glorydaz
Well-known member
That must be it. Blame it on Adam. :chuckle:
ECT The Most Misunderstood Passage in the Bible--Romans 5:12-18
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
That must be it. Blame it on Adam. :chuckle:
God's Truth
New member
You spoke against the scriptures and now you are trying to cover it up.
We die to the sins of this world. We died to sin you say but not sins of the world! lol
Lon
Well-known member
This comes from Wikipedia.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Naw, I blame it on God, knowing He don't need me to ascribe anything to Him.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I am speaking of the death in this passage in "bold":
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" (Ro.5:12).
I did not. I cited the following verses to demonstrate that Romans 5:12 is not speaking of a "physical" death:
When mankind was denied access to the tree of life it was destined that all men will die physically (Gen.3:22-24;Heb.9:27).
When men sin they die "spritually." That means that before they sin they are alive spiritually. That means that no one emerges from the womb spiritually dead.
And what was your response? Instead of citing Scripture to support your position you tell me I cannot possibly be right because most Christians do not agree with me!
And instead of discussing what is really being said at Romans 5:12 you say that I moved from one death to another.
The only thing that you haved proved so far is that you put more faith in what some men say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually say.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Is that your source of information? I prefer the years of talking to brothers and sisters in the Lord that are not in the habit of labeling people based on one's own understanding of original sin. You have your own ideas about it that don't fit in with many others. I've watched you explain away babies being damned versus being given some special unnamed pass, and your lack of accepting Christ has the same nature the rest of us do.
Your own verses don't even support what you claim to believe.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Exactly right. :thumb:
Lon
Well-known member
This last italics is your own quote, not scripture. I'm not trying to introduce further scriptures, this discussion is all about Romans chapter 5. I did mention other verses in Romans. As I said previously, Chapter 5 starts in chapter 3 of addressing Jews with the Law. Paul eventually gets back to discussing all men where there is no longer Jew or gentile, male, female, slave or free.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Cool, so you died to my sins. You must be some special gal. :chuckle:
God's Truth
New member
You prove you have no understanding. I died to any sins that you can think of doing and then some.
How about that? Does that help you to understand?
Here are some more scriptures to rebuke you with...they are about dying to the SINS OF THE WORLD.
Galatians 6:14
But as for me, may I never boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
Colossians 2:20
If you have died with Christ to the spiritual forces of the world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its regulations:
Can you really not figure out what Paul is talking about when he says to DIE to sins...DIE to the WORLD.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I completely agree with you. Do you agree with what we read the following in The Popular Encyclopedia of Bible Prophecy:
"The Edenic covenant is tied to the dispensation of innocence, whereby God tested man to see if he would live by God's conditions. God told man not to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:17). The dispensation ended in man's failure--Eve was deceived (1 Timothy 2:14) and Adam deliberately disobeyed. As a result, the first man had personal and experiental knowledge of good and evil. What seemed like a simple, limited act of eating fruit ended in a broad, conscious knowledge of right and wrong. In the next dispensation, the descendants of Adam were responsible for this new awareness of sin" [emphasis added] (The Popular Encyclopedia of Bible Prophecy, ed.Tim LaHaye & Ed Hindson, [Eugene: Harvest House, 2004], 86).
Do you believe that before he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that Adam lived in a state of innocence, not having a conscience?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Then use chapter 5 to prove that this verse is speaking of a death which belonged to Adam and was imputed to all his descendants:
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" (Ro.5:12).
Use chapter 5 to prove that the Calvinists are right when they say that Adam's death in sin was conveyed to all his posterity:
"They (Adam & Eve) being the root of mankind, the guilt of this sin was imputed, and the same death in sin and corrupted nature conveyed to all their posterity, descending from them by original generation" [emphasis added] (The Westminster Confession of Faith; VI/3).
Lon
Well-known member
Romans 5:2 We stand in 'grace' There is no need for grace, where there is no trespass or sin
Romans 5:6 Christ died for the ungodly *no mention of the righteous child, scripture assumes it is not so else the doctrine, I'd think would be spelled out.
Romans 5:8 'yet sinners' all of us, no exception vs 7 contrasts that someone 'might' die for a righteous person, but it is a hypothetical to point to Christ, who died for all of us, 'yet sinners' when He died. The contrast is how much He loved all of us: as sinners.
Romans 5:10 "while we were enemies" again, all of us
Romans 5:11 "reconciliation" which demands we were unreconciled to God formerly, all of us
Enter then, Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—
We inherited sin because it came from Adam, both sin and death.
Does it then mean, that death comes because 'all sinned' or because of the condition? IOW, does the verb "sinned' that we all have done, bring death, or did Adam give us both sin and death in the same lump?
Romans 5:13 begins talking of Sin counted against us legally then verse 14 says, death reigned regardless if the Law found one guilty or not
Romans 5:18 however says that we are all condemned under Adam and verse 19 says we were all 'made sinners' by Adam and importantly, for this thread, such would necessarily mean 'from birth.' -Lon
Your X-Wing precision is always appreciated! May the 4th be with you.
Interplanner
Well-known member
where is the evidence that this is the most misunderstood passage? I don't recall it being discussed very much here or elsewhere.
John 3 is about Israel. Go read verse 8, and not 3 which people wrongly bring up. Gentiles could come to God through Israel. Therefore, John 3:16 is correct about the whole world, even though it is not about the Body of Christ.
You don't.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
In the words of [MENTION=13959]meshak[/MENTION].....
"This place is circus." :crackup: