The Late Great Urantia Revelation
- Thread starter Caino
- Start date
- Status
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Destination Paradise.....
Destination Paradise.....
~*~*~
Blessings to all following,
We pause for a little musical break, with devoted reggea artist Pato Banton, sharing his faith inspired by the 5th Epochal Revelation to the planet. Enjoy
Our soul destiny is Paradise.
Universal love, evolution, progress and ascension for all children of the Most High
Destination Paradise.....
~*~*~
Blessings to all following,
We pause for a little musical break, with devoted reggea artist Pato Banton, sharing his faith inspired by the 5th Epochal Revelation to the planet. Enjoy
Our soul destiny is Paradise.
Universal love, evolution, progress and ascension for all children of the Most High
THE DEFAULT OF ADAM AND EVE
75:0.1 AFTER MORE THAN one hundred years of effort on Urantia, Adam was able to see very little progress outside the Garden; the world at large did not seem to be improving much. The realization of race betterment appeared to be a long way off, and the situation seemed so desperate as to demand something for relief not embraced in the original plans. At least that is what often passed through Adam's mind, and he so expressed himself many times to Eve. Adam and his mate were loyal, but they were isolated from their kind, and they were sorely distressed by the sorry plight of their world.
1. THE URANTIA PROBLEM
75:1.1 The Adamic mission on experimental, rebellion-seared, and isolated Urantia was a formidable undertaking. And the Material Son and Daughter early became aware of the difficulty and complexity of their planetary assignment. Nevertheless, they courageously set about the task of solving their manifold problems. But when they addressed themselves to the all-important work of eliminating the defectives and degenerates from among the human strains, they were quite dismayed. They could see no way out of the dilemma, and they could not take counsel with their superiors on either Jerusem or Edentia. Here they were, isolated and day by day confronted with some new and complicated tangle, some problem that seemed to be unsolvable.
75:1.2 Under normal conditions the first work of a Planetary Adam and Eve would be the co-ordination and blending of the races. But on Urantia such a project seemed just about hopeless, for the races, while biologically fit, had never been purged of their retarded and defective strains.
75:1.3 Adam and Eve found themselves on a sphere wholly unprepared for the proclamation of the brotherhood of man, a world groping about in abject spiritual darkness and cursed with confusion worse confounded by the miscarriage of the mission of the preceding administration. Mind and morals were at a low level, and instead of beginning the task of effecting religious unity, they must begin all anew the work of converting the inhabitants to the most simple forms of religious belief. Instead of finding one language ready for adoption, they were confronted by the world-wide confusion of hundreds upon hundreds of local dialects. No Adam of the planetary service was ever set down on a more difficult world; the obstacles seemed insuperable and the problems beyond creature solution.
75:1.4 They were isolated, and the tremendous sense of loneliness which bore down upon them was all the more heightened by the early departure of the Melchizedek receivers. Only indirectly, by means of the angelic orders, could they communicate with any being off the planet. Slowly their courage weakened, their spirits drooped, and sometimes their faith almost faltered.
75:1.5 And this is the true picture of the consternation of these two noble souls as they pondered the tasks which confronted them. They were both keenly aware of the enormous undertaking involved in the execution of their planetary assignment.
75:1.6 Probably no Material Sons of Nebadon were ever faced with such a difficult and seemingly hopeless task as confronted Adam and Eve in the sorry plight of Urantia. But they would have sometime met with success had they been more farseeing and patient. Both of them, especially Eve, were altogether too impatient; they were not willing to settle down to the long, long endurance test. They wanted to see some immediate results, and they did, but the results thus secured proved most disastrous both to themselves and to their world."
CONT>
75:0.1 AFTER MORE THAN one hundred years of effort on Urantia, Adam was able to see very little progress outside the Garden; the world at large did not seem to be improving much. The realization of race betterment appeared to be a long way off, and the situation seemed so desperate as to demand something for relief not embraced in the original plans. At least that is what often passed through Adam's mind, and he so expressed himself many times to Eve. Adam and his mate were loyal, but they were isolated from their kind, and they were sorely distressed by the sorry plight of their world.
1. THE URANTIA PROBLEM
75:1.1 The Adamic mission on experimental, rebellion-seared, and isolated Urantia was a formidable undertaking. And the Material Son and Daughter early became aware of the difficulty and complexity of their planetary assignment. Nevertheless, they courageously set about the task of solving their manifold problems. But when they addressed themselves to the all-important work of eliminating the defectives and degenerates from among the human strains, they were quite dismayed. They could see no way out of the dilemma, and they could not take counsel with their superiors on either Jerusem or Edentia. Here they were, isolated and day by day confronted with some new and complicated tangle, some problem that seemed to be unsolvable.
75:1.2 Under normal conditions the first work of a Planetary Adam and Eve would be the co-ordination and blending of the races. But on Urantia such a project seemed just about hopeless, for the races, while biologically fit, had never been purged of their retarded and defective strains.
75:1.3 Adam and Eve found themselves on a sphere wholly unprepared for the proclamation of the brotherhood of man, a world groping about in abject spiritual darkness and cursed with confusion worse confounded by the miscarriage of the mission of the preceding administration. Mind and morals were at a low level, and instead of beginning the task of effecting religious unity, they must begin all anew the work of converting the inhabitants to the most simple forms of religious belief. Instead of finding one language ready for adoption, they were confronted by the world-wide confusion of hundreds upon hundreds of local dialects. No Adam of the planetary service was ever set down on a more difficult world; the obstacles seemed insuperable and the problems beyond creature solution.
75:1.4 They were isolated, and the tremendous sense of loneliness which bore down upon them was all the more heightened by the early departure of the Melchizedek receivers. Only indirectly, by means of the angelic orders, could they communicate with any being off the planet. Slowly their courage weakened, their spirits drooped, and sometimes their faith almost faltered.
75:1.5 And this is the true picture of the consternation of these two noble souls as they pondered the tasks which confronted them. They were both keenly aware of the enormous undertaking involved in the execution of their planetary assignment.
75:1.6 Probably no Material Sons of Nebadon were ever faced with such a difficult and seemingly hopeless task as confronted Adam and Eve in the sorry plight of Urantia. But they would have sometime met with success had they been more farseeing and patient. Both of them, especially Eve, were altogether too impatient; they were not willing to settle down to the long, long endurance test. They wanted to see some immediate results, and they did, but the results thus secured proved most disastrous both to themselves and to their world."
CONT>
CALIGASTIA'S PLOT (the crafty beast)
75:2.1 Caligastia paid frequent visits to the Garden and held many conferences with Adam and Eve, but they were adamant to all his suggestions of compromise and short-cut adventures. They had before them enough of the results of rebellion to produce effective immunity against all such insinuating proposals. Even the young offspring of Adam were uninfluenced by the overtures of Daligastia. And of course neither Caligastia nor his associate had power to influence any individual against his will, much less to persuade the children of Adam to do wrong.
75:2.2 It must be remembered that Caligastia was still the titular Planetary Prince of Urantia, a misguided but nevertheless high Son of the local universe. He was not finally deposed until the times of Christ Michael on Urantia.
75:2.3 But the fallen Prince was persistent and determined. He soon gave up working on Adam and decided to try a wily flank attack on Eve. The evil one concluded that the only hope for success lay in the adroit employment of suitable persons belonging to the upper strata of the Nodite group, the descendants of his onetime corporeal-staff associates. And the plans were accordingly laid for entrapping the mother of the violet race.
75:2.4 It was farthest from Eve's intention ever to do anything which would militate against Adam's plans or jeopardize their planetary trust. Knowing the tendency of woman to look upon immediate results rather than to plan farsightedly for more remote effects, the Melchizedeks, before departing, had especially enjoined Eve as to the peculiar dangers besetting their isolated position on the planet and had in particular warned her never to stray from the side of her mate, that is, to attempt no personal or secret methods of furthering their mutual undertakings. Eve had most scrupulously carried out these instructions for more than one hundred years, and it did not occur to her that any danger would attach to the increasingly private and confidential visits she was enjoying with a certain Nodite leader named Serapatatia. The whole affair developed so gradually and naturally that she was taken unawares.
75:2.5 The Garden dwellers had been in contact with the Nodites since the early days of Eden. From these mixed descendants of the defaulting members of Caligastia's staff they had received much valuable help and co-operation, and through them the Edenic regime was now to meet its complete undoing and final overthrow.
CONT>
75:2.1 Caligastia paid frequent visits to the Garden and held many conferences with Adam and Eve, but they were adamant to all his suggestions of compromise and short-cut adventures. They had before them enough of the results of rebellion to produce effective immunity against all such insinuating proposals. Even the young offspring of Adam were uninfluenced by the overtures of Daligastia. And of course neither Caligastia nor his associate had power to influence any individual against his will, much less to persuade the children of Adam to do wrong.
75:2.2 It must be remembered that Caligastia was still the titular Planetary Prince of Urantia, a misguided but nevertheless high Son of the local universe. He was not finally deposed until the times of Christ Michael on Urantia.
75:2.3 But the fallen Prince was persistent and determined. He soon gave up working on Adam and decided to try a wily flank attack on Eve. The evil one concluded that the only hope for success lay in the adroit employment of suitable persons belonging to the upper strata of the Nodite group, the descendants of his onetime corporeal-staff associates. And the plans were accordingly laid for entrapping the mother of the violet race.
75:2.4 It was farthest from Eve's intention ever to do anything which would militate against Adam's plans or jeopardize their planetary trust. Knowing the tendency of woman to look upon immediate results rather than to plan farsightedly for more remote effects, the Melchizedeks, before departing, had especially enjoined Eve as to the peculiar dangers besetting their isolated position on the planet and had in particular warned her never to stray from the side of her mate, that is, to attempt no personal or secret methods of furthering their mutual undertakings. Eve had most scrupulously carried out these instructions for more than one hundred years, and it did not occur to her that any danger would attach to the increasingly private and confidential visits she was enjoying with a certain Nodite leader named Serapatatia. The whole affair developed so gradually and naturally that she was taken unawares.
75:2.5 The Garden dwellers had been in contact with the Nodites since the early days of Eden. From these mixed descendants of the defaulting members of Caligastia's staff they had received much valuable help and co-operation, and through them the Edenic regime was now to meet its complete undoing and final overthrow.
CONT>
THE TEMPTATION OF EVE
75:3.1 Adam had just finished his first one hundred years on earth when Serapatatia, upon the death of his father, came to the leadership of the western or Syrian confederation of the Nodite tribes. Serapatatia was a brown-tinted man, a brilliant descendant of the onetime chief of the Dalamatia commission on health mated with one of the master female minds of the blue race of those distant days. All down through the ages this line had held authority and wielded a great influence among the western Nodite tribes.
75:3.2 Serapatatia had made several visits to the Garden and had become deeply impressed with the righteousness of Adam's cause. And shortly after assuming the leadership of the Syrian Nodites, he announced his intention of establishing an affiliation with the work of Adam and Eve in the Garden. The majority of his people joined him in this program, and Adam was cheered by the news that the most powerful and the most intelligent of all the neighboring tribes had swung over almost bodily to the support of the program for world improvement; it was decidedly heartening. And shortly after this great event, Serapatatia and his new staff were entertained by Adam and Eve in their own home.
75:3.3 Serapatatia became one of the most able and efficient of all of Adam's lieutenants. He was entirely honest and thoroughly sincere in all of his activities; he was never conscious, even later on, that he was being used as a circumstantial tool of the wily Caligastia.
75:3.4 Presently, Serapatatia became the associate chairman of the Edenic commission on tribal relations, and many plans were laid for the more vigorous prosecution of the work of winning the remote tribes to the cause of the Garden.
75:3.5 He held many conferences with Adam and Eve—especially with Eve—and they talked over many plans for improving their methods. One day, during a talk with Eve, it occurred to Serapatatia that it would be very helpful if, while awaiting the recruiting of large numbers of the violet race, something could be done in the meantime immediately to advance the needy waiting tribes. Serapatatia contended that, if the Nodites, as the most progressive and co-operative race, could have a leader born to them of part origin in the violet stock, it would constitute a powerful tie binding these peoples more closely to the Garden. And all of this was soberly and honestly considered to be for the good of the world since this child, to be reared and educated in the Garden, would exert a great influence for good over his father's people.
75:3.6 It should again be emphasized that Serapatatia was altogether honest and wholly sincere in all that he proposed. He never once suspected that he was playing into the hands of Caligastia and Daligastia. Serapatatia was entirely loyal to the plan of building up a strong reserve of the violet race before attempting the world-wide upstepping of the confused peoples of Urantia. But this would require hundreds of years to consummate, and he was impatient; he wanted to see some immediate results—something in his own lifetime. He made it clear to Eve that Adam was oftentimes discouraged by the little that had been accomplished toward uplifting the world.
75:3.7 For more than five years these plans were secretly matured. At last they had developed to the point where Eve consented to have a secret conference with Cano, the most brilliant mind and active leader of the near-by colony of friendly Nodites. Cano was very sympathetic with the Adamic regime; in fact, he was the sincere spiritual leader of those neighboring Nodites who favored friendly relations with the Garden.
75:3.8 The fateful meeting occurred during the twilight hours of the autumn evening, not far from the home of Adam. Eve had never before met the beautiful and enthusiastic Cano—and he was a magnificent specimen of the survival of the superior physique and outstanding intellect of his remote progenitors of the Prince's staff. And Cano also thoroughly believed in the righteousness of the Serapatatia project. (Outside of the Garden, multiple mating was a common practice.)
75:3.9 Influenced by flattery, enthusiasm, and great personal persuasion, Eve then and there consented to embark upon the much-discussed enterprise, to add her own little scheme of world saving to the larger and more far-reaching divine plan. Before she quite realized what was transpiring, the fatal step had been taken. It was done.
75:3.1 Adam had just finished his first one hundred years on earth when Serapatatia, upon the death of his father, came to the leadership of the western or Syrian confederation of the Nodite tribes. Serapatatia was a brown-tinted man, a brilliant descendant of the onetime chief of the Dalamatia commission on health mated with one of the master female minds of the blue race of those distant days. All down through the ages this line had held authority and wielded a great influence among the western Nodite tribes.
75:3.2 Serapatatia had made several visits to the Garden and had become deeply impressed with the righteousness of Adam's cause. And shortly after assuming the leadership of the Syrian Nodites, he announced his intention of establishing an affiliation with the work of Adam and Eve in the Garden. The majority of his people joined him in this program, and Adam was cheered by the news that the most powerful and the most intelligent of all the neighboring tribes had swung over almost bodily to the support of the program for world improvement; it was decidedly heartening. And shortly after this great event, Serapatatia and his new staff were entertained by Adam and Eve in their own home.
75:3.3 Serapatatia became one of the most able and efficient of all of Adam's lieutenants. He was entirely honest and thoroughly sincere in all of his activities; he was never conscious, even later on, that he was being used as a circumstantial tool of the wily Caligastia.
75:3.4 Presently, Serapatatia became the associate chairman of the Edenic commission on tribal relations, and many plans were laid for the more vigorous prosecution of the work of winning the remote tribes to the cause of the Garden.
75:3.5 He held many conferences with Adam and Eve—especially with Eve—and they talked over many plans for improving their methods. One day, during a talk with Eve, it occurred to Serapatatia that it would be very helpful if, while awaiting the recruiting of large numbers of the violet race, something could be done in the meantime immediately to advance the needy waiting tribes. Serapatatia contended that, if the Nodites, as the most progressive and co-operative race, could have a leader born to them of part origin in the violet stock, it would constitute a powerful tie binding these peoples more closely to the Garden. And all of this was soberly and honestly considered to be for the good of the world since this child, to be reared and educated in the Garden, would exert a great influence for good over his father's people.
75:3.6 It should again be emphasized that Serapatatia was altogether honest and wholly sincere in all that he proposed. He never once suspected that he was playing into the hands of Caligastia and Daligastia. Serapatatia was entirely loyal to the plan of building up a strong reserve of the violet race before attempting the world-wide upstepping of the confused peoples of Urantia. But this would require hundreds of years to consummate, and he was impatient; he wanted to see some immediate results—something in his own lifetime. He made it clear to Eve that Adam was oftentimes discouraged by the little that had been accomplished toward uplifting the world.
75:3.7 For more than five years these plans were secretly matured. At last they had developed to the point where Eve consented to have a secret conference with Cano, the most brilliant mind and active leader of the near-by colony of friendly Nodites. Cano was very sympathetic with the Adamic regime; in fact, he was the sincere spiritual leader of those neighboring Nodites who favored friendly relations with the Garden.
75:3.8 The fateful meeting occurred during the twilight hours of the autumn evening, not far from the home of Adam. Eve had never before met the beautiful and enthusiastic Cano—and he was a magnificent specimen of the survival of the superior physique and outstanding intellect of his remote progenitors of the Prince's staff. And Cano also thoroughly believed in the righteousness of the Serapatatia project. (Outside of the Garden, multiple mating was a common practice.)
75:3.9 Influenced by flattery, enthusiasm, and great personal persuasion, Eve then and there consented to embark upon the much-discussed enterprise, to add her own little scheme of world saving to the larger and more far-reaching divine plan. Before she quite realized what was transpiring, the fatal step had been taken. It was done.
REPERCUSSIONS OF DEFAULT
75:5.1 Eve's disillusionment was truly pathetic. Adam discerned the whole predicament and, while heartbroken and dejected, entertained only pity and sympathy for his erring mate.
75:5.2 It was in the despair of the realization of failure that Adam, the day after Eve's misstep, sought out Laotta, the brilliant Nodite woman who was head of the western schools of the Garden, and with premeditation committed the folly of Eve. But do not misunderstand; Adam was not beguiled; he knew exactly what he was about; he deliberately chose to share the fate of Eve. He loved his mate with a supermortal affection, and the thought of the possibility of a lonely vigil on Urantia without her was more than he could endure.
75:5.3 When they learned what had happened to Eve, the infuriated inhabitants of the Garden became unmanageable; they declared war on the near-by Nodite settlement. They swept out through the gates of Eden and down upon these unprepared people, utterly destroying them—not a man, woman, or child was spared. And Cano, the father of Cain yet unborn, also perished.
75:5.4 Upon the realization of what had happened, Serapatatia was overcome with consternation and beside himself with fear and remorse. The next day he drowned himself in the great river.
75:5.5 The children of Adam sought to comfort their distracted mother while their father wandered in solitude for thirty days. At the end of that time judgment asserted itself, and Adam returned to his home and began to plan for their future course of action.
75:5.6 The consequences of the follies of misguided parents are so often shared by their innocent children. The upright and noble sons and daughters of Adam and Eve were overwhelmed by the inexplicable sorrow of the unbelievable tragedy which had been so suddenly and so ruthlessly thrust upon them. Not in fifty years did the older of these children recover from the sorrow and sadness of those tragic days, especially the terror of that period of thirty days during which their father was absent from home while their distracted mother was in complete ignorance of his whereabouts or fate.
Le Paradis perdu (Paradise lost) by Thierry Caro 75:5.7 And those same thirty days were as long years of sorrow and suffering to Eve. Never did this noble soul fully recover from the effects of that excruciating period of mental suffering and spiritual sorrow. No feature of their subsequent deprivations and material hardships ever began to compare in Eve's memory with those terrible days and awful nights of loneliness and unbearable uncertainty. She learned of the rash act of Serapatatia and did not know whether her mate had in sorrow destroyed himself or had been removed from the world in retribution for her misstep. And when Adam returned, Eve experienced a satisfaction of joy and gratitude that never was effaced by their long and difficult life partnership of toiling service.
75:5.8 Time passed, but Adam was not certain of the nature of their offense until seventy days after the default of Eve, when the Melchizedek receivers returned to Urantia and assumed jurisdiction over world affairs. And then he knew they had failed.
75:5.9 But still more trouble was brewing: The news of the annihilation of the Nodite settlement near Eden was not slow in reaching the home tribes of Serapatatia to the north, and presently a great host was assembling to march on the Garden. And this was the beginning of a long and bitter warfare between the Adamites and the Nodites, for these hostilities kept up long after Adam and his followers emigrated to the second garden in the Euphrates valley. There was intense and lasting "enmity between that man and the woman, between his seed and her seed."
ADAM AND EVE LEAVE THE GARDEN
75:6.1 When Adam learned that the Nodites were on the march, he sought the counsel of the Melchizedeks, but they refused to advise him, only telling him to do as he thought best and promising their friendly co-operation, as far as possible, in any course he might decide upon. The Melchizedeks had been forbidden to interfere with the personal plans of Adam and Eve.
75:6.2 Adam knew that he and Eve had failed; the presence of the Melchizedek receivers told him that, though he still knew nothing of their personal status or future fate. He held an all-night conference with some twelve hundred loyal followers who pledged themselves to follow their leader, and the next day at noon these pilgrims went forth from Eden in quest of new homes. Adam had no liking for war and accordingly elected to leave the first garden to the Nodites unopposed.
75:6.3 The Edenic caravan was halted on the third day out from the Garden by the arrival of the seraphic transports from Jerusem. And for the first time Adam and Eve were informed of what was to become of their children. While the transports stood by, those children who had arrived at the age of choice (twenty years) were given the option of remaining on Urantia with their parents or of becoming wards of the Most Highs of Norlatiadek. Two thirds chose to go to Edentia; about one third elected to remain with their parents. All children of prechoice age were taken to Edentia. No one could have beheld the sorrowful parting of this Material Son and Daughter and their children without realizing that the way of the transgressor is hard. These offspring of Adam and Eve are now on Edentia; we do not know what disposition is to be made of them.
75:6.4 It was a sad, sad caravan that prepared to journey on. Could anything have been more tragic! To have come to a world in such high hopes, to have been so auspiciously received, and then to go forth in disgrace from Eden, only to lose more than three fourths of their children even before finding a new abiding place!
75:5.1 Eve's disillusionment was truly pathetic. Adam discerned the whole predicament and, while heartbroken and dejected, entertained only pity and sympathy for his erring mate.
75:5.2 It was in the despair of the realization of failure that Adam, the day after Eve's misstep, sought out Laotta, the brilliant Nodite woman who was head of the western schools of the Garden, and with premeditation committed the folly of Eve. But do not misunderstand; Adam was not beguiled; he knew exactly what he was about; he deliberately chose to share the fate of Eve. He loved his mate with a supermortal affection, and the thought of the possibility of a lonely vigil on Urantia without her was more than he could endure.
75:5.3 When they learned what had happened to Eve, the infuriated inhabitants of the Garden became unmanageable; they declared war on the near-by Nodite settlement. They swept out through the gates of Eden and down upon these unprepared people, utterly destroying them—not a man, woman, or child was spared. And Cano, the father of Cain yet unborn, also perished.
75:5.4 Upon the realization of what had happened, Serapatatia was overcome with consternation and beside himself with fear and remorse. The next day he drowned himself in the great river.
75:5.5 The children of Adam sought to comfort their distracted mother while their father wandered in solitude for thirty days. At the end of that time judgment asserted itself, and Adam returned to his home and began to plan for their future course of action.
75:5.6 The consequences of the follies of misguided parents are so often shared by their innocent children. The upright and noble sons and daughters of Adam and Eve were overwhelmed by the inexplicable sorrow of the unbelievable tragedy which had been so suddenly and so ruthlessly thrust upon them. Not in fifty years did the older of these children recover from the sorrow and sadness of those tragic days, especially the terror of that period of thirty days during which their father was absent from home while their distracted mother was in complete ignorance of his whereabouts or fate.
Le Paradis perdu (Paradise lost) by Thierry Caro 75:5.7 And those same thirty days were as long years of sorrow and suffering to Eve. Never did this noble soul fully recover from the effects of that excruciating period of mental suffering and spiritual sorrow. No feature of their subsequent deprivations and material hardships ever began to compare in Eve's memory with those terrible days and awful nights of loneliness and unbearable uncertainty. She learned of the rash act of Serapatatia and did not know whether her mate had in sorrow destroyed himself or had been removed from the world in retribution for her misstep. And when Adam returned, Eve experienced a satisfaction of joy and gratitude that never was effaced by their long and difficult life partnership of toiling service.
75:5.8 Time passed, but Adam was not certain of the nature of their offense until seventy days after the default of Eve, when the Melchizedek receivers returned to Urantia and assumed jurisdiction over world affairs. And then he knew they had failed.
75:5.9 But still more trouble was brewing: The news of the annihilation of the Nodite settlement near Eden was not slow in reaching the home tribes of Serapatatia to the north, and presently a great host was assembling to march on the Garden. And this was the beginning of a long and bitter warfare between the Adamites and the Nodites, for these hostilities kept up long after Adam and his followers emigrated to the second garden in the Euphrates valley. There was intense and lasting "enmity between that man and the woman, between his seed and her seed."
ADAM AND EVE LEAVE THE GARDEN
75:6.1 When Adam learned that the Nodites were on the march, he sought the counsel of the Melchizedeks, but they refused to advise him, only telling him to do as he thought best and promising their friendly co-operation, as far as possible, in any course he might decide upon. The Melchizedeks had been forbidden to interfere with the personal plans of Adam and Eve.
75:6.2 Adam knew that he and Eve had failed; the presence of the Melchizedek receivers told him that, though he still knew nothing of their personal status or future fate. He held an all-night conference with some twelve hundred loyal followers who pledged themselves to follow their leader, and the next day at noon these pilgrims went forth from Eden in quest of new homes. Adam had no liking for war and accordingly elected to leave the first garden to the Nodites unopposed.
75:6.3 The Edenic caravan was halted on the third day out from the Garden by the arrival of the seraphic transports from Jerusem. And for the first time Adam and Eve were informed of what was to become of their children. While the transports stood by, those children who had arrived at the age of choice (twenty years) were given the option of remaining on Urantia with their parents or of becoming wards of the Most Highs of Norlatiadek. Two thirds chose to go to Edentia; about one third elected to remain with their parents. All children of prechoice age were taken to Edentia. No one could have beheld the sorrowful parting of this Material Son and Daughter and their children without realizing that the way of the transgressor is hard. These offspring of Adam and Eve are now on Edentia; we do not know what disposition is to be made of them.
75:6.4 It was a sad, sad caravan that prepared to journey on. Could anything have been more tragic! To have come to a world in such high hopes, to have been so auspiciously received, and then to go forth in disgrace from Eden, only to lose more than three fourths of their children even before finding a new abiding place!
......195:8.8 "It is not necessary to sacrifice faith in God in order to enjoy the blessings of the modern secularistic revolt: tolerance, social service, democratic government, and civil liberties. It was not necessary for the secularists to antagonize true religion in order to promote science and to advance education.
195:8.9 But secularism is not the sole parent of all these recent gains in the enlargement of living. Behind the gains of the twentieth century are not only science and secularism but also the unrecognized and unacknowledged spiritual workings of the life and teaching of Jesus of Nazareth.
195:8.10 Without God, without religion, scientific secularism can never co-ordinate its forces, harmonize its divergent and rivalrous interests, races, and nationalisms. This secularistic human society, notwithstanding its unparalleled materialistic achievement, is slowly disintegrating. The chief cohesive force resisting this disintegration of antagonism is nationalism. And nationalism is the chief barrier to world peace.
195:8.11 The inherent weakness of secularism is that it discards ethics and religion for politics and power. You simply cannot establish the brotherhood of men while ignoring or denying the fatherhood of God.
195:8.12 Secular social and political optimism is an illusion. Without God, neither freedom and liberty, nor property and wealth will lead to peace.
195:8.13 The complete secularization of science, education, industry, and society can lead only to disaster. During the first third of the twentieth century Urantians killed more human beings than were killed during the whole of the Christian dispensation up to that time. And this is only the beginning of the dire harvest of materialism and secularism; still more terrible destruction is yet to come."......
195:8.9 But secularism is not the sole parent of all these recent gains in the enlargement of living. Behind the gains of the twentieth century are not only science and secularism but also the unrecognized and unacknowledged spiritual workings of the life and teaching of Jesus of Nazareth.
195:8.10 Without God, without religion, scientific secularism can never co-ordinate its forces, harmonize its divergent and rivalrous interests, races, and nationalisms. This secularistic human society, notwithstanding its unparalleled materialistic achievement, is slowly disintegrating. The chief cohesive force resisting this disintegration of antagonism is nationalism. And nationalism is the chief barrier to world peace.
195:8.11 The inherent weakness of secularism is that it discards ethics and religion for politics and power. You simply cannot establish the brotherhood of men while ignoring or denying the fatherhood of God.
195:8.12 Secular social and political optimism is an illusion. Without God, neither freedom and liberty, nor property and wealth will lead to peace.
195:8.13 The complete secularization of science, education, industry, and society can lead only to disaster. During the first third of the twentieth century Urantians killed more human beings than were killed during the whole of the Christian dispensation up to that time. And this is only the beginning of the dire harvest of materialism and secularism; still more terrible destruction is yet to come."......
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Free will liberties...........
Free will liberties...........
~*~*~
Continuing discussion on 'free will', linked to the 'Free Will' thread here - the idea that individual free will is 'sovereign' as far as pertains to one's own personal destiny challenges some concepts of God's sovereignty especially within Calvinist theology, where everything is predetermined by God, thus apparently limiting or wholly nullifying any sense of true libertarian freedom.
Free will liberties...........
~*~*~
Continuing discussion on 'free will', linked to the 'Free Will' thread here
- the idea that individual free will is 'sovereign' as far as pertains to one's own personal destiny challenges some concepts of God's sovereignty especially within Calvinist theology, where everything is predetermined by God, thus apparently limiting or wholly nullifying any sense of true libertarian freedom.
6. MATERIALISM
195:6.1 Scientists have unintentionally precipitated mankind into a materialistic panic; they have started an unthinking run on the moral bank of the ages, but this bank of human experience has vast spiritual resources; it can stand the demands being made upon it. Only unthinking men become panicky about the spiritual assets of the human race. When the materialistic-secular panic is over, the religion of Jesus will not be found bankrupt. The spiritual bank of the kingdom of heaven will be paying out faith, hope, and moral security to all who draw upon it “in his name.”
195:6.2 No matter what the apparent conflict between materialism and the teachings of Jesus may be, you can rest assured that, in the ages to come, the teachings of the Master will fully triumph. In reality, true religion cannot become involved in any controversy with science; it is in no way concerned with material things. Religion is simply indifferent to, but sympathetic with, science, while it supremely concerns itself with the scientist.
195:6.3 The pursuit of mere knowledge, without the attendant interpretation of wisdom and the spiritual insight of religious experience, eventually leads to pessimism and human despair. A little knowledge is truly disconcerting.
195:6.4 At the time of this writing the worst of the materialistic age is over; the day of a better understanding is already beginning to dawn. The higher minds of the scientific world are no longer wholly materialistic in their philosophy, but the rank and file of the people still lean in that direction as a result of former teachings. But this age of physical realism is only a passing episode in man's life on earth. Modern science has left true religion—the teachings of Jesus as translated in the lives of his believers—untouched. All science has done is to destroy the childlike illusions of the misinterpretations of life.
195:6.5 Science is a quantitative experience, religion a qualitative experience, as regards man's life on earth. Science deals with phenomena; religion, with origins, values, and goals. To assign causes as an explanation of physical phenomena is to confess ignorance of ultimates and in the end only leads the scientist straight back to the first great cause—the Universal Father of Paradise.
195:6.6 The violent swing from an age of miracles to an age of machines has proved altogether upsetting to man. The cleverness and dexterity of the false philosophies of mechanism belie their very mechanistic contentions. The fatalistic agility of the mind of a materialist forever disproves his assertions that the universe is a blind and purposeless energy phenomenon.
195:6.7 The mechanistic naturalism of some supposedly educated men and the thoughtless secularism of the man in the street are both exclusively concerned with things; they are barren of all real values, sanctions, and satisfactions of a spiritual nature, as well as being devoid of faith, hope, and eternal assurances. One of the great troubles with modern life is that man thinks he is too busy to find time for spiritual meditation and religious devotion.
195:6.8 Materialism reduces man to a soulless automaton and constitutes him merely an arithmetical symbol finding a helpless place in the mathematical formula of an unromantic and mechanistic universe. But whence comes all this vast universe of mathematics without a Master Mathematician? Science may expatiate on the conservation of matter, but religion validates the conservation of men's souls—it concerns their experience with spiritual realities and eternal values.
195:6.9 The materialistic sociologist of today surveys a community, makes a report thereon, and leaves the people as he found them. Nineteen hundred years ago, unlearned Galileans surveyed Jesus giving his life as a spiritual contribution to man's inner experience and then went out and turned the whole Roman Empire upside down.
195:6.10 But religious leaders are making a great mistake when they try to call modern man to spiritual battle with the trumpet blasts of the Middle Ages. Religion must provide itself with new and up-to-date slogans. Neither democracy nor any other political panacea will take the place of spiritual progress. False religions may represent an evasion of reality, but Jesus in his gospel introduced mortal man to the very entrance upon an eternal reality of spiritual progression.
195:6.11 To say that mind “emerged” from matter explains nothing. If the universe were merely a mechanism and mind were unapart from matter, we would never have two differing interpretations of any observed phenomenon. The concepts of truth, beauty, and goodness are not inherent in either physics or chemistry. A machine cannot know, much less know truth, hunger for righteousness, and cherish goodness.
195:6.12 Science may be physical, but the mind of the truth-discerning scientist is at once supermaterial. Matter knows not truth, neither can it love mercy nor delight in spiritual realities. Moral convictions based on spiritual enlightenment and rooted in human experience are just as real and certain as mathematical deductions based on physical observations, but on another and higher level.
195:6.13 If men were only machines, they would react more or less uniformly to a material universe. Individuality, much less personality, would be nonexistent.
195:6.14 The fact of the absolute mechanism of Paradise at the center of the universe of universes, in the presence of the unqualified volition of the Second Source and Center, makes forever certain that determiners are not the exclusive law of the cosmos. Materialism is there, but it is not exclusive; mechanism is there, but it is not unqualified; determinism is there, but it is not alone.
195:6.15 The finite universe of matter would eventually become uniform and deterministic but for the combined presence of mind and spirit. The influence of the cosmic mind constantly injects spontaneity into even the material worlds.
195:6.16 Freedom or initiative in any realm of existence is directly proportional to the degree of spiritual influence and cosmic-mind control; that is, in human experience, the degree of the actuality of doing “the Father's will.” And so, when you once start out to find God, that is the conclusive proof that God has already found you.
195:6.17 The sincere pursuit of goodness, beauty, and truth leads to God. And every scientific discovery demonstrates the existence of both freedom and uniformity in the universe. The discoverer was free to make the discovery. The thing discovered is real and apparently uniform, or else it could not have become known as a thing.
195:6.1 Scientists have unintentionally precipitated mankind into a materialistic panic; they have started an unthinking run on the moral bank of the ages, but this bank of human experience has vast spiritual resources; it can stand the demands being made upon it. Only unthinking men become panicky about the spiritual assets of the human race. When the materialistic-secular panic is over, the religion of Jesus will not be found bankrupt. The spiritual bank of the kingdom of heaven will be paying out faith, hope, and moral security to all who draw upon it “in his name.”
195:6.2 No matter what the apparent conflict between materialism and the teachings of Jesus may be, you can rest assured that, in the ages to come, the teachings of the Master will fully triumph. In reality, true religion cannot become involved in any controversy with science; it is in no way concerned with material things. Religion is simply indifferent to, but sympathetic with, science, while it supremely concerns itself with the scientist.
195:6.3 The pursuit of mere knowledge, without the attendant interpretation of wisdom and the spiritual insight of religious experience, eventually leads to pessimism and human despair. A little knowledge is truly disconcerting.
195:6.4 At the time of this writing the worst of the materialistic age is over; the day of a better understanding is already beginning to dawn. The higher minds of the scientific world are no longer wholly materialistic in their philosophy, but the rank and file of the people still lean in that direction as a result of former teachings. But this age of physical realism is only a passing episode in man's life on earth. Modern science has left true religion—the teachings of Jesus as translated in the lives of his believers—untouched. All science has done is to destroy the childlike illusions of the misinterpretations of life.
195:6.5 Science is a quantitative experience, religion a qualitative experience, as regards man's life on earth. Science deals with phenomena; religion, with origins, values, and goals. To assign causes as an explanation of physical phenomena is to confess ignorance of ultimates and in the end only leads the scientist straight back to the first great cause—the Universal Father of Paradise.
195:6.6 The violent swing from an age of miracles to an age of machines has proved altogether upsetting to man. The cleverness and dexterity of the false philosophies of mechanism belie their very mechanistic contentions. The fatalistic agility of the mind of a materialist forever disproves his assertions that the universe is a blind and purposeless energy phenomenon.
195:6.7 The mechanistic naturalism of some supposedly educated men and the thoughtless secularism of the man in the street are both exclusively concerned with things; they are barren of all real values, sanctions, and satisfactions of a spiritual nature, as well as being devoid of faith, hope, and eternal assurances. One of the great troubles with modern life is that man thinks he is too busy to find time for spiritual meditation and religious devotion.
195:6.8 Materialism reduces man to a soulless automaton and constitutes him merely an arithmetical symbol finding a helpless place in the mathematical formula of an unromantic and mechanistic universe. But whence comes all this vast universe of mathematics without a Master Mathematician? Science may expatiate on the conservation of matter, but religion validates the conservation of men's souls—it concerns their experience with spiritual realities and eternal values.
195:6.9 The materialistic sociologist of today surveys a community, makes a report thereon, and leaves the people as he found them. Nineteen hundred years ago, unlearned Galileans surveyed Jesus giving his life as a spiritual contribution to man's inner experience and then went out and turned the whole Roman Empire upside down.
195:6.10 But religious leaders are making a great mistake when they try to call modern man to spiritual battle with the trumpet blasts of the Middle Ages. Religion must provide itself with new and up-to-date slogans. Neither democracy nor any other political panacea will take the place of spiritual progress. False religions may represent an evasion of reality, but Jesus in his gospel introduced mortal man to the very entrance upon an eternal reality of spiritual progression.
195:6.11 To say that mind “emerged” from matter explains nothing. If the universe were merely a mechanism and mind were unapart from matter, we would never have two differing interpretations of any observed phenomenon. The concepts of truth, beauty, and goodness are not inherent in either physics or chemistry. A machine cannot know, much less know truth, hunger for righteousness, and cherish goodness.
195:6.12 Science may be physical, but the mind of the truth-discerning scientist is at once supermaterial. Matter knows not truth, neither can it love mercy nor delight in spiritual realities. Moral convictions based on spiritual enlightenment and rooted in human experience are just as real and certain as mathematical deductions based on physical observations, but on another and higher level.
195:6.13 If men were only machines, they would react more or less uniformly to a material universe. Individuality, much less personality, would be nonexistent.
195:6.14 The fact of the absolute mechanism of Paradise at the center of the universe of universes, in the presence of the unqualified volition of the Second Source and Center, makes forever certain that determiners are not the exclusive law of the cosmos. Materialism is there, but it is not exclusive; mechanism is there, but it is not unqualified; determinism is there, but it is not alone.
195:6.15 The finite universe of matter would eventually become uniform and deterministic but for the combined presence of mind and spirit. The influence of the cosmic mind constantly injects spontaneity into even the material worlds.
195:6.16 Freedom or initiative in any realm of existence is directly proportional to the degree of spiritual influence and cosmic-mind control; that is, in human experience, the degree of the actuality of doing “the Father's will.” And so, when you once start out to find God, that is the conclusive proof that God has already found you.
195:6.17 The sincere pursuit of goodness, beauty, and truth leads to God. And every scientific discovery demonstrates the existence of both freedom and uniformity in the universe. The discoverer was free to make the discovery. The thing discovered is real and apparently uniform, or else it could not have become known as a thing.
Ok Freelight ,
You could have explained yourself on my thread, so-
What is this UB malarkey from the pit of hell?
Without the blood of Christ shed at the cross, none would ever be saved from the fires of hell.
LA
You could have explained yourself on my thread, so-
What is this UB malarkey from the pit of hell?
Without the blood of Christ shed at the cross, none would ever be saved from the fires of hell.
LA
~*~*~
Continuing discussion on 'free will', linked to the 'Free Will' thread here
Who is our God if not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the MOST HIGH in the creation. The Son of Man, who according to our concepts of one directional linear time, is still currently developing within the great pregnant androgynous body of Eve, (Mankind).
Just as we all are held accountable for the sins of the flesh in which we, the invisible minds/spirits are developing, so too the Son of Man Holds himself accountable for the sins of the body in which he developed.
And it is he, who was chosen to serve the great god before the body of Adam into all eternity, and it is he and he alone, who can pay the penalty for the sinful body in which he developed.
Thank God that the life of the woman, who gives birth to he who crushes the head of Satan, isjustified by the child that she bears.
Psalms Psalm 51:5King James Version (KJV) The spirit cries out: Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
It was he who descended from the ends of this age of Man, who Abraham chose as his God, and who know everything that you have done according to your own free will, which you have done in his past.
No, its satanic.
One can not live righteously pleasing to God in this life by receiving and living on the fanciful ideas of men.
The ideas of men are a hindrance to receiving Gods life changing Word.
Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
LA
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Repentance is what is KEY.........
Repentance is what is KEY.........
Hello LA,
I shall get to your thread when I have the time, but be assured that you will be properly and responsibly addressed - this is a very significant subject, deeply symbolic and figurative. My initial 2 part commentary on 'atonement without blood' can be found in my TOL blog here, the last 2 entries at the time I am writing this. It was originally posted in one of EE's threads but he closed the thread, so I blogged these important posts.
I will direct you to this post here for the UB's teaching on this, some articles from Jewish sources and others about blood atonement, the Eucharist, the means of how one obtains forgiveness, etc. - important to follow/read all the links within the posts as they relate to the greater context of our study here.
Questioning the necessity for blood-sacrifice (killing an innocent victim, animal or man) is certainly NOT an idea from the 'pit of hell', but one of spiritual intelligence and a higher way to purity and God-consciousness (via the route of 'repentance' which nullifies the need for the suffering of an innocent victim!), since blood-sacrifice appeals more to the carnally-minded, even though this gesture may symbolize something psychically or spiritually taking place within the soul, figuratively speaking as I shared earlier in my 2-part dissertation. (remember what the true sacrifices acceptable to God are? a humble heart and a contrite spirit, the surrender of the soul in utmost humility, the dying of the 'self' before God, so the spirit-man can rise in newness of life, resurrect from the ashes, etc.) Its about the soul re-turning to God, re-turning to Right DOING, as this is the ONLY way back to God and his laws,...REPENTANCE. - the soul-life of the sinner is returned back to God as the ego dies, the flesh DIES, is crucified as it were, and the soul is renewed and rises in the strength of the spirit, renewed to life, restored to righteousness.
Well, again,...thats what can be debated, the nature of 'atonement' itself (and its various means). The shedding of blood per OT law and temple customs, did NOT atone for all sins, only unintentional ones, AND there are different examples of people having their sins 'atoned' for APART from bloodshed. All this focus on blood without proper spiritual understanding seems to be a 'carnal' fixation'. Even still...only the LIFE of God via His Spirit is our life, our salvation, our inspiration, or renewing, our resurrection-power. Spirit is Life! Furthermore, blood in and of itself has no power, besides one's faith in it to do anything (still its but figurative), so its symbolic meaning is what is important, and what it translates to within the soul, by inner transformation. One can shed all the blood he likes, slaughter a thousand animals, have dozens of demi-gods or avatars self-sacrifice themselves,....but what truly avails for a soul, is when they themselves sacrifice their own self, make their own 'at-one-ment' with God by total surrender to His will, and repent rightfully....this is WHAT AVAILS.
Repentance is what is KEY.........
Hello LA,
I shall get to your thread when I have the time, but be assured that you will be properly and responsibly addressed
- this is a very significant subject, deeply symbolic and figurative. My initial 2 part commentary on 'atonement without blood' can be found in my TOL blog here, the last 2 entries at the time I am writing this. It was originally posted in one of EE's threads but he closed the thread, so I blogged these important posts.I will direct you to this post here for the UB's teaching on this, some articles from Jewish sources and others about blood atonement, the Eucharist, the means of how one obtains forgiveness, etc. - important to follow/read all the links within the posts as they relate to the greater context of our study here.
Questioning the necessity for blood-sacrifice (killing an innocent victim, animal or man) is certainly NOT an idea from the 'pit of hell', but one of spiritual intelligence and a higher way to purity and God-consciousness (via the route of 'repentance' which nullifies the need for the suffering of an innocent victim!), since blood-sacrifice appeals more to the carnally-minded, even though this gesture may symbolize something psychically or spiritually taking place within the soul, figuratively speaking as I shared earlier in my 2-part dissertation. (remember what the true sacrifices acceptable to God are? a humble heart and a contrite spirit, the surrender of the soul in utmost humility, the dying of the 'self' before God, so the spirit-man can rise in newness of life, resurrect from the ashes, etc.) Its about the soul re-turning to God, re-turning to Right DOING, as this is the ONLY way back to God and his laws,...REPENTANCE. - the soul-life of the sinner is returned back to God as the ego dies, the flesh DIES, is crucified as it were, and the soul is renewed and rises in the strength of the spirit, renewed to life, restored to righteousness.
Well, again,...thats what can be debated, the nature of 'atonement' itself (and its various means). The shedding of blood per OT law and temple customs, did NOT atone for all sins, only unintentional ones, AND there are different examples of people having their sins 'atoned' for APART from bloodshed. All this focus on blood without proper spiritual understanding seems to be a 'carnal' fixation'. Even still...only the LIFE of God via His Spirit is our life, our salvation, our inspiration, or renewing, our resurrection-power. Spirit is Life! Furthermore, blood in and of itself has no power, besides one's faith in it to do anything (still its but figurative), so its symbolic meaning is what is important, and what it translates to within the soul, by inner transformation. One can shed all the blood he likes, slaughter a thousand animals, have dozens of demi-gods or avatars self-sacrifice themselves,....but what truly avails for a soul, is when they themselves sacrifice their own self, make their own 'at-one-ment' with God by total surrender to His will, and repent rightfully....this is WHAT AVAILS.
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marhig
Well-known member
Hello LA,
I shall get to your thread when I have the time, but be assured that you will be properly and responsibly addressed
I will direct you to this post here for the UB's teaching on this, some articles from Jewish sources and others about blood atonement, the Eucharist, the means of how one's obtains forgiveness, etc. - important to follow/read all the links within the posts as they relate to the greater context of our study here.
Questioning the necessity for blood-sacrifice (killing an innocent victim, animal or man) is certainly NOT an idea from the 'pit of hell', but one of spiritual intelligence and a higher way to purity and God-consciousness (via the route of 'repentance' which nullifies the need for the suffering of an innocent victim!), since blood-sacrifice appeals more to the carnally-minded, even though this gesture may symbolize something psychically or spiritually taking place within the soul, figuratively speaking as I shared earlier in my 2-part dissertation. (remember what the true sacrifices acceptable to God are? a humble heart and a contrite spirit, the surrender of the soul in utmost humility, the dying of the 'self' before God, so the spirit-man can rise in newness of life, resurrect from the ashes, etc.) Its about the soul re-turning to God, re-turning to Right DOING, as this is the ONLY way back to God and his laws,...REPENTANCE. - the soul-life of the sinner is returned back to God as the ego dies, the flesh DIES, is crucified as it were, and the soul is renewed and rises in the strength of the spirit, renewed to life, restored to righteousness.
Well, again,...thats what can be debated, the nature of 'atonement' itself (and its various means). The shedding of blood per OT law and temple customs, did NOT atone for all sins, only unintentional ones, AND there are different examples of people having their sins 'atoned' for APART from bloodshed. All this focus on blood without proper spiritual understanding seems to be a 'carnal' fixation'. Even still...only the LIFE of God via His Spirit is our life, our salvation, our inspiration, or renewing, our resurrection-power. Spirit is Life! Furthermore, blood in and of itself has no power, besides one's faith in it to do anything (still its but figurative), so its symbolic meaning is what is important, and what it translates to within the soul, by inner transformation. One can shed all the blood he likes, slaughter a thousand animals, have dozens of demi-gods or avatars self-sacrifice themselves,....but what truly avails for a soul, is when they themselves sacrifice their own self, make their own 'at-one-ment' with God by total surrender to His will, and repent rightfully....this is WHAT AVAILS.
What a great post!
: Thumb: I totally agree! 
Urantia vs bible?
Urantia book 186:5.2 “It was man and not God who planned and executed the death of Jesus on the cross. True, the Father refused to interfere with the march of human events on Urantia, but the Father in Paradise did not decree, demand, or require the death of his Son as it was carried out on earth.”
Acts 2:23-25”Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; “whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. “For David says concerning Him: 'I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken.
186:5.7 “Jesus is not about to die as a sacrifice for sin. He is not going to atone for the inborn moral guilt of the human race. Mankind has no such racial guilt before God. Guilt is purely a matter of personal sin and knowing, deliberate rebellion against the will of the Father and the administration of his Sons” (bold mine).
I choose God, himself through his word:
Urantia book 186:5.2 “It was man and not God who planned and executed the death of Jesus on the cross. True, the Father refused to interfere with the march of human events on Urantia, but the Father in Paradise did not decree, demand, or require the death of his Son as it was carried out on earth.”
Acts 2:23-25”Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; “whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. “For David says concerning Him: 'I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken.
186:5.7 “Jesus is not about to die as a sacrifice for sin. He is not going to atone for the inborn moral guilt of the human race. Mankind has no such racial guilt before God. Guilt is purely a matter of personal sin and knowing, deliberate rebellion against the will of the Father and the administration of his Sons” (bold mine).
I choose God, himself through his word:
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freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Recognizing VALUE......which is real worship.......
Recognizing VALUE......which is real worship.......
Its not really a matter of the UB vs. the Bible here, since there are other religious texts that do NOT support the efficacy of 'blood atonement', even verses in the Bible itself, although it uses the blood of Christ as 'symbolic' of a cleansing, redeeming life-giving sacrifice, yet there are various ways to 'interpret' it. I think you need to read all the commmentaries and the links in them that I've provided so far, instead of just cherry picking this or that just to CONTEST whatever is written. ALSO, there are various conceptual definitions or kinds of 'atonement' posited about the death of Jesus, so this isnt something written in stone,...its 'figurative', 'allegorical'.
You might also want to read any passage 'in context' like the whole part 5 of Paper 186 here.
Here is some more passage in the section you quote from -
186:5.4 The gospel of the good news that mortal man may, by faith, become spirit-conscious that he is a son of God, is not dependent on the death of Jesus. True, indeed, all this gospel of the kingdom has been tremendously illuminated by the Master's death, but even more so by his life.
~*~*~
186:5.8 Sin and rebellion have nothing to do with the fundamental bestowal plan of the Paradise Sons of God, albeit it does appear to us that the salvage plan is a provisional feature of the bestowal plan.
186:5.9 The salvation of God for the mortals of Urantia would have been just as effective and unerringly certain if Jesus had not been put to death by the cruel hands of ignorant mortals. If the Master had been favorably received by the mortals of earth and had departed from Urantia by the voluntary relinquishment of his life in the flesh, the fact of the love of God and the mercy of the Son—the fact of sonship with God—would have in no wise been affected. You mortals are the sons of God, and only one thing is required to make such a truth factual in your personal experience, and that is your spirit-born faith.
~*~*~
We might question if it was 'predetermined' or forcefully caused by God himself, the death of Jesus, but we could assume that in God's foreknowledge....all possibilities, probabilities and pontentials are known to God, - since God does know all that is knowable. The UB maintains that such a 'death' was not necessary to effect an atonement, since God's love is already fully existing and available to all his sons and daughters, and the life of Jesus, his revelation of God in the flesh, his manifesting the Father to us, was all that was essential, by the his bestowal(incarnation) of himself to us. - his gospel of the kingdom includes the revelation that God is our Father, and we are his children and this is enhanced and realized more by faith, the rebirth of the spirit thru the revelation. So,...no blood was needed by a God to merit or obtain for man, God's grace since such grace is ever available that he can access by faith.
186:5.7 “Jesus is not about to die as a sacrifice for sin. He is not going to atone for the inborn moral guilt of the human race. Mankind has no such racial guilt before God. Guilt is purely a matter of personal sin and knowing, deliberate rebellion against the will of the Father and the administration of his Sons” (bold mine).
Yes,...the narrative says Jesus was not just a sacrifice for sin, neither can the death of a person atone for the sins of another,...this is clearly taught in the OT, see Ezekiel for starters. Even blood of animals did not clean sins, they are only symbolic, there is no 'magic' in the blood, apart from some 'faith' of the worshipper or some spiritual transfer or psychic change within. It still holds as the prophets proclaim, and Jesus and his apostles taught,...."repent, for the kingdom of heaven is come near".
That might work in Sunday School,...but we've already addressed the belief and concept that 'God' wrote the bible personally as if guiding every single word of it,...a belief rather magnificient and mind-boggling, since the volume is by no means without errors, contradictions, variant readings and imperfections. - thats understandable for a collection of books written by different human authors amid varying agendas and copied translations, where some errors, glosses, ommissions, interpolations, redactions, etc. Hence my view that the book is inerrant, infallible is quite a 'stretch', and is unnecessary. This does not discount any inspiration, good or value in the Bible, of course not, it just recognizes its imperfection, limitations, human filtering. The UB recognizes and honors the truth, wisdom, good that has come down thru the Bible, and is still part of our religious heritage, as a particular 'dispensation'.
This also goes for the UB, mind you, since the celestial authors so assumed used human knowledge of the times (20th century) to expand/expound upon in many areas, so these are somewhat limited to those conceptual frames, and its admitted in the science/cosmology given, that some info. will undergo updating and modification, as new science and discoveries unfold. The authors also admit in some places not knowings certain things and postulating on some things, so the UB does not claim infallibility or innerrancy. It represents a certain dispensation of knowledge/revelation proportionate to what was allowed during its transmission. It came thru human mediums, filtered thru human instruments more or less, so...it may bear some colouring and imperfections thereby. Such things are to be logically expected, and then again, any religious book or 'revelation' is to be weighed by its own value, meaning, quality, character and CONTENT.
It would be a much better enterprise to take the good from every dispensation, and augment one's own religious philosophy and practice thereby, then to merely 'demonize' every thing that appears to be different, unorthodox or indifferent to one's own religion. Love integrates and includes all good synergistically, while fear divides, condemns and villifies. It might be for us to recognize love and wisdom at the fore, than merely a rigid or dogmatic theology that cramps one's spiritual freedom, rather than sets it free to value all truth, goodness and beauty wherever it is found.
Recognizing VALUE......which is real worship.......
Its not really a matter of the UB vs. the Bible here, since there are other religious texts that do NOT support the efficacy of 'blood atonement', even verses in the Bible itself, although it uses the blood of Christ as 'symbolic' of a cleansing, redeeming life-giving sacrifice, yet there are various ways to 'interpret' it. I think you need to read all the commmentaries and the links in them that I've provided so far, instead of just cherry picking this or that just to CONTEST whatever is written. ALSO, there are various conceptual definitions or kinds of 'atonement' posited about the death of Jesus, so this isnt something written in stone,...its 'figurative', 'allegorical'.
You might also want to read any passage 'in context' like the whole part 5 of Paper 186 here.
Here is some more passage in the section you quote from -
186:5.4 The gospel of the good news that mortal man may, by faith, become spirit-conscious that he is a son of God, is not dependent on the death of Jesus. True, indeed, all this gospel of the kingdom has been tremendously illuminated by the Master's death, but even more so by his life.
~*~*~
186:5.8 Sin and rebellion have nothing to do with the fundamental bestowal plan of the Paradise Sons of God, albeit it does appear to us that the salvage plan is a provisional feature of the bestowal plan.
186:5.9 The salvation of God for the mortals of Urantia would have been just as effective and unerringly certain if Jesus had not been put to death by the cruel hands of ignorant mortals. If the Master had been favorably received by the mortals of earth and had departed from Urantia by the voluntary relinquishment of his life in the flesh, the fact of the love of God and the mercy of the Son—the fact of sonship with God—would have in no wise been affected. You mortals are the sons of God, and only one thing is required to make such a truth factual in your personal experience, and that is your spirit-born faith.
~*~*~
We might question if it was 'predetermined' or forcefully caused by God himself, the death of Jesus, but we could assume that in God's foreknowledge....all possibilities, probabilities and pontentials are known to God, - since God does know all that is knowable. The UB maintains that such a 'death' was not necessary to effect an atonement, since God's love is already fully existing and available to all his sons and daughters, and the life of Jesus, his revelation of God in the flesh, his manifesting the Father to us, was all that was essential, by the his bestowal(incarnation) of himself to us. - his gospel of the kingdom includes the revelation that God is our Father, and we are his children and this is enhanced and realized more by faith, the rebirth of the spirit thru the revelation. So,...no blood was needed by a God to merit or obtain for man, God's grace since such grace is ever available that he can access by faith.
186:5.7 “Jesus is not about to die as a sacrifice for sin. He is not going to atone for the inborn moral guilt of the human race. Mankind has no such racial guilt before God. Guilt is purely a matter of personal sin and knowing, deliberate rebellion against the will of the Father and the administration of his Sons” (bold mine).
Yes,...the narrative says Jesus was not just a sacrifice for sin, neither can the death of a person atone for the sins of another,...this is clearly taught in the OT, see Ezekiel for starters. Even blood of animals did not clean sins, they are only symbolic, there is no 'magic' in the blood, apart from some 'faith' of the worshipper or some spiritual transfer or psychic change within. It still holds as the prophets proclaim, and Jesus and his apostles taught,...."repent, for the kingdom of heaven is come near".
I choose God, himself through his word:
That might work in Sunday School,...but we've already addressed the belief and concept that 'God' wrote the bible personally as if guiding every single word of it,...a belief rather magnificient and mind-boggling, since the volume is by no means without errors, contradictions, variant readings and imperfections. - thats understandable for a collection of books written by different human authors amid varying agendas and copied translations, where some errors, glosses, ommissions, interpolations, redactions, etc. Hence my view that the book is inerrant, infallible is quite a 'stretch', and is unnecessary. This does not discount any inspiration, good or value in the Bible, of course not, it just recognizes its imperfection, limitations, human filtering. The UB recognizes and honors the truth, wisdom, good that has come down thru the Bible, and is still part of our religious heritage, as a particular 'dispensation'.
This also goes for the UB, mind you, since the celestial authors so assumed used human knowledge of the times (20th century) to expand/expound upon in many areas, so these are somewhat limited to those conceptual frames, and its admitted in the science/cosmology given, that some info. will undergo updating and modification, as new science and discoveries unfold. The authors also admit in some places not knowings certain things and postulating on some things, so the UB does not claim infallibility or innerrancy. It represents a certain dispensation of knowledge/revelation proportionate to what was allowed during its transmission. It came thru human mediums, filtered thru human instruments more or less, so...it may bear some colouring and imperfections thereby. Such things are to be logically expected, and then again, any religious book or 'revelation' is to be weighed by its own value, meaning, quality, character and CONTENT.
It would be a much better enterprise to take the good from every dispensation, and augment one's own religious philosophy and practice thereby, then to merely 'demonize' every thing that appears to be different, unorthodox or indifferent to one's own religion. Love integrates and includes all good synergistically, while fear divides, condemns and villifies. It might be for us to recognize love and wisdom at the fore, than merely a rigid or dogmatic theology that cramps one's spiritual freedom, rather than sets it free to value all truth, goodness and beauty wherever it is found.
What a great post!
Then you will be in a lot of trouble trying to live a Holy life without giving due respect to the sacrifice of Christ to make it legal to eat of the tree of life.
Do not be taken in by all the long posts and human reasonings of Freelight.
The truth is so simple that even a child can understand it but not Freelight and UB.
It is not worth a hill of beans without the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and you have to lie to yourself and to the Lord that you are really accomplishing anything.
Sin will hold its vice like grip on you no matter what you do by way of self sacrifice without the shed blood of Jesus Christ and your believing its worth and preaching it.
LA
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