The Late Great Urantia Revelation

[freelight]

Learn the essential theology on God first......

Learn the essential theology on God first......

Anyone with half of a normal wit would know better than to think the UB is anything but pure fiction.

Can you show from a precursory reading of the first 5 papers on the nature of God and his relationship with cosmos and individual souls what is 'fiction'? Furthermore, out of all the 196 papers, show what is exactly 'fiction', since such a wide spectrum and detailed spectrum of information and philosophical knowledge is given. One can find places that might appear 'fictional' (the same could be found in the Bible or other religious writings), and other places that are quite logically rational, spiritually true, and intellectually inspiring. Any on this thread, to be true to the DISCUSSION, can take my challenge of learning the first 5 papers (most important to UB theology, the core-fundamentals at least)...and see for themselves what the UB teaches about God and his relationship to the Universe and to all mortals. - then a constructive creative dialogue COULD be had if participants afford such, in exploring the propositions.

Online study edition here [Index] (the Foreward can be complex for newbies, but just a summary of the whole, while the first 5 papers are fundamental). This will give anyone interested in the UB its essential theology of 'God'. All else revealed in the papers expand upon various intimate details of the creation, the Paradise Trinity, angelic orders, the plan of eternal progression for mortals and their journey thru the various 'mansion-worlds', their eternal destiny, etc. This is mandatory for any here 'discussing' or 'debating' this particular text.




pj

 

[Lon]

* Grosnick has been a provocative Troll on this thread, yes, after some time of provoking responses I was a little offensive, I'm sorry, but why don't you go through and follow ALL of GM's post.

and why are you so biased in support of the Trolls??????

▼This▼

...the fact that he was rejected and killed as a human sacrifice is ---->your gospel<----not mine.

As such, he is defending his home turf. That's why I don't start a bunch of Calvinism threads. This isn't that website. I'm at least an opponent to the stance of this website. It would be presumptuous of me to start an "AW Pink" thread without expecting a LOT of complaint. So guess what? I don't do it. You did. The word that comes to mind is 'discernment.' I don't think you are very discerning to have a Urant thread on a MAD/OV board. The tension caused MUST stay.

* One thread out of thousands Lon, what are you afraid of

Nobody is afraid of anything here. :think: You ask this a lot. ▲see above▲

 

[Lon]

take my challenge of learning the first 5 papers (most important to UB theology, the core-fundamentals at least)...and see for themselves what the UB teaches about God and his relationship to the Universe and to all mortals. - then a constructive creative dialogue COULD be had if participants afford such, in exploring the propositions.


pj

Already did this here and here and here. If you have to limit it to the first 5, then you are saying your book is junk, yourself, except for 'parts.' No qualifications. It is all or none.

 

[Lon]

Lon your argument of canonicity is an artificial construct...

Which is why you are against us. All this too, is an 'attack' upon Christianity and God's truths. That isn't an 'artificial' enemy. Galatians says you are anathema.

Do I spend more time with atheists on TOL? Yep. That's neither here nor there. You need to know, up front, that he Ura Book is seen as 1) a joke (I actually listed a few of the blatant errors in this thread) and 2) that it is an affront to Christianity. Such shouldn't 'surprise' you, but I see it does. They are incompatible. You might as well be a Mormon. These are the same exact kinds of fabrications with the exact same kinds of blatant errors.

 

[Caino]

▼This▼

As such, he is defending his home turf. That's why I don't start a bunch of Calvinism threads. This isn't that website. I'm at least an opponent to the stance of this website. It would be presumptuous of me to start an "AW Pink" thread without expecting a LOT of complaint. So guess what? I don't do it. You did. The word that comes to mind is 'discernment.' I don't think you are very discerning to have a Urant thread on a MAD/OV board. The tension caused MUST stay.
Nobody is afraid of anything here. :think: You ask this a lot. ▲see above▲

Lon, I do understand your points about this being a right wing christian forum. Honestly, when I first found TOL I thought it was like a general theology forum, all sorts welcome. When I looked closer at the rules and my experience with the mods, I did start to realize that it's not what it appears to be. So I agreed with Delmar to stay out of the Christians only area, seemed reasonable to me. This one thread is in the general Religion area, but again I realize that even this area is not a diversity area.

I agree that we are not liked here and we should expect blowback, I just assumed that would be in the form of debate not childish trolling.

Anyhow, I feel like the UB would be exciting for at least someone on TOL but, Judaism looks at you just like you look at Mormanism or the UB. And just like you may wonder how Israel could be so blind to Jesus, I don't know why the UB dosnt appeal to Christians the way it does to us.

 

[Aimiel]

Can you show from a precursory reading of the first 5 papers...

Since I know The Living God and His Living Word I don't have to read any papers inspired by a false god that doesn't even exist to know that they are counterfeit. The mere exclusion of Jesus' Blood from the UB is enough proof that the lies included in the papers are from hell. Every time demons foment their doctrine they attack The Blood of The Lamb, which is what believers use to defeat them. They know where The Power lies. Too bad you don't.

 

[Caino]

Which is why you are against us. All this too, is an 'attack' upon Christianity and God's truths. That isn't an 'artificial' enemy. Galatians says you are anathema.

Do I spend more time with atheists on TOL? Yep. That's neither here nor there. You need to know, up front, that he Ura Book is seen as 1) a joke (I actually listed a few of the blatant errors in this thread) and 2) that it is an affront to Christianity. Such shouldn't 'surprise' you, but I see it does. They are incompatible. You might as well be a Mormon. These are the same exact kinds of fabrications with the exact same kinds of blatant errors.

Ok fine, but Paul never dreamed that his simple letters of correspondence would one day be converted to the "Word of God" by the church at Rome, making Paul equal with Jesus.

 

[journey]

The obvious fact here is that he's targeted the UB for his 'trolling' and 'ridicule'...it becoming an obsession. It could also be his penchant for drama, his general boredom, and other psychological factors where he cannot resist such behavior, which doesn't show much of the Holy Spirit in control, since one of His fruits of the Sprit is 'self-control'. His only MO is to constantly ridicule. That's all. - and that's sad. He hasn't yet shown the intellectual capacity to actually engage the subject seriously, nor shown an intent to do so.

The truth is, even for all his fan-fare and 'flaming', a serious person will study the material for himself, do his own research to determine what is true or false about any allegations or claims. All that info. has been provided for a platform for discussion. An integrous person would consider all the data, postulate or further research into matters thru his own study, share his viewpoints, and move along afterwards if he no longer wishes to engage. - not continually TROLL the thread.

The UB opens the whole spectrum of theology up, to explore on a number of subjects. Its discourses on Religion are here.


pj

More begging for people to study the urantia UFO cult garbage. The problem is that serious people don't study garbage that is FICTION. There's nothing of any worth to study in the ub.

 

[freelight]

if you want to research points.........

if you want to research points.........

Originally Posted by Lon:


The Urantia Papers are against Christianity on these Orthodox points:

Jesus' crucifixion is not considered an atonement for the sins of humanity.[67]

Definitely, as I've shared here before on 'blood-atonement'. One doesn't need the UB to see this, as many other schools reject this concept of 'atonement', and at best see aspects of this as 'metaphorical/symbolic', while the real atonement one does for himself and God is thru 'repentance' and 'reparation' of sins, returning to God and coming back into harmony with divine law and principle. This is the kind of 'atonement' that God accepts, the surrender of the soul to His will, and the return to his ways.

No amount of 'blood-shed' can make a conscience clean. Now as to the power of Jesus blood to cleanse from all sin,...this is symbolic, but only the sanctified soul filled/inspired by the Spirit of God can actually live the divine life and abide in the consciousness of God, directed thereby. In this sense the mystics understand the spiritual life, in spirit and truth. Such is true worship.

The crucifixion is taught to be an outcome of the fears of religious leaders of the day, who regarded his teachings as a threat to their positions of authority.

Well, yes...it happened at the hands of evil, misguided, murder-driven human beings. Much was at stake religious/politically by many different parties involved, or concerned with Jesus ministry. Jesus very bestowal (incarnation) and teachings were enough in and of themselves to effect change/transformation of soul, in those receptive to his goodnews of the kingdom of heaven. In this the revelation of the Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of Man is born as the Spirit bears witness, validating the truth of Jesus teaching.

Jesus is considered the human incarnation of "Michael of Nebadon," one of more than 700,000 "Paradise Sons" of God, or "Creator Sons." Jesus is not considered the second person of the Trinity as he is in Christianity. The book refers to the Eternal Son as the second person of the Trinity.[85]

Yep, the 'Creator Sons' and the order of 'Michael' has been covered previously. Jesus is one among many of this high divine Sons, - this in nowise detracts or diminishes his role and relationship to us as our 'Creator' and Savior, by his life-bestowal and divine word (teachings) which is still to us life.

Jesus was born on earth through natural means of conception instead of a virgin birth.[86]

Yes, according to this record. There is no reason to believe that a Creator-Son could be born thru normal physical means and it still not be 'miraculous' given that thru the mystery of 'incarnation',...a veritable 'god' could experience life as a human being, and reveal 'God' thru such a life of committed loyalty to the Father's will. We've challenged the concept of a 'virgin birth' elsewhere.

Jesus did not walk on water or perform some of the miracles that are attributed to him in the Bible.[87]

According to the papers, there are some accounts in the NT that are incorrect or wrongly attributed, in which it proposes some corrections. One is free to accept these propositions or not.



pj

 

[freelight]

More begging for people to study the urantia UFO cult garbage. The problem is that serious people don't study garbage that is FICTION. There's nothing of any worth to study in the ub.

Says an ignoramous who hasn't read the papers therefore has nothing of real value or meaning to contribute here, but blind condemnation. By the same token, many non-believers in the bible could say the same thing to that collection of books. Apples and oranges. You have nothing in this discussion really, and continue to prove it.



pj

 

[journey]

Lon your argument of canonicity is an artificial construct of the institutional church which has been used to control your thinking as well as the general community. The same church has used your bogus argument to commit any number of atrocities. By first falsely claiming that God wrote the heavily redacted scripture books, any disagreement is then an artificial blasphemy. The same kinds of people made the same kinds of arguments in order to withstand Jesus' gospel, but you are unable to understand that. Rather than listen with your heart you are blinded by authoritarianism and false religious pride.

The Urantia Book stands on its own merits, it has already begun to be validated by scientific finding not known in the age it was revealed.

We should be friends in our faith in Jesus Christ regardless of theological differences, but you chose to make us an artificial enemy. And my gosh, look at how much of an audience the Atheist are given on this site while you battle us????

You don't get it: the urantia UFO cult materials are fiction garbage - anti-Christ and anti-Christian, so urantia UFO cult members are NOT brothers and sisters of the faith. At best, the urantia UFO cult is a false religion.

 

[freelight]

Since I know The Living God and His Living Word I don't have to read any papers inspired by a false god that doesn't even exist to know that they are counterfeit. The mere exclusion of Jesus' Blood from the UB is enough proof that the lies included in the papers are from hell. Every time demons foment their doctrine they attack The Blood of The Lamb, which is what believers use to defeat them. They know where The Power lies. Too bad you don't.

Then you have no real value or meaning to contribute in a discussion on the papers, so are just a sock-puppet here from the very first page of this thread....and offer the same rhetoric and spin. The first 5 papers do not discuss any blood-sacrifice but focus on the nature of God and his relationship to the universe and all sentient beings. Your willful ignorance and chosen bigotry in an open investigation is noted, and is your current MO. You bring nothing to the discussion, but presumption, bigotry and condemnation. You stale-mate yourself.



pj

 

[Aimiel]

Quite the contrary, I can dispute every premise stated in the papers which violates Scripture, since The Author of The Holy Scriptures lives in me. I represent Him here on the earth (not Urantia). My motives are pure, I assure you. Your spin on my agenda is noted, as is your standard vitrol, reserved only for born again Christians, whom you hate more than your own fate (hell). I'm here to steer any who are simple enough to fall for the lies in Urantia papers or other nonsense you or Caino try to pass off as 'truth'.

 

[journey]

I've addressed you and your misrepresentations already.

The idea of 'buying' or 'selling' is yours alone.

If you're not interested in discussion, then leave the thread.

pj

You're stuck with me. I'm here for as long as you try to sell the urantia UFO cult garbage here on TOL. So, I won't be leaving the thread. If you're not trying to sell the urantia UFO cult garbage, what are you attempting to do with it?

 

[journey]

Yes, I do, I believe the Urantia Book is exactly what it says it is and authorized by none other that Jesus, aka Christ Michael, the Son of the Living God.

And what did they say about Jesus? The same thing you say about us.

I feel sorry for you - you are one terribly confused person who has bought a load of fiction garbage, the urantia UFO cult. I'm glad that it's your problem and not mine.

 

[journey]

Ok fine, but Paul never dreamed that his simple letters of correspondence would one day be converted to the "Word of God" by the church at Rome, making Paul equal with Jesus.

DUH! Jesus Christ Himself gave the Apostle Paul what he revealed. Jesus Christ went willingly to the cross for big reasons, and there were many big changes at the cross. The Apostle Paul gives those reasons.

The ub reveals nothing except a rather large fiction comic book that is anti-Christ and anti-Christian.

 

[freelight]

Still ignorant of the material............

Still ignorant of the material............

You're stuck with me. I'm here for as long as you try to sell the urantia UFO cult garbage here on TOL. So, I won't be leaving the thread. If you're not trying to sell the urantia UFO cult garbage, what are you attempting to do with it?

You still have no clue what this thread is about. Discussion. You are the one assuming I'm selling anything. I'm not. I serve as an expositor/expounder and explorer of religious ideas, concepts and principles...and more. You apparently don't even know me or my eclectic religious studies,...this particular thread is about the Urantia Papers, hence there being DISCUSSION on them. Hello?

This is just one text among many others that are available for discussion. If you continue the way you're going, you will be put on ignore, since you are retarding the purpose of the thread, and are proving to be a waste of time in the true interest of having an intelligent discussion. Your following response will determine if you go on ignore or not, since my space and time investments have value, and will be limited to response-ability and consistency of dialogue, by mutual respect.



pj

 

[journey]

You still have no clue what this thread is about. Discussion. You are the one assuming I'm selling anything. I'm not. I serve as an expositor/expounder and explorer of religious ideas, concepts and principles...and more. You apparently don't even know me or my eclectic religious studies,...this particular thread is about the Urantia Papers, hence there being DISCUSSION on them. Hello?

This is just one text among many others that are available for discussion. If you continue the way you're going, you will be put on ignore, since you are retarding the purpose of the thread, and are proving to be a waste of time in the true interest of having an intelligent discussion. Your following response will determine if you go on ignore or not, since my space and time investments have value, and will be limited to response-ability and consistency of dialogue, by mutual respect.



pj

Please go ahead and place me on ignore because I could care less. I will continue to stand AGAINST the urantia UFO cult for as long as it's a topic on TOL. Your work sure does appear to be a SALES job for the urantia UFO cult since you're arguing for it. Call it what you will - I could care less since the result is the same.

 

[journey]

freelight and caino,

Just for the record, I have ZERO respect for the urantia papers and the urantia UFO cult. SIMPLE: it's anti-Christ and anti-Christian FICTION GARBAGE, so I'm obviously against it and will continue to be against it. The ONLY value I see for the urantia papers is as an example for FALSE RELIGIONS.

 

[Stripe]

:mock: freeblight