The law of the Lord is perfect

C

chair

Well-known member
Psalm 19
The law of the Lord is perfect,
refreshing the soul.
The statutes of the Lord are trustworthy,
making wise the simple.
8 The precepts of the Lord are right,
giving joy to the heart.
The commands of the Lord are radiant,
giving light to the eyes.
9 The fear of the Lord is pure,
enduring forever.
The decrees of the Lord are firm,
and all of them are righteous.
10 They are more precious than gold,
than much pure gold;
they are sweeter than honey,
than honey from the honeycomb.​

So let's let up on how evil and impossible God's law is!

Thanks,

Chair
 
TweetyBird

TweetyBird

New member
chair said:
Psalm 19
The law of the Lord is perfect,
refreshing the soul.
The statutes of the Lord are trustworthy,
making wise the simple.
8 The precepts of the Lord are right,
giving joy to the heart.
The commands of the Lord are radiant,
giving light to the eyes.
9 The fear of the Lord is pure,
enduring forever.
The decrees of the Lord are firm,
and all of them are righteous.
10 They are more precious than gold,
than much pure gold;
they are sweeter than honey,
than honey from the honeycomb.​

So let's let up on how evil and impossible God's law is!

Thanks,

Chair
Click to expand...

Why is it so difficult [impossible] to keep then?
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
Psalm 119:161-176 The Scriptures (TS 2009)
161 Shin Rulers have persecuted me without a cause, But at Your word my heart stood in awe.
162 I rejoice at Your word As one who finds great treasure.
163 I have hated falsehood and loathe it, Your Torah I have loved.
164 I have praised You seven times a day, Because of Your righteous right-rulings.
165 Great peace have those loving Your Torah, And for them there is no stumbling-block.
166 יהוה, I have waited for Your deliverance, And I have done Your commands.
167 My being has guarded Your witnesses, And I love them exceedingly.
168 I have guarded Your orders and Your witnesses, For all my ways are before You.
169 Taw My cry comes before You, O יהוה; Make me understand according to Your word.
170 Let my prayer come before You; Deliver me according to Your word.
171 My lips pour forth praise, For You teach me Your laws.
172 My tongue sings of Your word, For all Your commands are righteousness.
173 Your hand is a help to me, For I have chosen Your orders.
174 I have longed for Your deliverance, O יהוה, And Your Torah is my delight.
175 My being lives, and it praises You; And Your right-rulings help me.
176 I have strayed like a lost sheep; Seek Your servant, For I have not forgotten Your commands.
 
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TweetyBird

TweetyBird

New member
daqq said:
Psalm 119:161-176 The Scriptures (TS 2009)
161 Shin Rulers have persecuted me without a cause, But at Your word my heart stood in awe.
162 I rejoice at Your word As one who finds great treasure.
163 I have hated falsehood and loathe it, Your Torah I have loved.
164 I have praised You seven times a day, Because of Your righteous right-rulings.
165 Great peace have those loving Your Torah, And for them there is no stumbling-block.
166 יהוה, I have waited for Your deliverance, And I have done Your commands.
167 My being has guarded Your witnesses, And I love them exceedingly.
168 I have guarded Your orders and Your witnesses, For all my ways are before You.
169 Taw My cry comes before You, O יהוה; Make me understand according to Your word.
170 Let my prayer come before You; Deliver me according to Your word.
171 My lips pour forth praise, For You teach me Your laws.
172 My tongue sings of Your word, For all Your commands are righteousness.
173 Your hand is a help to me, For I have chosen Your orders.
174 I have longed for Your deliverance, O יהוה, And Your Torah is my delight.
175 My being lives, and it praises You; And Your right-rulings help me.
176 I have strayed like a lost sheep; Seek Your servant, For I have not forgotten Your commands.
Click to expand...

Why is it so difficult, even impossible, to keep all the Law of Moses?
 
Prizebeatz1

Prizebeatz1

New member
The Law of the Lord is indeed perfect but let's not confuse it with the law of the personality. The law of the personality is going to try to bully, intimidate, castigate and pressure us into conforming us to its idea of perfection while the Law of the Lord has already achieved perfection. It has already achieved perfection because it is perfection in itself and it is effortless.
 
Bradley D

Bradley D

Well-known member
The Law is perfect but humans are unable to keep them. For out of the heart proceed evil imaginations. A bad thought is a sin. Only through Christ am I able to be forgiven and saved.
 
jamie

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Bradley D said:
The Law is perfect but humans are unable to keep them. For out of the heart proceed evil imaginations. A bad thought is a sin. Only through Christ am I able to be forgiven and saved.
Click to expand...

How was Jesus able to keep the law?
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
TweetyBird said:
Why is it so difficult, even impossible, to keep all the Law of Moses?
Click to expand...

The foreskin of the heart must be circumcised:

Deuteronomy 10:12-17 TS2009
12 “And now, Yisra’ĕl, what is יהוה your Elohim asking of you, but to fear יהוה your Elohim, to walk in all His ways and to love Him, and to serve יהוה your Elohim with all your heart and with all your being,
13 to guard the commands of יהוה and His laws which I command you today for your good?
14 “See, the heavens and the heaven of heavens belong to יהוה your Elohim, also the earth with all that is in it.
15 “יהוה delighted only in your fathers, to love them. And He chose their seed after them, you above all peoples, as it is today.
16 “And you shall circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and harden your neck no more.
17 “For יהוה your Elohim is Elohim of mighty ones and Master of masters, the great Ěl, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality nor takes a bribe.

Romans 8:6-8 TS2009
6 For the mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace.
7 Because the mind of the flesh is enmity towards Elohim, for it does not subject itself to the Torah of Elohim, neither indeed is it able,
8 and those who are in the flesh are unable to please Elohim.
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
chair said:
Psalm 19
The law of the Lord is perfect,
refreshing the soul.
The statutes of the Lord are trustworthy,
making wise the simple.
8 The precepts of the Lord are right,
giving joy to the heart.
The commands of the Lord are radiant,
giving light to the eyes.
9 The fear of the Lord is pure,
enduring forever.
The decrees of the Lord are firm,
and all of them are righteous.
10 They are more precious than gold,
than much pure gold;
they are sweeter than honey,
than honey from the honeycomb.​

So let's let up on how evil and impossible God's law is!

Thanks,

Chair
Click to expand...
We who share a common faith in the Maker, though we don't all see Him right, while we know His law proves His non-fictional existence, in a non-circular way, don't all agree on what to make of His law.

The fact of the matter is that trespasses occur; we trespass; we are trespassers; we transgress God's law, each of us, and wherever we break the law but once, we are lawbreakers---period, end-of-story.

So, while we believe that He is, we are otherwise no better than the atheist. We both break the law. The atheist isn't breaking the law qualitatively differently from us, regardless of any quantitative difference.

Just because we recognize the Maker, doesn't make us holy. And even if we strive intensely for perfection we don't get there.

Outside the Christian faith, there is nothing certain beyond this.
 
C

chair

Well-known member
Nihilo said:
We who share a common faith in the Maker, though we don't all see Him right, while we know His law proves His non-fictional existence, in a non-circular way, don't all agree on what to make of His law.

The fact of the matter is that trespasses occur; we trespass; we are trespassers; we transgress God's law, each of us, and wherever we break the law but once, we are lawbreakers---period, end-of-story.
Click to expand...

This is exactly where we disagree. You give up. We keep striving and doing our best. The verses from Psalms support our view.
Nihilo said:
So, while we believe that He is, we are otherwise no better than the atheist. We both break the law. The atheist isn't breaking the law qualitatively differently from us, regardless of any quantitative difference.

Just because we recognize the Maker, doesn't make us holy. And even if we strive intensely for perfection we don't get there.

Outside the Christian faith, there is nothing certain beyond this.
Click to expand...

This "perfection or nothing" bit is a bit silly. Would you raise your children this way?
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
chair said:
This is exactly where we disagree. You give up. We keep striving and doing our best. The verses from Psalms support our view.


This "perfection or nothing" bit is a bit silly. Would you raise your children this way?
Click to expand...

:thumb: That is also exactly why I began with the passage that I did to compliment your OP.
Your point is quite clear from what Psalm 119:176 says within its overall context. :)
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
chair said:
This is exactly where we disagree. You give up. We keep striving and doing our best. The verses from Psalms support our view.
Click to expand...
I'm not talking about giving up, I'm talking about acknowledging reality. If God's law means anything, then it means something that not a single one of us, is anything other than a lawbreaker.

Otherwise, His law doesn't mean anything. If it isn't important that we're all lawbreakers, then His law means nothing, and I don't believe His law means nothing.
chair said:
This "perfection or nothing" bit is a bit silly.
Click to expand...
That wasn't and isn't my bit.
chair said:
Would you raise your children this way?
Click to expand...
I raise my children according to the Church's faith in the Lord. Through Him only is found the answer us theists need to our dilemma that God's law is holy and perfect; and we are not.
 
C

chair

Well-known member
Nihilo said:
I'm not talking about giving up, I'm talking about acknowledging reality. If God's law means anything, then it means something that not a single one of us, is anything other than a lawbreaker...
Click to expand...

God's law isn't a philosophical abstract. "What does God's law mean"? It doesn't "mean" something. It is a guide to the correct way to live.
 
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