The Men's Rights movement

[musterion]

You are making an assumption. The only thing a man cannot provide is a womb for nine months and the ability to nurse a baby. They are perfectly capable of taking care of a newborn and offering nutrition via formula IF the mother wants no part of raising her child.

And such men are in fact overruled and ruled out if the mother decides to abort. There is (afaik) no legal recourse for a father who is ready, willing and able to take HIS child for himself once the mother delivers.

Which goes back to the question of why a man does not have equal rights over the child he helped create...because if the mother decides she doesn't want him to, he doesn't. She can make that happen any number of ways. Men only have responsibilities to care for the child IF the mother wants his support (and sometimes it's eventually proved the child wasn't even the man's; the mother only said it was). THAT should change.

 

[Rusha]

Actually, a man can lactate. Seriously. I kid you not.

And in case anyone is wondering, the answer is "no." :chuckle:

Oh ... well I stand correct. That was certainly interesting ... :chuckle:

 

[Rusha]

And such men are in fact overruled and ruled out if the mother decides to abort. There is (afaik) no legal recourse for a father who is ready, willing and able to take HIS child for himself once the mother delivers.

Which goes back to the question of why a man does not have equal rights over the child he helped create...because if the mother decides she doesn't want him to, he doesn't. She can make that happen any number of ways. Men only have responsibilities to care for the child IF the mother wants his support (and sometimes it's eventually proved the child wasn't even the man's; the mother only said it was). THAT should change.

I *already* agree with you that men should have the right to stop women from aborting their unborn child.

 

[musterion]

Wasn't trying to disagree with you; was just expanding on your point.

 

[elohiym]

There may be legitimate reasons to dismiss claims from both feminists and masculinists, but some claims are compelling, like the right to choose circumcision or to prevent the abortion of one's child.

The MRM doesn't really make a big deal out of either issue so I'm not really sure why you guys keep bringing them up.

Those are both male rights issues. The abortion issue was mentioned in the documentary trailer posted in the OP. People are less willing to discuss the circumcision issue for a number of reasons we don't need to get into, but it's a major male rights issue. Certainly you will agree that abortion and female circumcision are female rights issues? If you do, it should be obvious that they are male rights issues, too.

 

[elohiym]

Oh ... well I stand correct. That was certainly interesting ... :chuckle:

Thankfully women have never really demanded full equality. :chuckle:

 

[elohiym]

Which goes back to the question of why a man does not have equal rights over the child he helped create...because if the mother decides she doesn't want him to, he doesn't. She can make that happen any number of ways. Men only have responsibilities to care for the child IF the mother wants his support (and sometimes it's eventually proved the child wasn't even the man's; the mother only said it was). THAT should change.

I wonder if part of the problem is that too many men don't think that way, the way one thinks when he desires fatherhood, so they don't see the problem. Probably many don't see the problem until they are caught up in it.

 

[Rusha]

Thankfully women have never really demanded full equality. :chuckle:

Yeah ... apparently there is such a thing as *too equal* ... :chuckle:

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Oh ... well I stand correct. That was certainly interesting ... :chuckle:

So the baby has a right to breastfeed, and I think the infant should be in the custody of whomever is willing or able to make that commitment, if one parent is not.

 

[Rusha]

So the baby has a right to breastfeed, and I think the infant should be in the custody of whomever is willing or able to make that commitment, if one parent is not.

The problem I could see would be enforcing it.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

The problem I could see would be enforcing it.

I would think it would be like any other family court issue. You can't enforce a lot of things, like where the baby sleeps, but you can determine who is making the right commitments, and judge accordingly, where there is a question.

Whoever nurses the baby should be the primary or sole custodian. The two will become very bonded in a primary-care-giver-type way.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

...In fact, I believe judges already look at the impact of breastfeeding on custody issues. If men want custody of their baby, let them step up and suffer like breastfeeding women.

 

[Spitfire]

Good on them (the "MRM" in general) for exposing hypocrisy, double-standards, and disinformation or at least making it a discussion topic when they do.

But, they make a lot of the same mistakes modern radical feminists do if you ask me: crying wolf whenever possible, trying too hard to draw the worst possible picture of what they oppose at the expense of accuracy and realism - not what you want if you expect your arguments to ever be more than a shrill sermon to the choir.

 

[Rusha]

Good on them for exposing hypocrisy, double-standards, and disinformation or at least making it a discussion topic when they do.

I don't believe that hypocrisy or double standards is good for any movement.

Parenting, for example, should always be centered on what is in the best interest of the children insofar as their safety and health.

 

[Spitfire]

I don't believe that hypocrisy or double standards is good for any movement.

Parenting, for example, should always be centered on what is in the best interest of the children insofar as their safety and health.

I'm a bit late to this party. More of a reply to the OP than the way the discussion has since gone I see now.

 

[elohiym]

But, they make a lot of the same mistakes modern radical feminists do ...

Some do. Doesn't matter, if the issues are valid. I don't judge the entire feminist movement based on the rantings of a few self-styled feminists. (Not saying you do.)

 

[Ktoyou]

I agree ... though I do need to point out that that particular right would also usher in the right for the father to DEMAND the mother abort their child. The solution is fairly simple: ban abortion.

Right to keep, support and post bond. This maybe be an issue? I do not know where i stand on this :idunno: it never came up?

The converse of this seems ridiculous to me. Although, to deny any parental involvement might be an issue, again, :idunno: it never came up

 

[Rusha]

Some do. Doesn't matter, if the issues are valid. I don't judge the entire feminist movement based on the rantings of a few self-styled feminists. (Not saying you do.)

I think the deciding factor would be the motivation for supporting a movement.

I am what would be considered a *feminist-light*. It's about self-preservation and defense, not one upping the opposite sex. Insofar as how that coincides with "men's rights", it really shouldn't.

Abortion is not a valid women's issue.

 

[elohiym]

Abortion is not a valid women's issue.

Here's my thinking: my daughter doesn't have a right to abort her child but does have the right to informed consent in culture that allows abortion under color of law. Only in that sense does she have abortion rights, in my view.

 

[Rusha]

Here's my thinking: my daughter doesn't have a right to abort her child.

THAT is exactly where I was going with my statement.

The biggest issue separating men and women in regards to rights is the allowance of one gender to kill the unborn child that was created by both. Neither should have that right.

The focus on rights should be the right to fairness under the law and equality based on a person's character, experience and ability. For me, the idea of pretending that abortion is a *women's issue* is offensive.

Men and women both should be working for making our lives better rather than the right to destroy our future generations.