The Missing Links in the Fossil Record

[iouae]

You obviously DON'T understand it.
I'm going to use Young's Literal Translation to show this, since most translations don't properly reflect an important nuance that is in the Hebrew.
Genesis 1
8 ...."day second."
13 .... "day third."
19 .... "day fourth."
23 ...."day fifth."
31 ... "day the sixth."

In the Hebrew, these are called 'ordinal'numbers.
But... Why is Day 1 not an ordinal number...IE. Why doesn't the Hebrew call it 'the first day'?
Again Youngs Literal translation says this...
Genesis 1:5 "and God calleth to the light `Day,' and to the darkness He hath called `Night;' and there is an evening, and there is a morning -- day one."

"Day one"... not, 'day first' (or first day). This is significant because it is now a 'cardinal' number in the Hebrew.
There was no other days before this time. And, it was so far thee only day. There was only that one day.... Thus the cardinal number is apt.

6days, do you think it makes it any more favourable to your case if God calls it day "one" or the "first" day. First sounds just as strong as day "one" because there can be only one first, but there can be many "one's".

Every week we have a day "one" called Sunday.
There has to be an absolute or cardinal day one, for us to have relative or ordinal day two...seventh day. The seventh day would be meaningless unless we knew that it was the seventh from something, and we have to know the absolute or cardinal value of day one (Sunday) to be able to count the ordinal or relative seventh day Sabbath to be Saturday.

Once we have established the day to count from, then it makes less difference whether we call Monday the "second" day, or day "two".

But how did you like my proof that on day "egad" (Heb) all God made was light.
We know what God made on each day by God saying what He was about to make. And God SAID "let there be light". God did not SAY "Let there be heavens and earth, and let there be light". Why? Because there already was a heaven and earth and God did not speak it into existence on day ONE.

 

[6days]

First sounds just as strong as day "one" because there can be only one first, but there can be many "one's".

Sunday is the first day day of the week. Jan. 1 is the first day of the year. There can be many 'firsts'. The word first is an ordinal number.


The author of the Torah used a variety of ways to let us know that God created everything in six literal days. The author also used a cardinal, not an ordinal number for the first day implying an absolute beginning.

We know what God made on each day by God saying what He was about to make.

Genesis 1:1-5 tells us what happened on day 1. The Summary statement is in verse 1, with details following. We can see that pattern throughout Scripture.


Have you noticed verse 1 does not start with 'God began creating on the first day'? Perhaps wording like that might allow some linguistic gymnastics for you to say 'God recreated in Genesis 1'. Instead, The first Hebrew word in the Bible is 'bereshit'... an absolute beginning because it appears as a proper noun without the article.


We also know that 'heavens and the earth' in verse 1 refers to the totality of creation as you would expect in a summary. See Genesis 14:19 and 22... Exodus 20:11... 2 Kings 19:15... Psalm 121:2. The Hebrew language refers to a phrase like this as a merism.... 2 opposites that include everything in between.


God made the stars, moon and sun on the 4th day. God formed Eve from Adam's rib. God created the land creatures after He had created whales. Death entered our world because of one man's sin. God created the heavens and earth in six days.

 

[iouae]

The author of the Torah used a variety of ways to let us know that God created everything in six literal days. The author also used a cardinal, not an ordinal number for the first day implying an absolute beginning.

Day one was the first day of the new earth, that Sunday 6000 years ago.
It does not even use the definite article "the" here, which would make it more absolute and unique. You yourself said "egad" meant "one" but now you are using "first". It was day one, nothing more, nothing less. I say it was day one of the new earth, meaning repaired earth, you say it was day one of a newly created earth, which I say already existed before God created anything on Day 1. Day 1 was the creation of light. We see that because God SAID "let there be light". The same pattern for what God created in following days was always what God SAID.

Thus, I cannot decide which beginning is being referred to here in Genesis 1:1. Is it the Big Bang beginning, or the beginning of the new world for Adam and Eve. I personally think its neither, but more a general statement to the effect that God created everything as a beginning to the rest of The Book.

My iouae paraphrase of this would be "In beginning this story, God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth fell into disrepair. So God went down to have a look. It was dark and gloomy, so God said "let there be light..."

I don't understand what you mean by an "absolute beginning". Are you implying that "the beginning" means a specific time, every time "beginning" is used? The following verses all have beginnings but they refer to different times and beginnings. For instance "In the beginning was the Word" refers to a time before creation, as does Pr 8:22.

Gen 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Exo 12:2
This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.

1Ch 17:9
Also I will ordain a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning.

Pro 8:22
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Pro 8:23
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

Jhn 1:1
¶
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2
The same was in the beginning with God.
Jhn 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Jhn 6:64
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

Jhn 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[6days]

Day one was the first day of the new earth, that Sunday 6000 years ago.

God's Word tells us it was the first day of the heavens and earth. "New earth" is your attempt to add to Scripture.
"for six days hath Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that [is] in them" YLT

I say it was day one of the new earth, meaning repaired earth

God's Word tells us it was the first day of the heavens and earth. "Repaired earth" is your attempt to corrupt Scripture
"For in six days the Lord made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them" NLT

Thus, I cannot decide which beginning is being referred to here in Genesis 1:1.

God's Word calls it the beginning of the heavens and earth.
"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." ESV

My iouae paraphrase of this would be "In beginning this story, God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth fell into disrepair. So God went down to have a look. It was dark and gloomy, so God said "let there be light..."

Your low regard of Scripture and the nature of God has been noticed.
God's Word tells us "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day." NIV

I don't understand what you mean by an "absolute beginning".

Yes...you do. You also understand the clear meaning of Ex. 20:11, but you reject it.
"for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them" RSV

 

[User Name]

God's Word tells us it was the first day of the heavens and earth.

God's Word tells us that "all the world should be taxed" in Luke 2:1, but we all know that isn't literally true. The "world" in that context referred only to the area of the Roman Empire.

 

[iouae]

There is no such thing as an absolute beginning.


Gen 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Pro 8:22
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Pro 8:23
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.


God possessed wisdom in the beginning, before the existence of the earth.

Then the creation of the earth, which comes after this, is another beginning.

Then, when Jesus said in Jhn 6:64
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

This beginning means from the beginning of His ministry it soon became apparent which of the 12 apostles would betray Him. This beginning was around 28 AD.

And at some time After the creation of the cosmos, an evil thought came into Lucifer's head, and he became a rebel and a murderer. This beginning of evil occurred after the creation.

Jhn 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

When the Bible speaks of "in the beginning" one has to see from the context, which beginning is being referred to, because there is no one point in time consistently called "in the beginning".

 

[Interplanner]

Dr. Snelling of Australia (with John Baumgartner and Stephen Austen)finally said what I've been trying to find published on what Genesis with about 500 other accounts are trying to say:

'The collision of the earth's plates happened quickly and recently. We can tell this from the shapes or forms of the various impacts around the world...'

'If you have 2 cars set to meet each other at 1 mph, and a source of energy that cannot stop (the engine cannot die), the interface will eventually resemble something like putty against putty; there would be a plane of meeting and you would see lines in each piece melt into each other...

'But if you have 2 cars meet each other at 100 mph, you have chaos, tangles, twists, untraceable and irregular exchanges and deposits of material from one into the other...

'Whether you are in Colorado, or the Himalayas, or the Andes, what you find is much more like the 100 mph collision than the 1 mph collision. There are sedimentary settlements from clear across continents, in the thousands of feet; there are uplifts of thousands of feet; there are glommed residues from several miles below (or above) on other surfaces. They are tangled, twisted, scattered around, and most of these have the fresh-break appearance, not the faded, polished, smoothed look of millions of years...'

 

[6days]

God's Word tells us that "all the world should be taxed" in Luke 2:1, but we all know that isn't literally true. The "world" in that context referred only to the area of the Roman Empire.

Yes.... Scripture isn't that difficult to understand, if we don't try fit secular ideas into it.

 

[6days]

When the Bible speaks of "in the beginning" one has to see from the context, which beginning is being referred to, because there is no one point in time consistently called "in the beginning".!

Yes.... Scripture isn't that difficult to understand, if we don't try fit secular ideas into it.

 

[iouae]

The fossil record tells us that God has been quite busy for the last 530 million years and more.

The rocks are like a time machine, with the oldest deeds of God lower down, and His most recent doings, higher up in the fossil record. God has little helpers called bacteria which clean up after him, but occasionally they miss a spot, and leave a fossil. This ancient litter is a rare exception to God's near perfect recycling record. When things die, they usually get eaten. And yes, there was eat and be eaten from the start.

Christians are as terrified of fossils as Dracula is of garlic. These fossilised remains of ancient communities of strange animals like dinosaurs create a problem. Adam would have not lasted one day in Jurassic Park without cars and guns. But thankfully, Adam and dinosaurs are separated by a time gap of 65 million years.

Each ancient community is a testimony to the creative extravagance of God. We look around at today's fauna and flora and marvel at how God outdid Himself. Past worlds were very different but equally spectacular. And often biomes arrived complete with completely new food chains, as if the curtain came down on one world, and the curtain rose to reveal a completely new one. These bursts of creativity by God are telling us something about God.

Psa 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handiwork.
To paraphrase, cosmology declares the glory of God and palaeontology shows his handiwork.

530 million years ago, God experimented by creating the weirdest of creatures - so weird it is not clear if they were plants or animals. This was God's Ediacaran phase. These creatures were the first multicellular creatures resembling striated quilts.

These were exterminated, and in one big "whoosh" - God created most of the Phyla or groups of animals still around today. This is so un-evolutionary in that all the Phyla appear simultaneously and instantly in the Cambrian explosion. We get worms, corals, jellyfish, and especially the very complex Trilobite, resembling an aquatic woodlouse.

This is followed by an extinction event and another burst onto the scene of molluscs or the octopus family.

In the Devonian period, God goes wild with all kinds of fish species, including ones with hard outer armour.

In the Carboniferous, there is an extravagance of tall, ancient land plants.

Next the land is filled with mamal-like reptiles, meaning animals much like our mammals today, but cold-blooded, and with big protruding canine teeth. These therapsids are the size of our modern animals, but are wiped out in a mass extinction.

The curtain rises on Jurassic Park. We get the age of the dinosaurs where there are very big reptiles, and some small ones, all hungry, with big teeth and scales. Adam would have no place to hide. Even the air and sea is full of toothed reptiles.

For 165 million years these monsters terrorise each other, then one day God says "enough" and wipes every last one of them out in the Cretaceous-Tertiary (K-T) mass extinction.

Its curtains for the Age of the giant dinosaurs, and the curtain rises to reveal The age of the smaller mammals. Its almost as if God carries on from the cold-blooded Therapsids, and makes new warm-blooded, Therapsids, called Mammals, which bear live young and look after these with milk.

This new mammal dominant world is beautiful, like today. Modern plants and animals bear their young inside them. Trees carry their seeds inside fruit, and mammals carry their babies inside wombs. Dinosaurs laid eggs outside them, and the boring green trees dinosaurs ate, produced seeds outside the plant on pine-cone scales.

And after one more mass extinction, God creates modern man with domestic animals and birds, sheep, cows, chickens and all we see today. We needed these domestic animals to survive and they needed us, and we all arrive on earth together 6000 years ago.

God has been very busy through the ages. What we see around us is but 1% of everything God ever created. The other 99% is recorded indelibly in the rocks.

 

[6days]

The fossil record tells us that God has been quite busy for the last 530 million years and more.

Your acceptance of that false belief system is what has lead to your low esteem for who God is, and His Word.


Scripture tells us that in the beginning God created everything over the course of six days. You reject his Word and claim that he only recreated things.

 

[iouae]

Your acceptance of that false belief system is what has lead to your low esteem for who God is, and His Word.


Scripture tells us that in the beginning God created everything over the course of six days. You reject his Word and claim that he only recreated things.

Do you believe Adam walked with T. rex?

How do you explain fossils grouped together in strata?

I am blown away by God who created the vast Cosmos, and created consistently over time.

 

[6days]

Do you believe Adam walked with T. rex?
How do you explain fossils grouped together in strata?

God tells us He created all the land animals, and humans, on day six; of course I believe it. The fossil evidence helps confirm the truth of God's Word, and provides evidence of the nature of the global flood. There are many articles from Christian geologists and others who explain how the evidence is consistent with the Biblical account. This is the first one I clicked on, but there are many.https://www.apologeticspress.org/apPubPage.aspx?pub=2&issue=1170&article=2428

I am blown away by God who created the vast Cosmos, and created consistently over time

I am blown away by Hyundai who created a vast business empire over time. Is that the kind of 'blown away' feeling you have.... a creator who makes some pretty awesome things, but has also had some failures?


Iouae... You reject the Biblical Creators Word which has lead to your low opinion of Him, and His Word. He tells us He created everything in six days... not an experimenting process over the course of 530 million years.

 

[User Name]

Yes.... Scripture isn't that difficult to understand, if we don't try fit secular ideas into it.

There's a lot we don't understand about scripture, and some of what we think we do understand is mistaken.

 

[6days]

There's a lot we don't understand about scripture, and some of what we think we do understand is mistaken.

Well, it might surprise you but we can agree on that...and other things. We can't say we fully understand all prophecy. We might not correctly understand God's grace and how we became a believer. We might have a hard time wrapping our mind around wrapping our head around some of the scenes from the Old Testament. For ex... and YIKES!!! In Joshua 5, he made flint knives and then circumcised thousands and thousands of grown men. It is small wonder that they rest it for a couple days before they continued on their journey. So yes I agree with you there are things that sometimes seems baffling and hard to understand.


Where we don't agree is in Genesis 1. It is very clearly told as history and not allegorical. Jesus referred to it as real history as did Paul and other Bible authors. The gospel is actually dependent on the first few chapters of Genesis. If God created over the course of millions of years using a process of death and extinctions that would speak to the nature of God. That low opinion of God is evidenced in house's posts. He seems to imagine God as some super scientist who is conducting experiments.


And, if death existed before first Adam sinned, then the sacrifice last Adam made at the cross becomes meaningless. So.... apologies sort of, if it seems I defend Genesis 1 too vigorously. But, I feel that Satan is using attacks on Genesis, the foundation of the Gospel (And every Christian doctrine) driving millions away from trusting the Bible. Compromise is not the solution.

 

[User Name]

Where we don't agree is in Genesis 1. It is very clearly told as history and not allegorical.

You can believe whatever you want, but you can't prove that the Gap Theory is false any more than you can prove that MAD is false, Trinity is false, divinity of Jesus is false, etc.

 

[6days]

You can believe whatever you want, but you can't prove that the Gap Theory is false

I also can't prove that the man on the moon is false. (But, I sure can provide evidence showing its a false belief).

 

[Jonahdog]

The fossil evidence helps confirm the truth of God's Word, and provides evidence of the nature of the global flood.

Aww, no it does not. And you really know that, it is your fear of your deity that requires to continue to say this.

 

[iouae]

If God created over the course of millions of years using a process of death and extinctions that would speak to the nature of God. That low opinion of God is evidenced in house's posts. He seems to imagine God as some super scientist who is conducting experiments.

God IS a super scientist. That is one reason why I respect Him so. I have an idea of how hard it is to engineer living systems.

To you, science is a bad smell. Your posts are aimed at sanitising that bad smell. For instance if I point you to the millions of light years away of stars, you will reach for some fringe science paper (science sanitiser) to remove having to face the fact that mainstream science accepts the size and age of the universe. You will say something like "You know that a light year is a measure of distance, not time, don't you? It depends on c being constant, and we can't be sure of that". Mainstream science is pretty sure of that, and that light reaching earth from galaxies a million light years away IS a million years old.

If I draw your attention to the fossils all neatly arranged in specific communities, one community always found on top of the other worldwide, then I accept that this is not just a local phenomenon, but that these communities lived worldwide, and were buried in the order, oldest to youngest on top. But you will ignore this and repeat that God made the earth and heavens in 6 days, like some mantra. I agree that God made the current heaven, earth and sea in six days.

Folks who think that God just somehow knows everything are so PROUD of their God, who has to expend no effort thinking up how to create, say, a human. I think their view of God is frankly pathetic and demeaning. They are giving no credit to how much time, energy, work and, yes, experimentation with failure that it took for God to create a human. As a lover of science, and a dabbler into science, my respect for God is increased by an appreciation of the trouble God went to to make each complex organism.

It leaves a really bad taste in my mouth when Christians say "God knows everything" implying it's easy for Him to just spit out new creatures. To me they are just demeaning my idea of God's greatness.

It took God billions of years of fierce concentration and focus to think up this amazing world. Nothing earns my respect more.

 

[Veritas veritate]

Spoiler

The fossil record tells us that God has been quite busy for the last 530 million years and more.

The rocks are like a time machine, with the oldest deeds of God lower down, and His most recent doings, higher up in the fossil record. God has little helpers called bacteria which clean up after him, but occasionally they miss a spot, and leave a fossil. This ancient litter is a rare exception to God's near perfect recycling record. When things die, they usually get eaten. And yes, there was eat and be eaten from the start.

Christians are as terrified of fossils as Dracula is of garlic. These fossilised remains of ancient communities of strange animals like dinosaurs create a problem. Adam would have not lasted one day in Jurassic Park without cars and guns. But thankfully, Adam and dinosaurs are separated by a time gap of 65 million years.

Each ancient community is a testimony to the creative extravagance of God. We look around at today's fauna and flora and marvel at how God outdid Himself. Past worlds were very different but equally spectacular. And often biomes arrived complete with completely new food chains, as if the curtain came down on one world, and the curtain rose to reveal a completely new one. These bursts of creativity by God are telling us something about God.

Psa 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handiwork.
To paraphrase, cosmology declares the glory of God and palaeontology shows his handiwork.

530 million years ago, God experimented by creating the weirdest of creatures - so weird it is not clear if they were plants or animals. This was God's Ediacaran phase. These creatures were the first multicellular creatures resembling striated quilts.

These were exterminated, and in one big "whoosh" - God created most of the Phyla or groups of animals still around today. This is so un-evolutionary in that all the Phyla appear simultaneously and instantly in the Cambrian explosion. We get worms, corals, jellyfish, and especially the very complex Trilobite, resembling an aquatic woodlouse.

This is followed by an extinction event and another burst onto the scene of molluscs or the octopus family.

In the Devonian period, God goes wild with all kinds of fish species, including ones with hard outer armour.

In the Carboniferous, there is an extravagance of tall, ancient land plants.

Next the land is filled with mamal-like reptiles, meaning animals much like our mammals today, but cold-blooded, and with big protruding canine teeth. These therapsids are the size of our modern animals, but are wiped out in a mass extinction.

The curtain rises on Jurassic Park. We get the age of the dinosaurs where there are very big reptiles, and some small ones, all hungry, with big teeth and scales. Adam would have no place to hide. Even the air and sea is full of toothed reptiles.

For 165 million years these monsters terrorise each other, then one day God says "enough" and wipes every last one of them out in the Cretaceous-Tertiary (K-T) mass extinction.

Its curtains for the Age of the giant dinosaurs, and the curtain rises to reveal The age of the smaller mammals. Its almost as if God carries on from the cold-blooded Therapsids, and makes new warm-blooded, Therapsids, called Mammals, which bear live young and look after these with milk.

This new mammal dominant world is beautiful, like today. Modern plants and animals bear their young inside them. Trees carry their seeds inside fruit, and mammals carry their babies inside wombs. Dinosaurs laid eggs outside them, and the boring green trees dinosaurs ate, produced seeds outside the plant on pine-cone scales.

And after one more mass extinction, God creates modern man with domestic animals and birds, sheep, cows, chickens and all we see today. We needed these domestic animals to survive and they needed us, and we all arrive on earth together 6000 years ago.

God has been very busy through the ages. What we see around us is but 1% of everything God ever created. The other 99% is recorded indelibly in the rocks.

I have to hand it to you, you are a great story teller and I enjoyed reading your post; however, but you lack basic logic in all of your tale spinning. Everything you said is not based on science. It is a belief system that you must force upon the “evidence” you claim is in a so-called “fossil record” which scientifically is a record that things died and nothing more.


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