing or another.
I say all this well aware that our respective paradigms obviously greatly differ.
Thanks for the contribution your posts have continued to make to my own awareness.
I can see now even more why Paul at times is found even appreciating that aspect of the wisdom of some secular source where doing so did not violate his own understanding.
Right Divider
Body part
Gentiles were always allowed to join with Israel. This was NOT something new after the cross.
Exo 12:48-51 KJV And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. (49) One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you. (50) Thus did all the children of Israel; as the LORD commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they. (51) And it came to pass the selfsame day, that the LORD did bring the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their armies.
One law for the home-born AND unto the stranger that sojorneth among you (the "you" being Israel).
The Gentiles that were "afar off" were the one's that had NOT joined with Israel.
These "afar off" Gentiles were abandoned long ago when God chose Israel as His people.
I'd have to disagree, Tot, there is an illogic to some of what heir asserts that is obviously a result of her own first impression, surface level reading into a thing.
She refuses to consider that. But it is one aspect behind her "heir-er" that is also the case when and where you yourself are off-base, when you are.
This aspect is also the case when any of us are - when and where - we each are.
This is why each of us must not allow ourselves to take having pointed out to us where we are off; why we must not take that personally.
Because we keep ourselves in bondage to being unable to learn even from the most seemingky odd contributions of another.
The best to the both of you in this...to each of us in this...
Hi , and since Gal 3:28 says that all lose there IDENTITY in the Body of Christ into a NEW MAN ( Eph 2:15 ) the 12 could never be in the Body as the 12 have to sit on 12 thrones in the MILLENNIUM in Matt 19:25 .
The 12 apostles or any Jew cannot be in 2 places at one time as Jews will be in the Millennial Kingdom and never be seated in the Heavenly at the same time be Omni-presence !!
dan p
brewmama
New member
They weren't "abandoned", it's just that God need a pure and chosen race to bring forth Jesus. That was the whole point.
heir
TOL Subscriber
You are just proof that while I can make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, I can't make them believe it.
Oh wouldn't that be great if all 'Christians" were taught the truth by faithful men who are able to teach others also (Ephesians 4:10-15 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:2 KJV) as they 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV ?!
heir
TOL Subscriber
Yes, and it's "by the cross" not "at the cross" (Totton twiiiiiiist)!
Ephesians 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
heir
TOL Subscriber
They are not. God doesn't have half of the Body of Christ waiting for the blotting out of sins (Acts 3:19-21 KJV) while we in the other half have now received the atonement (Romans 5:11 KJV). Get a grip!
heir
TOL Subscriber
You go on about why you broke fellowship with me.
Well, I am not worried about fellowship with you and or yours. If its there; it's there, and if it's not; its not.
And personally, I believe I've gotten the better part of the bargain - fellowship with you and or yours means your support of one another in your ugliness towards anyone who does not see your view.
Me; I'd rather be called out when I behave in such a grace-less manner.
You also allow your own to post one error or another, if not one difference or another, you do not all hold to.
Me - again, I prefer being called out when I am off-base somewhere.
It is why I rib others instead of lash out at them. My ego is just not the issue it would have me believe otherwise.
Ironic. You and yours ignore any post of mine that is in agreement with you in some area. Out of this odd notion of what constitutes fellowship within your ranks.
And yet, the moment I call any of you on anything, my posts are all of sudden worth responding to - with venom.
Do you not see the hypocrisy in that?
Still, it does allow me to call you on your misrepresentations of Mid Acts :rotfl:
YOU gave me the freedom you each should allow one another, lol
Man does this duplicity of yours crack - me - up.
When, regrettably...
I am not shaking my head at how dissapointing you have all turned out, and continue to.
One would have hoped that kind of thing had died with the passing of some of the previous, now dead, Mid Acts leadership.
heir
TOL Subscriber
You poor thing; you don't see your lack of grace in how you CHOOSE TO respond.
See, that is where Establisment Truth comes in and is all about - in its "teaching us..." Grace.
Nevertheless, your response just gives me the opportunity to obey a few passages - see this that follows, dear sister - its for us..."as ye have been taught..."
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
Hah, that blah, blah reminds me of that little doll that used to say "Talk to the hand, talk to the hand..."
Thanks for that memory
What a hypocrite you are.
Why do you not stick with my username when addressing me?
Paul does not say they lose their identity, in another place he says "I myself am a Jew, a Pharisee, of the tribe of Benjamin.
But in the body neither Jew or Gentile counts...yet y'all say it DOES...for a Jew in the body of Christ is counted differently by you...I do not buy that Paul instituted the body of Christ....we are made one body by the blood of Christ.
Yes the 12 sit on thrones..."ye who have followed Me in the regeneration" regeneration means new birth...y'all don't believe in being born again...those thrones are set up in heaven.
The church reign with Christ in heaven, the Jews reign with Christ on earth
But those Jews which reign on earth are not the church, they are present day and future Israel.
You fail to see that distinction.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Actually, you both make 2P2P distinctions that the NT does not, and are both wrong on those points. There is no church in heaven Jews on earth reign. Total nonsense.
Hi and look up what the Greek word ENI means and it means that in the PRESENT TENSE of the dispensation of the Grace of God , ARE YOU READING , ttere CAN NOT BE or kit can be translated NEITHER BE Jews or GREEKS in the Body of Christ !!
All anti-Paul and anti-Grace people need to understand dispensationalism and practice 2 Tim 2:15 !!:chuckle::chuckle:
dan p
*
It is not difficult fella
There was a time when there were no Gentiles, then Peter was sent to Cornelius and folks started preaching to the Gentiles at Antioch.
Whether they were Jews before or Gentiles after does not matter for at the cross they were made one new man, one body.