This is the UB thread however we do quote the Bible at times for comparison.
The Late Great Urantia Revelation
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This is the UB thread however we do quote the Bible at times for comparison.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Not all passages in the Bible are a 'Thus saith the Lord' specifically indicating that the LORD or 'God' is SPEAKING. In that case, you can dismiss the whole NT, and a good portion of the OT since they are NOT "quotes from God". Do any 'Thus saith the Lord' passages exist in the NT?
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
On my former observations and Robert's video above, do you have any comments? He does make a good case for there needing to be a religious movement including 'ritual' and 'symbolism' to carry the Jesusonian gospel forward. As I shared I don't know if this can be done within existing liberal progressive Christian denominations interblending the UB with the Bible as 2 accompanying textbooks to be used in religious services, or if a totally new formation or organization with accompanying chapters be formed as a Urantian Fellowship movement. If churches were to be set up, not sure what name would be settled on. Its an interesting thought, if such organization would assist in sharing the FER with all, and maintaining a steady momentum with such endeavors. In the meantime there are mostly online networks, UB study groups, conventions, etc. Thoughts?
I've thought about this quite a bit, ive even recommended a fellowship structure like the 12 step programs. But trying to bring UBer's together is like hearding cats!
The UB says that it won't be possible to reform Christianity, any new cult would need to be independent of the Christian institution.
87:7.4 The early Christian cult was the most effective, appealing, and enduring of any ritual ever conceived or devised, but much of its value has been destroyed in a scientific age by the destruction of so many of its original underlying tenets. The Christian cult has been devitalized by the loss of many fundamental ideas.
87:7.5 In the past, truth has grown rapidly and expanded freely when the cult has been elastic, the symbolism expansile. Abundant truth and an adjustable cult have favored rapidity of social progression. A meaningless cult vitiates religion when it attempts to supplant philosophy and to enslave reason; a genuine cult grows.
87:7.6 Regardless of the drawbacks and handicaps, every new revelation of truth has given rise to a new cult, and even the restatement of the religion of Jesus must develop a new and appropriate symbolism. Modern man must find some adequate symbolism for his new and expanding ideas, ideals, and loyalties. This enhanced symbol must arise out of religious living, spiritual experience. And this higher symbolism of a higher civilization must be predicated on the concept of the Fatherhood of God and be pregnant with the mighty ideal of the brotherhood of man.
87:7.7 The old cults were too egocentric; the new must be the outgrowth of applied love. The new cult must, like the old, foster sentiment, satisfy emotion, and promote loyalty; but it must do more: It must facilitate spiritual progress, enhance cosmic meanings, augment moral values, encourage social development, and stimulate a high type of personal religious living. The new cult must provide supreme goals of living which are both temporal and eternal—social and spiritual.
87:7.8 No cult can endure and contribute to the progress of social civilization and individual spiritual attainment unless it is based on the biologic, sociologic, and religious significance of the home. A surviving cult must symbolize that which is permanent in the presence of unceasing change; it must glorify that which unifies the stream of ever-changing social metamorphosis. It must recognize true meanings, exalt beautiful relations, and glorify the good values of real nobility.
87:7.9 But the great difficulty of finding a new and satisfying symbolism is because modern men, as a group, adhere to the scientific attitude, eschew superstition, and abhor ignorance, while as individuals they all crave mystery and venerate the unknown. No cult can survive unless it embodies some masterful mystery and conceals some worthful unattainable. Again, the new symbolism must not only be significant for the group but also meaningful to the individual. The forms of any serviceable symbolism must be those which the individual can carry out on his own initiative, and which he can also enjoy with his fellows. If the new cult could only be dynamic instead of static, it might really contribute something worth while to the progress of mankind, both temporal and spiritual.
87:7.5 In the past, truth has grown rapidly and expanded freely when the cult has been elastic, the symbolism expansile. Abundant truth and an adjustable cult have favored rapidity of social progression. A meaningless cult vitiates religion when it attempts to supplant philosophy and to enslave reason; a genuine cult grows.
87:7.6 Regardless of the drawbacks and handicaps, every new revelation of truth has given rise to a new cult, and even the restatement of the religion of Jesus must develop a new and appropriate symbolism. Modern man must find some adequate symbolism for his new and expanding ideas, ideals, and loyalties. This enhanced symbol must arise out of religious living, spiritual experience. And this higher symbolism of a higher civilization must be predicated on the concept of the Fatherhood of God and be pregnant with the mighty ideal of the brotherhood of man.
87:7.7 The old cults were too egocentric; the new must be the outgrowth of applied love. The new cult must, like the old, foster sentiment, satisfy emotion, and promote loyalty; but it must do more: It must facilitate spiritual progress, enhance cosmic meanings, augment moral values, encourage social development, and stimulate a high type of personal religious living. The new cult must provide supreme goals of living which are both temporal and eternal—social and spiritual.
87:7.8 No cult can endure and contribute to the progress of social civilization and individual spiritual attainment unless it is based on the biologic, sociologic, and religious significance of the home. A surviving cult must symbolize that which is permanent in the presence of unceasing change; it must glorify that which unifies the stream of ever-changing social metamorphosis. It must recognize true meanings, exalt beautiful relations, and glorify the good values of real nobility.
87:7.9 But the great difficulty of finding a new and satisfying symbolism is because modern men, as a group, adhere to the scientific attitude, eschew superstition, and abhor ignorance, while as individuals they all crave mystery and venerate the unknown. No cult can survive unless it embodies some masterful mystery and conceals some worthful unattainable. Again, the new symbolism must not only be significant for the group but also meaningful to the individual. The forms of any serviceable symbolism must be those which the individual can carry out on his own initiative, and which he can also enjoy with his fellows. If the new cult could only be dynamic instead of static, it might really contribute something worth while to the progress of mankind, both temporal and spiritual.
All passages in the 66 books are from the Lord but you're afraid to quote it cause it might be in error. You quote ub as errorless and have more confidence in celestials than God Himself.
Look to Jesus, not to self. He is greater than all of your failures.
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Lon
Well-known member
And? :idunno: Has no relevance to anything here.
:doh: Hate to tell you this....It IS the academic level I expect however.
lain::nono: This is ignorant (see above also). Take 120 years man is limited to by God and given in the O.T. Stands true today against scientific attempts. Nice try U-rant people 120 years ago. You weren't open to truth and you weren't all that bright to try and start a new false cult in your apartment. For him who has ears to hear....
And? :idunno: Has no relevance to anything here.
:doh: Hate to tell you this....It IS the academic level I expect however.
:nono: This is ignorant (see above also). Take 120 years man is limited to by God and given in the O.T. Stands true today against scientific attempts. Nice try U-rant people 120 years ago. You weren't open to truth and you weren't all that bright to try and start a new false cult in your apartment. For him who has ears to hear....
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If there wasn't truth in what the UB says, it wouldn't bother you so much.
We have so much more information now that would expand your mind and heart to a greater understanding.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Sincerity in research.....
Sincerity in research.....
Its your 'belief' that all 66 books are "from the Lord". But as I indicated,...not all passages, and not all books in that collection contain a "thus saith the Lord" in it. - in other words the words of God himself are not contained there, but the writings of men, their religious opinions, theories, speculations, narrative creations, etc.
I'm not afraid to quote the Bible, errors and all.
I quote the UB respectively here because this happens to a thread on the very subject. Hello? I have NEVER claimed the UB is 'errorless'. The UB itself does not claim inerrancy, infallibility or to be the finality of all revelation. To assume such about any religious book is presumptuous. God speaks to man in many ways, one of those ways is sending messengers to communicate messages to him (these include both ministering spirits and messengers in human form). All religious books (scriptures) are a written form of that, beyond what is being communicated thru living messengers today in various places around the planet. God uses many vessels. His symphony has many instruments, in fact all that exists or can be fashioned to serve him are in his grand concert.
The UB is just one of many other religious books that I find interesting, and since I've read a good deal of it...off and on over the years,...and its an awesome volume to inspire wonderful dialogue,.....I continue to perfect my 'craft', using the platform. Remember, this is the Religion section, and the UB definitely qualifies as a religious book of profound significance. Go here to read 5 epic papers on the subject of religion.
I do honor, respect and appreciate Jesus. My eclectic study and research on the person of Jesus allows me to appreciate a greater breadth of his legacy than most who have just kept to a more narrow presentation of him. Nowhere in my religious career or life-experience of 48 years will you find me disrespecting Jesus. You apparently are not aware of Part 4 of the UB (see online study index here), neither the primary most important message of the book, which is the gospel of Jesus, and the inspiration or call to adopt and live the religion of Jesus. Its all about Jesus. The very last paper is titled 'The Faith of Jesus'. So, not sure where you're getting that Jesus is being neglected here :idunno:
Sincerity in research.....
Its your 'belief' that all 66 books are "from the Lord". But as I indicated,...not all passages, and not all books in that collection contain a "thus saith the Lord" in it. - in other words the words of God himself are not contained there, but the writings of men, their religious opinions, theories, speculations, narrative creations, etc.
I'm not afraid to quote the Bible, errors and all.
I quote the UB respectively here because this happens to a thread on the very subject. Hello? I have NEVER claimed the UB is 'errorless'. The UB itself does not claim inerrancy, infallibility or to be the finality of all revelation. To assume such about any religious book is presumptuous. God speaks to man in many ways, one of those ways is sending messengers to communicate messages to him (these include both ministering spirits and messengers in human form). All religious books (scriptures) are a written form of that, beyond what is being communicated thru living messengers today in various places around the planet. God uses many vessels. His symphony has many instruments, in fact all that exists or can be fashioned to serve him are in his grand concert.
The UB is just one of many other religious books that I find interesting, and since I've read a good deal of it...off and on over the years,...and its an awesome volume to inspire wonderful dialogue,.....I continue to perfect my 'craft', using the platform. Remember, this is the Religion section, and the UB definitely qualifies as a religious book of profound significance. Go here to read 5 epic papers on the subject of religion.
I do honor, respect and appreciate Jesus. My eclectic study and research on the person of Jesus allows me to appreciate a greater breadth of his legacy than most who have just kept to a more narrow presentation of him. Nowhere in my religious career or life-experience of 48 years will you find me disrespecting Jesus. You apparently are not aware of Part 4 of the UB (see online study index here), neither the primary most important message of the book, which is the gospel of Jesus, and the inspiration or call to adopt and live the religion of Jesus. Its all about Jesus. The very last paper is titled 'The Faith of Jesus'. So, not sure where you're getting that Jesus is being neglected here :idunno:
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freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
intrusting souls to a new dispensation.......
intrusting souls to a new dispensation.......
'Intrust' is a word; its a less common spelling-variation of 'entrust', see here and here. There you will find historical references using the word as well. Its not a low-level academic word-choice. It means what it means. The UB uses the word 'intrusted' only 10 times here. In all cases it is nobly and appropriately used. This is just another one of your attempted 'pot-shots' at the UB, but an invalid one.
First Example:
intrusting souls to a new dispensation.......
:doh: Hate to tell you this....It IS the academic level I expect however.
'Intrust' is a word; its a less common spelling-variation of 'entrust', see here and here. There you will find historical references using the word as well. Its not a low-level academic word-choice. It means what it means. The UB uses the word 'intrusted' only 10 times here. In all cases it is nobly and appropriately used. This is just another one of your attempted 'pot-shots' at the UB, but an invalid one.
First Example:
More only comes from the truth straight from God. Ub is far less and the least. You put more and least over most and truths. You have more confidence in lies from demon celestials who made you think less is good. Your loss. We gain, you lose. When you go low, we go high.
You guys wouldn't even bother with this thread as much as you do if there wasn't truth being spoken here. You have soooooo much faith in Satan and his ability to write books, I cant imagine living in such a paranoid world. The religious people who tried to stop Jesus and previous prophets of truth had to contend with the same narrow-mindedness. I'm so grateful to be free from the idolatry of Biblical indoctrination.
We have a much beter explanation now about the events of the past that were recorded in the bible books.
How are you "Goofy" New Agers doing? Getting any respect lately? You guys are, something else.
I don't believe posters stop by here because there's a modicum of truth involved. They do it for its entertainment value and to mock you and Freelight. Those are the real reasons, Caino. It's like visiting a modern day "Freak Show."
Wikipedia has a brief description of the revelation, but just reading the book is an enormous undertaking so a quick explanation is difficult.
The book covers a discription of eternal Paradise and the God that inhabits it. The friendly, created universe with its 7 trillion inhabited worlds and the vast network of celestial beings that manage it, was made for Gods purpose. Michael, aka Jesus is a paradise created Son who created our world along with 10 million other evolutionary worlds under his jurisdiction.
The UB has the entire life and teachings of Jesus from birth to death as recorded by the celestial beings on earth at the time of the incarnation.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Attending to the task at hand......
Attending to the task at hand......
That's all you keep spouting. How much of the UB have you read to make an adequate and valid assessment of it? Have you read the first 12 papers at least? Index here (no exuse if you really want to discuss the actual material). If not, you really cant judge, except from ignorance and presumption. Seems a whole lot of that going on.
Truth is wherever you find it. That fact of life seems to evade you.
Can you specifically share any lies? Mostly just broad brush generalizations, projections, assumptions. Same ole spin.
Uhhhh,...who had made this into a contest? (with political overtones). Has it come down to something so petty as a theological duel or some kind of one-up-man-ship? The UB is not about such squabbles, but is one religious testament sharing much more important and universal questions and answers regarding man's origin, condition, potentials and divine destiny. I think it would be wise to attend to these matters and the principles and precepts expounded upon in the papers. If nothing to at least have an open and honest discussion of the topics covered, primarily 'theology'. That's the purpose of the thread. It would be advantageous if we attended to it, in a creative, constructive and positive manner.
Attending to the task at hand......
That's all you keep spouting. How much of the UB have you read to make an adequate and valid assessment of it? Have you read the first 12 papers at least? Index here (no exuse if you really want to discuss the actual material). If not, you really cant judge, except from ignorance and presumption. Seems a whole lot of that going on.
Truth is wherever you find it. That fact of life seems to evade you.
Can you specifically share any lies? Mostly just broad brush generalizations, projections, assumptions. Same ole spin.
Uhhhh,...who had made this into a contest? (with political overtones). Has it come down to something so petty as a theological duel or some kind of one-up-man-ship? The UB is not about such squabbles, but is one religious testament sharing much more important and universal questions and answers regarding man's origin, condition, potentials and divine destiny. I think it would be wise to attend to these matters and the principles and precepts expounded upon in the papers. If nothing to at least have an open and honest discussion of the topics covered, primarily 'theology'. That's the purpose of the thread. It would be advantageous if we attended to it, in a creative, constructive and positive manner.
At least you realize you're not welcome in the Exclusively Christian area of TOL. That's an area that Caino and yourself are barred from and rightfully so. You two are way out there when it comes to logic, reason, and common sense. I think you realize that. You just don't fit in on TOL. You're both considered to be a mere "Anomaly." Besides having one or two other "Cultists" you're in the extreme minority. I highly doubt either one of you would be welcome at most Christion forums.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Love is the Law.....
Love is the Law.....
Sadly they protest and accuse us of trying to 'recruit' or 'convert' them just because we recommend they read an adequate portion of the material before judging and have a good enough grasp to have a actual discussion. For instance I always recommend the basic first 10 - 12 papers at least...for a universal solid foundation of its theology, as it expands out further into the cosmology of the universe.
Foreword
1. The Universal Father
2. The Nature of God
3. The Attributes of God
4. God's Relation to the Universe
5. God's Relation to the Individual
6. The Eternal Son
7. Relation of the Eternal Son to the Universe
8. The Infinite Spirit
9. Relation of the Infinite Spirit to the Universe
10. The Paradise Trinity
11. The Eternal Isle of Paradise
12. The Universe of Universes
Sadly, some prefer marginalizing, degrading, mocking, ridiculing it or any particular points instead of actual constructive dialogue. The art of 'discussioin' seems to evade some, further enflamed by religious bigotry and censorship of new progressive ideas and concepts. I find the first 12 papers a good introduction to the UB theology, getting a grasp on the terminology and universal context, before branching out into other sections. I frankly don't care for some sections, but find other sections quite fascinating. Fortunately for those of us more liberal, there is no need or motivation for defending a dogmatic equation or finality of truth assumption. Truth is living, dynamic....and its reception or revelation varies per different conditions and locations in space and time. The idea of 'relative truth' and 'conceptual frames' is most wonderful, as shared in the papers, since they expand our intelligence to embrace a truly cosmic-perspective and far-reaching truth-grasp of the evolving Supreme BEING. Pretty awesome eh? So much petty bickering and attacks from the far right here go on to bypass so many wonderful insights, themes and gems shared in this particular volume. Much is assuming there is an 'enemy' to destroy or discredit their own religious book(s) whose doctrine of inerrancy has made it a veritable golden calf. It comes down to putting 'God' into a prescribed 'box',...I know the metaphor is old, but still fits.
Are you focusing on or reading any part of the UB at the current time?
Love is the Law.....
Sadly they protest and accuse us of trying to 'recruit' or 'convert' them just because we recommend they read an adequate portion of the material before judging and have a good enough grasp to have a actual discussion. For instance I always recommend the basic first 10 - 12 papers at least...for a universal solid foundation of its theology, as it expands out further into the cosmology of the universe.
Foreword
1. The Universal Father
2. The Nature of God
3. The Attributes of God
4. God's Relation to the Universe
5. God's Relation to the Individual
6. The Eternal Son
7. Relation of the Eternal Son to the Universe
8. The Infinite Spirit
9. Relation of the Infinite Spirit to the Universe
10. The Paradise Trinity
11. The Eternal Isle of Paradise
12. The Universe of Universes
Sadly, some prefer marginalizing, degrading, mocking, ridiculing it or any particular points instead of actual constructive dialogue. The art of 'discussioin' seems to evade some, further enflamed by religious bigotry and censorship of new progressive ideas and concepts. I find the first 12 papers a good introduction to the UB theology, getting a grasp on the terminology and universal context, before branching out into other sections. I frankly don't care for some sections, but find other sections quite fascinating. Fortunately for those of us more liberal, there is no need or motivation for defending a dogmatic equation or finality of truth assumption. Truth is living, dynamic....and its reception or revelation varies per different conditions and locations in space and time. The idea of 'relative truth' and 'conceptual frames' is most wonderful, as shared in the papers, since they expand our intelligence to embrace a truly cosmic-perspective and far-reaching truth-grasp of the evolving Supreme BEING. Pretty awesome eh? So much petty bickering and attacks from the far right here go on to bypass so many wonderful insights, themes and gems shared in this particular volume. Much is assuming there is an 'enemy' to destroy or discredit their own religious book(s) whose doctrine of inerrancy has made it a veritable golden calf. It comes down to putting 'God' into a prescribed 'box',...I know the metaphor is old, but still fits.
Are you focusing on or reading any part of the UB at the current time?
Why would anyone who accepts The Bible as the ONLY inspired written word of God, have a desire to read The Urantia Book, The Book of Mormon, The Watchtower, etc? Why is that such a surprise to you and Caino?
Zeke
Well-known member
You forgot Zionist shill who supports the phony Israel bs that also invented the dipsy dogma curtsy of Oxford press a well know secular company, the Jokes on you Strawman.
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