Right Divider
Body part
You are lying.
THE LORDS DAY CONTROVERSY?
- Thread starter 3rdAngel
- Start date
You are lying.
Lon
Well-known member
1Jn 2:3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
1 JOHN 3:6-10
:think:
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
1Jn 3:24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.
(no mention of 10 commandments...)
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Rom 3:31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.
:think:
Rom 4:14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.
(then, all of Romans chapter 7):
Rom 8:3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,
Rom 8:4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
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Jas 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.
Jas 2:11 For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
:think:
Jas 2:12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty.
(the very next verse told you we are 'under the law of liberty.' Do you just do concordance copy/paste or do you actually read the scriptures you are providing?)
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You said the same thing over in the Colossians 2:16 thread. You literally logged in to TOL, on a thread about 'observing the Lord's Day' on Saturday, then posted arguing with others, on Saturday. It is so surreal, I'm sure you don't get it, but it needs to be said, whether you get it or not, that you preach for observing Saturday, as a Sabbath, then don't use the 'Sabbath' to rest and worship in prayer with God on that day, but come on to TOL and argue. Very strange. Very odd, whether you get it or not.
Lon
Well-known member
:doh:
Whether she is aware of it or not.
Right Divider
Body part
That's because we know the truth and will not be persuaded by errors... like yours.
you need them itemized?... I need to see which of the 10 He commanded we NOT keep... Matt 24:20 He specifies the Sabbath is expected to be kept even after His DBR and ascension...as if even winters were no longer to occur...
And you think the Spirit abiding in the believer would lead one AWAY from the commandments? Into NOT keeping them? You think the Spirit would lead one into a contrary path than what He exemplified? You would divide His kingdom between those who do and those who don’t?
just keeping the law is not enough I have met many obedient people bitter and out of love faith or joy in the promise...Paul continues because the law is wrath reminds all without it there is no sin...
all of it includes it not being dead but we IN HIM dead to it...to serve in the newness of Spirit...also that it is necessary that we know sin...also declaring the law holy just and good...a delight in the law of Yah...and a thankfulness that with Him “I myself serve the law of Yah”...
and to you the Spirit leads us away from the Law...into NOT keeping it...doing what thou whilst....whenever...as if that fulfills the righteous requirement of the law...Heaven forbid...The Spirit helps our weaknesses our groaning makes intercession for us in our failings that in all things we are more than conquerors through Him...conquering what? Other people or our own sinfulness...lawlessness...
yup even kids on a playground get it...a foul is a foul is a foul...and what? you quit playing pick your ball up and stomp home? Or keep playing but stop fouling?
all have indeed sinned and none keep the Law perfectly...Law does NOT perfect wasnt made for that but to point out your fouls...
James carefully lays out what the law becomes to those who hear AND DO it...those that only hear and do not do it deceive themselves...BUSTED...but those that look into the law and CONTINUES in it NOT just a forgetful hearer but a DOER... some kids like to play the game and think they can foul...you know NOT keep the rules...they are no fun...rules if kept keep the fun...the liberty...
ouch! good seeing around the beam in your own eye...even Yahushua pointed out that we are to do as they teach from Moses’ seat do ye all of it...but NOT as they do...because they teach but do NOT do...
Sad to see you’re so against the rules of the game...you wanna keep fouling that bad eh?
Maybe you lost your first love of the game?
The 10 commandments are also known as the 10 words or the 10 sayings...translators had a hard time with Biblical Hebrew as it had no future imperative tense but was merely present/past
a better rendering of the Law would be “you are not stealing” even better is the idea that “Where I am there is no stealing”...so read the rest of the commandments that way and realize Yah was merely describing what life is where He is...you know like in the garden of Eden where He was BEFORE the fall...so it describes what life is like and will be again...”where I am there is no coveting” “where I am there is not stealing” “where I am there is no false witness” “where I am there is no sexual immorality “ “where I am there is no killing” “where I am no idols” etc...
this now is why James describes it as a law of liberty...as well in Him and with the Spirit guiding us into it we die to sinful selves and begin to live as He did...
not exactly sure but can imagine what that Col 2:16 thread was about...
might I suggest: https://www.cogwriter.com/news/chur...derstand-about-the-sabbath-and-the-holy-days/
I find it odd Paul would be concerned for new goyim believers in Yahushua being harassed for their lifestyle if they were NOT keeping Torah...
I mean who would harrass them NOT keeping jewish customs? Other non believing goyim? “Hey you guys are believing in Yahushua but you ain’t keeping the other laws!!” Doubtful
Or maybe other nonbelieving jews? “Hey you goyim believe in that Yahushua idol but you aint keeping the other laws!!” Hardly
Good advise that let ONLY THE BODY OF CHRIST judge in their keeping of holy days Sabbaths new moons...BTW pagans had their own calendars
Yup...all this ARE shadows of good things still to come...note Paul did NOT say they WERE shadows as they are still binding...Col 2:17
Lon
Well-known member
:nono: It matters 'if' that is what was meant. Simply because you or 3rd 'want' it to be? Sloppy Bible study. Advice: Don't bin any idea UNTIL you've exhausted the resources of what it could mean. Otherwise? Just whatever you or anybody 'wants' the scriptures to say. That's not Bible study, its indoctrination and whims. It isn't the Spirit of the Lord, it is your spirit. I NEVER, EVER want to get in God's way. I would if I ever presumed upon the scriptures. It does not, in point of fact, say '10 commandments.'
WAY down the list. FIRST find out if that is what is meant in the passage. If not, stop 'scripture hopping and skipping.' Stay in the text, find out what it means. People who don't do Bible study well, are WAY too quick to follow the voices in their head, rather than the Voice of the Spirit. The text demands context and IS the voice of the Spirit. Where you go after? Great, if it honors the Biblical context, but bring that up, like on page 56, not page 6.
Good, but misplaced. It isn't the 'law' that I delight, but Christ, and Him alone.
I likely keep it better than you. So what? It isn't my hope. Yours? IF you cannot even keep it as well as I do, where is YOUR hope? :think:
Did you gain points here? :nono: I think you may have lost some. My hope is not in my righteousness, it is in His. Am I a cleaner or dirtier rat than you? So it depends not on you, but on Him. Romans 9:16
You are under the impression I'm antinomial. :nono: I'm against it for certain things. Laws accomplish only so much. Our society doesn't need laws, just a portion of them do. Guess which ones? Yep. You guessed right --> Law-'breakers.' Me? I'm following a higher calling and a Savior that makes me want to do better. You and 3rd? Caught up. Enslaved. Not free. You are so worried about breaking this or that rule, you forget to live. I don't break the law often, because I want to be like the Savior who kept them all perfectly. Thus, my desire is no longer motivated by fear, but love. 1 John 4:18 Galatians 5:14
The law? Of course I did. Oh, did you mean First-Love? Totally different. I don't believe it is as important that I have a hold of Christ, as that He has a hold of me. 2 Timothy 2:13 1 John 4:9 Here is the issue (I think): You seem to think relationship is only viable when following a certain formula. Many will say to Him on that day, "but Lord." Formulas don't work, knowing and being known by the Savior is the only thing. If you get caught up in saying the right prayer, or doing this or that, you are giving some people with no right to believe they are saved, the idea they are saved, simply because they said this prayer, or believed that thing. "All who call on the name of the Lord, will be saved." "You will find Him, if you seek Him with all your heart." Ephesians 2:8-10 is a Salvation passage. Law is never mentioned in it. Romans mentions the law, but Paul says it has its place in bringing people 'to' Jesus, not keeping them there. "If any man is in Christ, they are a new creation, the old (selfishness and harm) is passed, the new (love and care) has come.
Hebrew was a broad language. Most languages that carry more particulars, are trade languages like Greek and English, where borrowed words are employed. 10 sayings is fine but the context was that the Jews should not transgress them on penalty of death and/or/both separation from God. They were a way, to get a 'lawless' people to be cognizant of a higher calling. Something similar is whether to use negative (spankings) reinforcement or positive (praise, reward, thanksgiving, recognition) reinforcement raising a child. I'm convinced, at this venture in life, that "spare the rod" is for lawless people and is negative reinforcement. Such teaches fear, but I rather like that my kids are 'afraid to disappoint me' more than afraid of a spanking. Something is internalized at that point and 'law' no longer serves the purpose it did 'prior' to that internalization.
We disagree to a point: I think (because of scriptures) those who love, fulfill the law. Romans 13:10 I like the 10 commandments, simply because those who need to come to Christ, need to know they sin. The 10 will catch just about everyone and help them understand the need for a Savior.
People will naturally have holy days, because new creations are, in fact, holy. I'm not worried about these sorts of things in real believers. An 'invitation' to worship (positive reinforcement) is incredibly better than "You need to worship on Saturday!" (negative reinforcement)
Rather, he advised against raising havoc with controversy. People who are in Christ, are already keeping the Sabbath because whatever they do, whether they eat or drink, they do all to the Glory of God. 1 Corinthians 10:31
ok well please twist Romans 14 back and let it be shown Paul is speaking of the Sabbath day and not which days to eat or not eat...
Paul, when he was told it was rumored he taught believing goyim to forsake Moses, actually clarified he did NOT and proved it by taking a vow...using Romans 14 to claim he abrogated the Sabbath would counter his vow dont you think? You think Paul is a liar or hypocrite?
And at his trials he insisted he kept to the beliefs and traditions of the fathers, Moses’ customs, neither speaking nor doing anything against the Law or the Temple but only what the prophets and Moses said...ONE LAW FOR NATIVE AND FOREIGNER...not some do some dont...as if His kingdom was an apartheid state...
Now you really think Paul could claim that he stayed true to the OT at a trial if he taught Sabbath was done away with? Or any day everday...he was defending for his life...Jews and Romans dont mess around with heresy or agitation
By the time of his trials Paul had already written the Romans...
The prosecution could have easily provided his letter to the romans as evidence he taught “we aint under dat law no more” but obviously ONLY IF that is what he taught...
He did NOT teach that but as he said...copy my as I copy Christ...Ham dinners after Sunday church was NOT His example...
probably because they esteem things they add to or take away from His word and thus misrepresent Him...for their own pleasure
(see above)
Does sin have dominion over any? No? there is a way out...but shall we sin? NO...how do we know if we do? The law remains to show us...
Btw Verse16...that Master you present yourself as a slave to obey...He needs only belief? No obedience to HIS WAY? Or did He make changes allowing “do what thou whilst cuz ya’ll be under grace” no more law...practice lawlessness...Heaven forbid!!
oh? how else can it mean but that Sabbath and winter were to continue beyond His DBR and ascension?
so does the Father have a set of commandments that the Son’s set overrides? There are TWO SETS OF COMMANDS? Do we love one another differently than how the Son exemplified?? Maybe include Sunday Ham dinners after church in our love for each other? Love each other like the pagans? Or Muslims? How does Love as I love you not mean to follow Him His Way to love...
right so the Spirit does or does not know the context? To teach us lead us in the way we should go? To lead us NOT into keeping the commandments or NOT loving as He loved us...?
aw that is nice...so do you delight when He says keep my commandments...or pray your flight during the time of trouble is NOT on a Sabbath?
BTW since you are so keen on context I was listing texts from Romans 7 which you referenced ALL OF IT as if it argues we are no longer under the law...so please put into context Paul’s writing “For I delight in the Law of Yah...” in verse 22...add to that how he ends thanking Yah he through His Son can actually serve the Law...verse 25
wow...but this is not a competition between me and you but who delights...and loves AS HE LOVED US
again delight that IN HIM we might serve the law of Yah...as it was instructed we keep His commandments...we just squabbling over one of them...here and now...
nope not at all...I imagine you try and keep all 9 of them quite well...it just that 4th commandment concerning the day of rest both native and foreigner receive...Imagine that...rejecting a day off....your employers must love you...
EXACTLY...the 9 you have no problems with...its that last 1 about the sabbath...so yours is a 9/10ths love
merely to point out sin...never perfected...wasnt meant to duh...but which Laws...I mean pagans keep laws too and they agree dont lie, steal, kill, covet, adultery, honor parents...so is that it then?
really? A higher calling? Your savior doesnt want you to have a day off? You serve another master...sad
Not worried at all...I see you wish to keep 9 out of 10... I live more abundantly even with my day off...you should try it...cuz that is what He did...and aske you to copy
awww...LOVE...again like the pagans love or the muslims? Or the Buddhists? They are loving too ya dig? Or are we not to love as He loved...so just show me where He loved His with Ham dinners after Sunday church...
oh nice...so He holds you despite you rebelling following NOT HIM HIS WAY...
Paul wrote to the Galatians that Yah knew them now because they forsake their ways and followed Him His Ways...Gal 4:9
so yes rather we are known by Yah for our obedience...we are set apart a holy people NOT like the world...but peculiar
you are so romantic...so you are saved...saved to keep doing your sin...keep your old ways...the ways of the world...to love as the world loves? Nothing transformative in that love? Like you know stop killing maybe...or stop lying...or stop stealing...or do you keep doing all this cuz “you saved”
not mentioned? right...because like with following in love...YOU WANT TO DO WHAT THE OTHER WANTS...just like when you are saved...grateful you FOLLOW HIM...not your own do what thou whilst traditions...
as if potential lovers present itemized rules on the first date...lol. Even Yah developed a relationship before giving the rules...
awwww so sweet...again is that love and care as Buddhists love and care? As muslims love and care? As jews love and care? Jesus said love as I love you...boom there...so did He ever lovingly offer Ham dinners after caring Sunday church?
yup...like Heb 4:9 a sabbatismos (sabbath keeping) remains for His people...but I guess you aint His people...
BTW given not just to jews...to all 12 tribes and foreigners believing with them...
you of course are only 9/10 high...lol
ironic the Sabbath was given before jews...at the time of creation...so Yah could rest and remember what He did in 6 days
even in the wilderness the Sabbath was lived out BEFORE the Law was given...neat eh?
goodness...sadly most adults live only in fear of the enforcement of law or penalty of HELL FIRE FOREVER...another punishing rod added to the word...
but in your case it is the 9 not the 10...most people forget/ignore/reject His jewishness...jewish ways...all too happy with all those Sunday Ham dinners...lol
your 9/10 love is like the world...Muslim or Buddhist or Pagans...all so loving...happy to feast and fellowship
really...so new Satan festival days are holy...goodness indeed
is that your gospel then? His invitation remains exactly that...Remember the Sabbath day...because where I am the Sabbath is kept...ask Isaiah how this all ends when all flesh shall come to worship before Him...FYI where He is the other 9 are also kept...imagine that...
whatever they do? Like kill steal adultery covet lie? Make idols? blaspheme His name? worship another god? You sure?
Oh and whether they eat human flesh or drink blood...is all good and Glory to Yah?...Heaven forbid...
Your rebellion is towards merely 1 commandment....you merely twist and turn for 1 commandment....all this sophistry and rationalization and text twisting to reject a day off...given to you by your creator...knowing it is good for you...
Pray in the coming days of trouble your flight be not in winter or on a Sabbath day...
Or is it “here are they that keep 9/10ths of the commandments of Yah and have the faith OF Yahushua (except that Sabbath thingy)”...?
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Lon
Well-known member
According to this website, yes (I'm not MAD). Mark 2:21No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment. If he does, the new piece will pull away from the old, and a worse tear will result.
22And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. Instead, new wine is poured into new wineskins.”b
The Lord of the Sabbath
(1 Samuel 21:1-7; Matthew 12:1-8; Luke 6:1-5)
23One Sabbath Jesus was passing through the grainfields, and His disciples began to pick the heads of grain as they walked along. 24So the Pharisees said to Him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”
25Jesus replied, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need? 26During the high priesthood of Abiathar, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread,c which was lawful only for the priests. And he gave some to his companions as well.”
27Then Jesus declared, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”
So, the Lord came to fulfill the law. Did He keep it with His disciples this day? :nono: Men will always throw their interpretation out there. Jesus nor His disciples, NOR a transformed believer are bound to such 'laws.' :nono: Rather, I'm bound to love, and in loving, I'll be okay with a ham dinner on whatever holy day of the week it is served. You can keep your traditions of men, the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
The Spirit leads as the Bible says and NO differently. Understand His word, you'll understand His Spirit. Men, being regenerate stagnate when they are told by another what to think, what to wear, how to worship. Hebrews 8:11 Jeremiah 31:4
#1) who did He say it to? How do we apply this, if it is regarding specifically the Apostles, or if it isn't a command but an observation, etc. Should I, dare I, just apply it straight, like a lot of law-givers tell me? Is that wise? Is it really seeking the Spirit, when it is coming from a man, and really, only his/her first inclination? Is THAT following the Spirit? Or should I really try to investigate what the Spirit is meaning and what it specifically means for me? :think: #1) is it a command? Or an observation? Jesus is giving? IOW, is it people that love Him, "obviously will keep His command?" or is it "Keep My Command if you love Me!" (John 14:21;15:10) :think: #2) which commandments? (John 15:12) :think:
If someone has the heart of God, residing in them, will they lie? Cheat? Kill? Steal? If they do, even just once, are they lost forever? If not, then law-thumpers are hypocrites, aren't they? Preaching to keep what they themselves cannot?Romans 2
Spoiler
Yet, it is what he is saying as a Jew. He already said it condemns, AND that a righteousnes "APART" from the law has come, THROUGH FAITH in Jesus Christ. Pay attention to what the Spirit is saying to us.
It seems, to me, that you did make it a competition. One where we are righteous BY keeping the law. Paul calls it a 'race' with a prize at the end. Do I want to 'beat you?' :nono: I simply want to help you cross that line. There is no way, under your and my power. Jesus crossed the line, fulfilling the requirements. It doesn't mean we sin on purpose all along the way. It means to 'keep our eyes on the prize' and in so doing, we will not fulfill the desires of the flesh. I'm sure you know Romans, I'm simply trying to get you to grasp the whole of the book. Maybe read it all in one sitting, then spend a bit of time digesting it. Afterwards, when people like you and I talk online, or with a pastor/teacher, we can grasp and appreciate all the Spirit is saying. It isn't a book that can easily be glossed over. I very much appreciate reading through the Bible in a year BUT sometimes I don't do it. I spent about a half a year in Romans, once, a long time ago. I kept on reading other passages, but Romans captured me. The Spirit captured me.
I'm not really squabbling, other than teasing a bit, for meaning, to get you to realize none of us are better for keeping commandments. James 2:10
:nono: You are trying to make me worship on 'Saturday" (not sure if that is your day, but probably) and I'm convinced, being fair at math, the day is not in fact, Saturday, but changed. The Jews would reboot every few years to keep up with the seasons. They didn't get caught in legalism as if the Sabbath was something like "every Saturday (named after a pagan God). Nor do I believe a Christian can BUT keep the Sabbath. We found rest, permanently, in Christ. Having Christ, KEEPS the Sabbath. Being Holy, every day is Holy. It means, regardless of legalism, everyday is a Sabbath rest. Hebrews 10:1 Hebrews 4:10,11 I'm against the law in trying to earn salvation. I'm against the legalism (Romans 2) that accompanies and enslaves. Galatians 5:1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery [to the Law]. What is the Spirit saying? Are we listening? :think:
No. It is LAWFUL to do good on the Sabbath. We completely disagree. It was made for man (for me), not the other way around. You can be sad. I find it a juvenile understanding. You ARE caught in it. More? You ARE trying to tell others what to do, and on what day to do it. Fact.
:nono: YOU asked me to copy. You are forcing YOUR understanding/rendition. Such is Pharisaical, legalism, bound to the law. The Apostle Paul said "Foolish" Galatians for it.
Better than trying to beat a pagan into law submission, at least. But I did not, in fact, advocate that. Romans 13 rather
Spoiler
:chuckle: Simply because you want to accuse? Romans 2:Rom 2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart; in spirit and not in letter; whose praise is not from men, but from God.
Spiritual is 'internal.' The Law is external, by force. You cannot guilt someone into submission, for salvation. It cannot be done. 1) New Creation THEN 2) New works FROM that new Creation. You don't have to tell an apple tree to produce apples and 'stop bearing thistles.' It's goofy. Nor do you need to tell a new creation in Christ, to 'be like Christ.' You can encourage them, but unless that process has started, by Christ, it is never going to happen.
How carnal are you? Are you STILL following Him in your flesh? Do I REALLY have to tell you not to covet your neighbor's things and wife? Do I REALLY???? Are you, or aren't you a new creation, recreated in Christ for every good work? "Live by the Spirit (God) and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. That is the new law, the new commandment. It isn't 'romantic' whatever that could mean. John 15:5, Jesus said it.
If a man is of the flesh, you will NOT brow-beat them into holiness. It didn't work for many of the Jews.
as if potential lovers present itemized rules on the first date...lol. Even Yah developed a relationship before giving the rules...[/QUOTE]
Are you a new creation? Do you know what that means? "For him who has ears to hear' is/was always about whether His Spirit resides.
Spirit. Otherwise it is flesh after flesh. You cannot brow-beat flesh into Spiritual submission. It is a cart before horse endeavor. You and I are but planters and waterers. Only God gives increase because He must transform that person. Unless they are transformed, no amount of 'obey' is every going to be good for anything (except convicting those in NEED of a Savior). You, by your logic and flesh, are trouncing up and down, upon the work of Christ. My hope is built, on nothing less, than Jesus' blood, and righteousness.
- My hope is built on nothing less
Than Jesus’ blood and righteousness;
I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
But wholly lean on Jesus’ name.- Refrain:
On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand;
All other ground is sinking sand,
All other ground is sinking sand.
- Refrain:
- When darkness veils His lovely face,
I rest on His unchanging grace;
In every high and stormy gale,
My anchor holds within the veil. - His oath, His covenant, His blood
Support me in the whelming flood;
When all around my soul gives way,
He then is all my hope and stay. - When He shall come with trumpet sound,
Oh, may I then in Him be found;
Dressed in His righteousness alone,
Faultless to stand before the throne.
Eph 5:26 that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word,
No, not if you are still obeying in the flesh. I am not a part of that people any longer, you are correct.
which would be the Judaized.
Really? So you never lie? Never have stolen? Never cuss? Never covet a car going down the road? :think: Maybe you are doing better than me....Matthew 5:23 Whoever has desired a thing in his heart, has already sinned.
Yet, it was made for me, not me for it. The Pharisees had it exactly backwards.
And or Saturday. The heart of a worshipper worships. You cannot put new wine into old wineskins.
In your humble, judgmental opinion.
You think he can rob God of any day? Aren't they ALL His? :think: I cannot help but think you've an immature view of the world. It all belongs to God.
You are mixing your proverbial metaphors. You apply a LOT more than I believe you are supposed to do, even if you were a Christian Jew today. You better not sacrifice a bull. Hebrews 6:4 Back then? GOOD! Today? BAD! Pay attention! You aren't. You are a Jew in gentile clothing and worse, being disobedient to God whenever you try and do something He has already done.
Those who are of flesh, are flesh. Those who are of Spirit, are Spirit. Those of the Spirit are new creations, with natures that desire Christ. If not? Worry and pray for them. They may not be His at all, despite church attendance. Merely 'keeping the 10 commandments' will not save them, or you, or me.
YOU are twisting the scriptures! How in the world would or could you add to the word of God? Interpretation is like that, it reveals if we are men of Spirit, or merely men of flesh following the law but not with the heart. Would a believer be a cannibal? Why would such a notion, not even practiced by pagans, but exceptionally, come to your mind? How in the world, did your mind travel here, Clefty? What in the world?
YOU are bound by the law, not me. The Sabbath is a day of rest and worship. Nor do you know me, but yes, I occasionally do good on that day of rest. You? Judging. Getting into another's business. Worse? For Saturday (named after the pagan god)? :think:
..For me, history. It DID happen, with the Apostles. For me? No. It was written to Jews and written for immediate fulfillment ("this generation shall not pass away before these have been fulfilled"). Likely we adamantly disagree, but my first inclination these days is not to 'apply' but to learn more, THEN apply. Straight applications would have me sacrificing from my O.T. readings before I ever reached the N.T. I'd simply be a converted Jew at that point.
OR sacrificing bulls...Where are you? 99/100? :noway: You couldn't convince anybody by those numbers. I wonder, honestly, of the 627 commandments the Jews followed, which you keep. Do you wear a coat on the Sabbath? :think: YOU are picking and choosing, then Judaizing your brothers and sisters, perhaps without realizing it, by reading other's mail and trying to 1) follow it yourself and 2) make others do what you are 'convinced of.' Be better informed THEN push your agenda, not the othe way around.
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I am afraid that, in reality, living the unconditional love towards all others, including one’s enemies (as revealed clearly by Jesus Christ), contradicts any system’s law in the world (said inspired by God or not).
For example, if a good Pagan, a good Muslim or a good Jew helps whoever is considered, by the men in charge of the system to which he belongs, being an enemy of God, he would certainly be seen as a traitor.
So, we like it or not, independent persons ‘only’ may have the chance to feed their soul with the joy of True Love; now on earth and for eternity (in the Divine Love’s Kingdom).
By the way, if someone loves others because it is commanded by God or else, he could call it anything but true love (which is based strictly on a free personal decision).
In brief, living True Love (the essence of Jesus teachings) and obeying any law cannot co-exist at a certain time for the same person.
Cheers,
For example, if a good Pagan, a good Muslim or a good Jew helps whoever is considered, by the men in charge of the system to which he belongs, being an enemy of God, he would certainly be seen as a traitor.
So, we like it or not, independent persons ‘only’ may have the chance to feed their soul with the joy of True Love; now on earth and for eternity (in the Divine Love’s Kingdom).
By the way, if someone loves others because it is commanded by God or else, he could call it anything but true love (which is based strictly on a free personal decision).
In brief, living True Love (the essence of Jesus teachings) and obeying any law cannot co-exist at a certain time for the same person.
Cheers,
Lon
Well-known member
It'd simply be 'dispensational' at this venture of discussion, AND you'd be incorrect on both counts.
Next time? Ask? :think:
He was a Jew, but CLEARLY, He set the bar higher. However Judaized you happen to be, it is still rules, rules, rules. What did you, in fact, do, Saturday? Pray? Fast? Watch television? Read? How did you celebrate it as a holy day and more, consecrate it as holy? Spend extra time in scripture? Or did you just eat a no-ham dinner and relax? How, in fact, did you observe the day to make it Holy?
9/10ths? That's generous! I'll take it. To covet, is to steal. To lust is to commit adultery.
Perhaps becoming a Jew could/would make me closer to the Savior, but the Apostle Paul clearly was against it and said that any amount of resorting to 'law living' was always going to direct one away from 'grace and joy living.' Always. So, if the alternative is a whitewashed tomb, yes, I'll gladly take a 9/10 moniker from a mandater than to ever (EVER) reject grace. That much is sure. My walk is about Jesus and Him crucified for my and your sorry state of sin. I need the Lord Jesus Christ just as much today, as I did when I first called upon Him.
Lon
Well-known member
A few scriptures Clefty couldn't be bothered with 'keeping?:
Spoiler
Romans 3:20 Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the law. For the law merely brings awareness of sin. 21But now, apart from the Law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, as attested by the Law and the Prophets. 22And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.
Being a Jew, for Clefty, is easier than following the commandments of Christ
I'd WAY rather be accused against the Ten than against Christ's. They aren't separated, but Clefty has managed it. Pray for him.Sorry, is there another Jesus than the one I know? Jesus, I know, doesn't say to observe any holy day. But, I also understand that a Pagan, a Muslim and a Jew are all supposed to observe certain days as holy ones; besides various civil holidays perhaps. By the way, even Atheists are pleased to have a weekend (one day, in the least). And, in reality, the Lord's Day (weekend?) is the one that the 'men in charge' of a ruling system (civil, religious or political) confirm/approve for their people (followers).
Sorry again, is it possible for a person to be a Jew while he disobeys clearly and in public his Jewish Elders?
For example, Jesus, I know, had to be crucified as a dangerous criminal (threatening the nation of Israel) just because he didn't obey rules which preserve the prestige of the Jewish Elders in his time. But I also understand that if a person knew another Jesus who was Jewish and following the teachings of Judaism as good Jews do in these days.
Sorry again, is it possible for a person to be a Jew while he disobeys clearly and in public his Jewish Elders?
For example, Jesus, I know, had to be crucified as a dangerous criminal (threatening the nation of Israel) just because he didn't obey rules which preserve the prestige of the Jewish Elders in his time. But I also understand that if a person knew another Jesus who was Jewish and following the teachings of Judaism as good Jews do in these days.
Right Divider
Body part
During His earthly ministry to Israel, He most certainly told them (Israel) to follow the law. The law includes many holy days that were required for every one of the children of Israel to observe.
Trump Gurl
Credo in Unum Deum
There is no controversy, it is very simple:
The Sabbath is the seventh day of the week. Always has been, always will be.
The first day of the week has always been observed by Christians as the Lord's Day, the day that Christ rose from the dead, and the day of gathering for prayers and worship and and the "breaking of bread".
Very simple.
The Sabbath is the seventh day of the week. Always has been, always will be.
The first day of the week has always been observed by Christians as the Lord's Day, the day that Christ rose from the dead, and the day of gathering for prayers and worship and and the "breaking of bread".
Very simple.
Right Divider
Body part
Revelation 1:10 is not talking about either of those. Very simple.
Trump Gurl
Credo in Unum Deum
According to your erroneous interpretation you mean. I have yet to see you interpret any scripture correctly, so don't try to start now.
Simple.