The Musicians Lounge

[elohiym]

The video below is an example of what I'm trying to achieve in terms of skill level and playing experience. Picture my ten year old son and me doing that together. He's not as good as that ten year old yet; but neither am I. :chuckle: When I can sit there with several of my children playing at the level, it will be a very happy day. And if, in addition to that, I can play for dancers and parties, all the better.

doumbek rhythym solo

 

[fzappa13]

Agreed. I sensed that connection, which is what sparked my interest in bass.

What's funny is that every guitar player thinks they can play the bass (it's only got 4 strings, you know?) but it is nearly always a train wreck when they give it a go. I only played in one band where me and another guy could swap out without getting that look from the singer.

 

[elohiym]

Feeling old.

Okay. I was wondering if that's what you meant.

 

[PureX]

What's funny is that every guitar player thinks they can play the bass (it's only got 4 strings, you know?) but it is nearly always a train wreck when they give it a go. I only played in one band where me and another guy could swap out without getting that look from the singer.

I was one of those. Though I never thought it would be easy. I just liked to play the bass. But could only manage the simplest of 'walking boogie' type songs. I had played 6-string guitar for many years, and so always had to be the guitar-player in the group. But even to this day I think I'd of had more fun if I'd have learned to play the bass.

I liked playing drums, too, and was a little bit better at that. Though not much.

 

[fzappa13]

I was one of those. Though I never thought it would be easy. I just liked to play the bass. But could only manage the simplest of 'walking boogie' type songs. I had played 6-string guitar for many years, and so always had to be the guitar-player in the group. But even to this day I think I'd of had more fun if I'd have learned to play the bass.

I liked playing drums, too, and was a little bit better at that. Though not much.

Well, I'm glad this thread afforded you the opportunity to come out of the closet. :chuckle:

 

[fzappa13]

The video below is an example of what I'm trying to achieve in terms of skill level and playing experience. Picture my ten year old son and me doing that together. He's not as good as that ten year old yet; but neither am I. :chuckle: When I can sit there with several of my children playing at the level, it will be a very happy day. And if, in addition to that, I can play for dancers and parties, all the better.

doumbek rhythym solo

It's one of the more appealing aspects of the Appalachian tradition that music was both a familial and communal pursuit.

 

[fzappa13]

I was one of those. Though I never thought it would be easy. I just liked to play the bass. But could only manage the simplest of 'walking boogie' type songs. I had played 6-string guitar for many years, and so always had to be the guitar-player in the group. But even to this day I think I'd of had more fun if I'd have learned to play the bass.

I liked playing drums, too, and was a little bit better at that. Though not much.

Swing was kind of a universal translator for me. It allowed me an appreciation of several different styles that incorporated it.

 

[fzappa13]

One of the things that frustrated me the most was not being able to sing and play at the same time. I only did it in one band I was in and it was so hard it took the fun right out of it for me. What really aggravates me is drummers that can sing. Not only do they have all four limbs going ( something I can't do) but they sing too.

... and then there a people like Marcus Mumford who's singing, playing a guitar, pounding a kick drum with one foot and playing a tambourine with the other ... why doesn't the showoff just stick a flute-a-phone in his rear and play that at the same time too?

:madmad:

 

[PureX]

One of the things that frustrated me the most was not being able to sing and play at the same time. I only did it in one band I was in and it was so hard it took the fun right out of it for me. What really aggravates me is drummers that can sing. Not only do they have all four limbs going ( something I can't do) but they sing too.

... and then there a people like Marcus Mumford who's singing, playing a guitar, pounding a kick drum with one foot and playing a tambourine with the other ... why doesn't the showoff just stick a flute-a-phone in his rear and play that at the same time too?

:madmad:

How about guys like Steve Winwood; lead singing, playing two keyboards with his hands, and bass with his feet.

 

[fzappa13]

How about guys like Steve Winwood; lead singing, playing two keyboards with his hands, and bass with his feet.

Ah, now you're sliding into a unique subset of musical coordination made possible by the production of the venerable Hammond B-3 organ. This allowed for the possibility of playing true bass lines with your feet while freeing your hands to explore previously unrealized possibilities. Jimmy Smith was the grand daddy of this school that has since all but disappeared as the popularity of Jazz and the B3 waxed and waned. Some of his bass lines were quite good owing to the fact that he played some bass. This set up lead to a coordination challenge that was unique in its demands.

I remember reading an interview with a practitioner of this style whose name now escapes me and he related a conversation he had while on break with a patron who said he didn't think he was actually playing those bass lines with his feet. He invited the guy to place his fingers under his bass pedals when he got off break and then tell him whether he was playing with his feet or not.

Though cathedral organs had used bass pedals as drone tones for centuries they weren't really exploited to their potential until some time later. The musical needs of the time being what they were no doubt contributed to this. I'm sure it wasn't anticipated that centuries later Zappa's then keyboard player, Don Preston, would scale Royal Albert Hall to gain access to its organ to play the signature riff of "Louis Louis" for their guitar player who feigned ignorance of it.

Check this out about a minute and 50 seconds in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTLhR8hrYHI

 

[Buzzword]

One of the things that frustrated me the most was not being able to sing and play at the same time. I only did it in one band I was in and it was so hard it took the fun right out of it for me.

Since voice was the first instrument I was trained to use, it's been in the background every time I've picked up a new non-wind instrument.
Especially with messing around on guitar, since that's an instant conversation piece pretty much regardless of setting.

What really aggravates me is drummers that can sing. Not only do they have all four limbs going ( something I can't do) but they sing too.

I'm a huge fan of Roger Taylor for this reason and many others.

My wife has always wanted to be a drummer, but stayed too focused on her vocal training to have any time to try until recently.
I bought her a used electric drum set online a couple of months ago, and it's been one of her favorite forms of evening stress release, especially when playing a hard rock or metal album in the background.
Even though her coordination is taking awhile to develop in this particular area.

 

[Daniel1611]

I'm buying a banjo. I play guitar, but I want to learn folk songs on a banjo. I love listening to guys like Dave Macon and Pete Seeger play banjo.

 

[fzappa13]

Since voice was the first instrument I was trained to use, it's been in the background every time I've picked up a new non-wind instrument.
Especially with messing around on guitar, since that's an instant conversation piece pretty much regardless of setting.

As you know, whether singing or playing a wind instrument, your phrasing is dictated to certain extent by your lung capacity and this influences your thinking when choosing your phrasing. An interesting case study in this is seen in the career of one of the preeminent guitar players on the planet, Pat Metheny. He started out playing trumpet and switched to guitar out of necessity when he got braces. His start with the trumpet influenced the way he phrased on guitar and it is one of the reasons he is maybe more “accessible” than most of the guitar gods in that his phrasing is, in this respect, more believable. As the years rolled on the guitar synthesizer was developed and this allowed him to access a trumpet sound with his guitar and re-explore his first love and the results were very believable. Of course, all rules are made to be broken and the opening phrase in his solo on “Third Wind” is this maniacal, break neck, jail break that would have left anyone blowing into a horn or singing passed out a third of the way through from too little wind and too much thinking.

I'm a huge fan of Roger Taylor for this reason and many others.

My wife has always wanted to be a drummer, but stayed too focused on her vocal training to have any time to try until recently.
I bought her a used electric drum set online a couple of months ago, and it's been one of her favorite forms of evening stress release, especially when playing a hard rock or metal album in the background.
Even though her coordination is taking awhile to develop in this particular area.

Play an electronic drum, go to jail. Well, maybe it's not that bad but … once the Hispanic bands discovered those things they all played them and … well … let's just say the sound is somewhat “dated” as a result.

 

[fzappa13]

I'm buying a banjo. I play guitar, but I want to learn folk songs on a banjo. I love listening to guys like Dave Macon and Pete Seeger play banjo.

Ever heard of Bela Fleck? (yes, I'm up to no good)

 

[Buzzword]

As you know, whether singing or playing a wind instrument, your phrasing is dictated to certain extent by your lung capacity and this influences your thinking when choosing your phrasing. An interesting case study in this is seen in the career of one of the preeminent guitar players on the planet, Pat Metheny. He started out playing trumpet and switched to guitar out of necessity when he got braces. His start with the trumpet influenced the way he phrased on guitar and it is one of the reasons he is maybe more “accessible” than most of the guitar gods in that his phrasing is, in this respect, more believable. As the years rolled on the guitar synthesizer was developed and this allowed him to access a trumpet sound with his guitar and re-explore his first love and the results were very believable. Of course, all rules are made to be broken and the opening phrase in his solo on “Third Wind” is this maniacal, break neck, jail break that would have left anyone blowing into a horn or singing passed out a third of the way through from too little wind and too much thinking.

Fascinating.
I had a similar experience going from piano to guitar, regarding how chords are constructed.
On piano (and in the music theory classes I took during my first year of college), chords are built from the bottom up.
So when I first picked up a guitar, I was reaching waaaay across the strings to hold down frets for the lowest strings first, and worked my way up.
When I ran out of fingers, I didn't play the upper strings.

My fingertips didn't start hurting until a more guitar-savvy friend showed me an easier way to play Tom Petty's "Freefallin'", using only the top three strings.
Building chords from the top down is like trying to make myself lefthanded, but I'm getting there.

Play an electronic drum, go to jail. Well, maybe it's not that bad but … once the Hispanic bands discovered those things they all played them and … well … let's just say the sound is somewhat “dated” as a result.

:chuckle:
Well, in our case it was mostly a matter of convenience.
We're living in a duplex at the moment, so we can't rock out like we'd really do if we had a house.

 

[elohiym]

I'm buying a banjo. I play guitar, but I want to learn folk songs on a banjo. I love listening to guys like Dave Macon and Pete Seeger play banjo.

I had the privilege of meeting Pete Seeger and spending some time with him on several occasions. One night we had dinner at my friends house, and afterwords, sitting less than six feet in front of me, he played Little Boxes and some other folk songs on his banjo, the one that read: "This machine surrounds hate and forces it to surrender."

 

[elohiym]

My wife has always wanted to be a drummer, but stayed too focused on her vocal training to have any time to try until recently.
I bought her a used electric drum set online a couple of months ago, and it's been one of her favorite forms of evening stress release, especially when playing a hard rock or metal album in the background.
Even though her coordination is taking awhile to develop in this particular area.

As an ambassador of my instrument, may I suggest she learns to play the Middle Eastern hand drum called an Alexandrian style doumbek. When a person who is meant to play that drum gives it try, the drum will "speak" to that person. She may try it and find it's not for her, but she will not really know until she tries. There are advantages to the hand drum over a kit, too, like low noise without being electric (unless you play loud) and the ability to easily take your instrument with you anywhere. Learn to play with her and you can have a blast playing together like my wife and I do.

 

[elohiym]

Concerning advice for those considering pursuing music for a career I have long said that if you can avoid it you should ... if not, by all means, do go on.

When I said "play professionally" I meant busking with my son or maybe recording some belly dance compositions and selling them on iTunes. I couldn't handle the hours a professional musician has to work playing clubs, couldn't handle touring and wouldn't enjoy the time away from my family. I can imagine many reasons to avoid pursuing a music career.

 

[elohiym]

One of the things that frustrated me the most was not being able to sing and play at the same time. I only did it in one band I was in and it was so hard it took the fun right out of it for me. What really aggravates me is drummers that can sing. Not only do they have all four limbs going ( something I can't do) but they sing too.

I'm picturing Don Henley playing drums while singing Hotel California. Saw him do that at Giants Stadium when I was a teenager.

... and then there a people like Marcus Mumford who's singing, playing a guitar, pounding a kick drum with one foot and playing a tambourine with the other ... why doesn't the showoff just stick a flute-a-phone in his rear and play that at the same time too?

:madmad:

:chuckle:

We (Middle Eastern drummers) call the ability to play two rhythm parts simultaneously with the right and left hand separation of senses. Check out this example from a master player of my instrument. He is considered the "father" of the Turkish split hand technique and is showing off here by playing two drums at the same time.

Misirli Ahmet Solo

 

[fzappa13]

Fascinating.
I had a similar experience going from piano to guitar, regarding how chords are constructed.
On piano (and in the music theory classes I took during my first year of college), chords are built from the bottom up.
So when I first picked up a guitar, I was reaching waaaay across the strings to hold down frets for the lowest strings first, and worked my way up.
When I ran out of fingers, I didn't play the upper strings.

Chord structure on a piano and guitar are two different animals but there are some interesting similarities. To me, the sound of an open string was much preferable to that of one that is fretted and so I was constantly looking for ways to play chords in what might be termed unorthodox ways to incorporate as many open strings as possible on the guitar. On a piano all strings are open (not fretted) hence its rich sound. The advantage that the guitar has is that you can easily manipulate the string in a variety of ways to achieve a palate of sounds not available on the piano. There are those that will pop the lid on a piano and mess around in there from time to time during a performance but this is something of a novelty. The advantage the piano has is that, until you hit the mute pedal, you have all these glorious possibilities presented by all those unfretted strings.

My fingertips didn't start hurting until a more guitar-savvy friend showed me an easier way to play Tom Petty's "Freefallin'", using only the top three strings.
Building chords from the top down is like trying to make myself lefthanded, but I'm getting there.

Another advantage that piano has is that it is probably the most pain free instrument to play. Most all others require some sacrifice whether it be maintaining embouchure, callouses or both. Indeed, the upright bass might be considered acceptable as an athletic event in the Olympics were it's requirements more widely appreciated.