The Late Great Urantia Revelation

[freelight]

More schooling.......

More schooling.......

Zeke and whoever,

I've been researching God's Word for over 60 years and have no doubt about it. As a contrast, I have nothing but doubts about the flagship of the urantia UFO cult - the ub. In other words, I have no use for the ub.

Journey and GM have been corrected about their claim of the UB being a 'UFO Cult' here & here (see all links) - he and a few others continue to wave the ole 'ufo cult' flag, yet to no avail with those properly informed. It suits their own pompous religious truth claims to exclusivity, where all others must be marginalized or ridiculed. Far be it from them to engage in a creative dialogue about 'God', the cosmos and Jesus, without resorting to ad-hoc diatribes and insults, upon which worship of only one particular book and tradition becomes their 'idol' (granted whatever particular denomination you might fancy therein)....so there's a great variety anyhow

If you're fine with a book that you've chosen to believe as 'God's word',...you're welcome to continue with it....but it might dawn on you one day to find out that there is MORE. In other words to believe that just 66 books that were canonized into a "standard" by tradition, church councils and an institution (and that's what 'custom' you have as your guide) are all 'God' has to say about anything, is rather myopic, but you're welcome to put God in a box if you like. Note that I'm not busying myself downgrading the Bible, referring to it as 'dung', 'toilet paper', 'fecal matter', 'trash', 'garbage',.....just a few words that some have called the UB here and elsewhere. Neither the Bible or the UB is perfect, but I don't need to use vulgar language to admit it.

I hold a more liberal esoteric allegorical view in general, and freely research more skeptical, agnostic or non-theistic perspectives as well. In the greater over-view my survey and commentary on the UB is freely given from my interest and studies of its various parts (I find some parts more meaningful or insight than others, even parts that I have no interest in really), which is only one wonderful volume of info. that inspires and expands my own journey. There are other books, resources, teachers, dispensations of light on this wonderful planet,...no one 'person' or 'party' has a monopoly on 'truth'.

Life is a journey of consciousness, its ever evolving, progressing, within the omnipresence of a DEITY that is INFINITE.

Therefore, plunging into the depths of 'God' is an adventure into infinity The UB happens to provide a cosmic template and context where a finite soul can ponder and explore the primal reality from whence all things spring. The Universal Father is the First Source and Center. Its one resource among many, since 'Spirit' is omnipresent. By definition 'God' is the One ABSOLUTE. - all else is 'relative'.

You either hear, see or understand, having some inkling to intuit or resonate with something being shared or you don't, yet all are at different levels of insight, knowledge or experience,..so anything can change in perception or knowing at any moment in any shift of space or time. That's kinda how the universe works

In-joy!

 

[journey]

Freelight,

1 - You haven't corrected anyone because you don't have the authority and you aren't a recognized source for truth.

2 - Your judgment about materials you explore is very poor. Your brain is much like a computer, so garbage in equals garbage out. The ub and the listing in your signature are garbage that someone with common sense wouldn't spend any time with. You like your garbage, but we don't.

3 - What is it that makes you think that anyone here is interested in the ub, other than to make fun of it?

4 - Hint: the urantia UFO cult and its materials are junk that nobody wants. This is the bottom line. You can't even give it away.

 

[Caino]

Science Content of The Urantia Book



Editors: Richard Bain, Ken Glasziou, Matt Neibaur, & Frank Wright

This text has been prepared for use by bona fide students of The Urantia Book, may not be sold, and is restricted to use for study and research purposes only. Quotations from The Urantia Book are indicated in the text.
It is available in booklet form from the editors.

-----------------------------------

Poised to counteract any reaction of skepticism regarding the revelatory authority of The Urantia Book there is the extraordinarily detailed knowledge of all manner of topics displayed by it, authors at a time when computers and databases were quite unknown, plus the sheer beauty of concept, clarity of presentation, and the depth and scope of its statements in the fields of religion, morals, and ethics. Moreover, there are the many statements of a scientific nature which have since been vindicated by modern scientific research and which, in the absence of prior knowledge, would have been sheer guesswork at the time they were made.

1. ON VALIDATION

In attempting to fathom why this great and mysterious book has been written in such a peculiar manner, perhaps it would be enlightening to examine some of its own statements on validity. The premier thing to notice is the emphasis on the role of human experience in validating belief. On page 24, we read:

"The existence of God can never be proved by scientific experiment or by the pure reason of logical deduction. God can be realized only in the realms of human experience."
In the next paragraph we are told:
"Those who know God have experienced the fact of his presence; such God-knowing mortals hold in their personal experience the only positive proof of the existence of the living God which one human being can offer to another."(1:2.4)

Further emphasizing the role of human experience, on pages 1105-1106 we are told:

"The fact of religion consists wholly in the religious experience of rational and average human beings. And this is the only sense in which religion can ever be regarded as scientific or even psychological. The proof that revelation is revelation is the same fact of human experience; the fact that revelation does synthesize the apparently divergent sciences of nature and the theology of religion into a consistent and logical universe philosophy, thus creating a harmony of mind and satisfaction of spirit which answers in human experience those questionings of the mortal mind which crave to know how the infinite works out his will and plans in matter, with minds, and on spirit."(101:2.1)

On page 1106, the significance of experience becomes cardinal:

"There are two basic reasons for believing in a God who fosters human survival:1.Human experience, personal assurance, the somehow registered hope and trust initiated by the indwelling Thought Adjuster.
2.The revelation of truth, whether by direct personal ministry of the Spirit of Truth, by the world bestowal of divine Sons, or through revelations of the written word." (101:2.4)

And two paragraphs beyond:

"Reason is the proof of science, faith the proof of religion, logic the proof of philosophy, but revelation is validated only by human experience."

The nature of proof is a topic that has received much attention in recent times, particularly from those skilled in the arts of mathematics and logic. However, conclusions emanating from this research have been quite discouraging in relation to our ability to prove, beyond doubt, even the basics tenets Of mathematics and science. The Urantia Papers (received in the mid-1930's) comment: "in the mortal state, nothing can be absolutely proved; both science and religion are predicated on assumptions." And in the following paragraph it says:

"All divisions of human thought are predicated on certain assumptions which are accepted, though unproved, by the constitutive reality sensitivity of the mind endowment of man." (page 1139,103:7.11)

 

[TulipBee]

Journey and GM have been corrected about their claim of the UB being a 'UFO Cult' here & here (see all links) - he and a few others continue to wave the ole 'ufo cult' flag, yet to no avail with those properly informed. It suits their own pompous religious truth claims to exclusivity, where all others must be marginalized or ridiculed. Far be it from them to engage in a creative dialogue about 'God', the cosmos and Jesus, without resorting to ad-hoc diatribes and insults, upon which worship of a only one particular book and tradition becomes their 'idol' (granted whatever particular denomination you might fancy therein)....so there's a great variety anyhow

If you're fine with a book that you've chosen to believe as 'God's word',...you're welcome to continue with it....but it might dawn on you one day to find out that there is MORE. In other words to believe that just 66 books that were canonized into a "standard" by tradition, church councils and an institution (and that's what 'custom' you have as your guide) are all 'God' has to say about anything, is rather myopic, but you're welcome to put God in a box if you like. Note that I'm not busying myself downgrading the Bible, referring to it as 'dung', 'toilet paper', 'fecal matter', 'trash', 'garbage',.....just a few words that some have called the UB here and elsewhere. Neither the Bible or the UB is perfect, but I don't need to use vulgar language to admit it.

I hold a more liberal esoteric allegorical view in general, and freely research more skeptical, agnostic or non-theistic perspectives as well. In the greater over-view my survey and commentary on the UB is freely given from my interest and studies of its various parts (I find some parts more meaningful or insight than others, even parts that I have no interest in really), which is only one wonderful volume of info. that inspires and expands my own journey. There are other books, resources, teachers, dispensations of light on this wonderful planet,...no one 'person' or 'party' has a monopoly on 'truth'.

Life is a journey of consciousness, its ever evolving, progressing, within the omnipresence of a DEITY that is INFINITE.

Therefore, plunging into the depths of 'God' is an adventure into infinity The UB happens to provide a cosmic template and context where a finite soul can ponder and explore the primal reality from whence all things spring. The Universal Father is the First Source and Center. Its one resource among many, since 'Spirit' is omnipresent. By definition 'God' is the One ABSOLUTE. - all else is 'relative'.

You either hear, see or understand, having some inkling to intuit or resonate with something being shared or you don't, yet all are at different levels of insight, knowledge or experience,..so anything can change in perception or knowing at any moment in any shift of space or time. That's kinda how the universe works

In-joy!

you downgraded the Bible and said so yourself and now you say you didn't. now you do, now you don't back to now you do but really dont while you do. like the magic movie, now you see me and now you don't. maybe your magic will work on most here but Im keeping an eye on you. you slip a lot.

 

[Caino]

PARTICLE PHYSICS

The Urantia Papers, received in 1934, described a weak force carrier, release of tiny neutral particles (antineutrinos) in radioactive beta decay, release of more tiny neutral particles during gravitational collapse of massive stairs (neutrinos), and the existence of a then unknown strong nuclear force. The existence of the weak force carrier was demonstrated in 1983, the existence of neutrinos was confirmed in 1956, the existence of neutron stars whose formation gives rise to the release of vast quantities of neutrinos was confirmed by X-ray telescope in 1967, and the theory of the strong nuclear force involving quarks and gluons became accepted theory during the late 1970's.
REFERENCES: The Urantia Book, p. 479; "Two Remarkable Predictions", K.T. Glasziou, 6-0-6 Newsletter, vol 9 (no.3),1988; Brotherhood of Man Library, file GLASZ07.DOC,1988.

Pangea animationCONTINENTAL DRIFT

The Urantia Book states unequivocally that all land on earth was joined together in one huge continent that commenced to break up 750 million years ago, and was followed by a long period of continental drifting during which land bridges were repeatedly formed and broken. The story of the movements of the continents and concomitant effects upon developing life is described in considerable detail in the book.

The concept of continental drift was rejected by most geologists and geophysicists until examination of the ocean floor at the mid-Atlantic Ridge during the late 1950's and early 1960's revealed that the Earth's crust is being melted and forced upwards resulting in ocean floor spreading, hence continental drift. However the theory of continental drift did not become generally accepted in North America until the mid 1960's (see H.E. LeGrand ref.).

Until recently, the date of commencement of break up of the single continent was placed at about 200 million years ago. Currently this date has been revised and pushed back to between about 600 and 800 million years ago as stated in The Urantia Book.
REFERENCES: The Urantia Book, page 663; K.T. Glasziou, "Continental Drift", 6-0-6 Newsletter, Vol 9 (#4) 1988; Scientific American (1984) 250(2),4 1; Scientific American,(l987), 256(4),84; H.E. Le Grand 1988. "Drifting Continents and Shifting Theories" (Cambridge University Press); Brotherhood of Man Library, 1988.

CONTINENTAL DRIFT AND LAND ELEVATION

The Urantia Book account of the geological history of our planet includes many cycles of land elevation and submergence with a average periodicity of approximately 25 million years. A possible physical mechanism by which this could occur has recently been described.
REFERENCE: "The Supercontinent Cycle," R.D. Nance et al. Scientific American 259(l) 44-51 (1988)

MOUNTAIN BUILDING

The Urantia Book associates mountain building on the west coast of North and South America with continental drift. Today, nobody doubts that mountain building occurs at the edge of drifting continents, concomitantly with the subduction of the oceanic crust. However virtually nobody believed in continental drift at the time of writing (or publication) of The Urantia Book.
REFERENCE: The Urantia Book, page 689

STABLE ELEMENTS

The Urantia Book tells us that atoms with more than 100 orbital electrons are unstable, and quickly decay. Element 101 (Mendelium) was discovered in the products of nuclear fission in 1952, and was found to have a half-life of about 30 minutes. All elements above 100 have since been found to be highly unstable. There was no adequate theoretical basis to make such a prediction at the time of receipt of the Urantia Papers. (note: the longest lived isotope of Mendelium has a half-life of 1.5 hrs)
REFERENCE: The Urantia Book, page 478

PLANETARY ATMOSPHERES

The Urantia Book tells us that Venus has a dense atmosphere and that the atmosphere of Mars is of low density. The Russian Venera 7 space probe measured the atmospheric pressure of Venus in 1970 at about 90 times the Earth's atmosphere, and the U.S. Mariner probe gave the atmosphere of Mars as 1/100 of the Earths' atmosphere. There was no way to predict or to measure atmospheric pressure on these planets before the advent of the space probes.
REFERENCE: The Urantia Book, page 561

MOTIONS OF THE MOON

The Urantia Book tells us that the moon is presently moving away from the Earth. This has been confirmed by highly accurate radar measurements. The rate of movement is about 1 inch per year.
REFERENCES: The Urantia Book, page 657; Scientific American 249 (6), 71

TYCHO BRAHE'S NOVA OF 1572

The explosion of a supernova in 1572 was a brilliant spectacle visible in broad daylight, and became known as Tycho Brahe's nova. The Urantia Book states that this nova was due to the explosion of a double star. The first serious theoretical description of novas and supernovas was presented in the early 1950's by Hoyle and associates. This theory is still being modified and expanded. Nova and supernova occur due to the explosion of both single and double stars. The remnant of Tycho Brahe's supernova was rediscovered in 1952 by use of the recently invented radio telescope, but could not be shown to' be due to a double star explosion until it was extensively mapped by the orbiting Einstein X-ray observatory in 1967.
REFERENCES: The Urantia Book, page 458; Urantia Brotherhood Bulletin, "Nova of 1572 Explained."

CRAB NEBULA

The Urantia Book tells us that there is a lone star at the center of the Crab nebula which is the mother sphere, and had its origin in a nova explosion occurring 900 years ago. The existence of a mother sphere for this nebula was demonstrated in 1967 with the detection of a pulsar now known to be a neutron star.
REFERENCES: The Urantia Book, page 464; Kaufmann, "The Universe"


More to come

 

[patrick jane]

Now I believe the urantia papers completely

 

[Caino]

Great morning reading:


130:1.5 Jesus' last visit with Gadiah had to do with a discussion of good and evil. This young Philistine was much troubled by a feeling of injustice because of the presence of evil in the world alongside the good. He said:“How can God, if he is infinitely good, permit us to suffer the sorrows of evil; after all, who creates evil?” It was still believed by many in those days that God creates both good and evil, but Jesus never taught such error. In answering this question, Jesus said: “My brother, God is love; therefore he must be good, and his goodness is so great and real that it cannot contain the small and unreal things of evil. God is so positively good that there is absolutely no place in him for negative evil. Evil is the immature choosing and the unthinking misstep of those who are resistant to goodness, rejectful of beauty, and disloyal to truth. Evil is only the misadaptation of immaturity or the disruptive and distorting influence of ignorance. Evil is the inevitable darkness which follows upon the heels of the unwise rejection of light. Evil is that which is dark and untrue, and which, when consciously embraced and willfully endorsed, becomes sin.

130:1.6 “Your Father in heaven, by endowing you with the power to choose between truth and error, created the potential negative of the positive way of light and life; but such errors of evil are really nonexistent until such a time as an intelligent creature wills their existence by mischoosing the way of life. And then are such evils later exalted into sin by the knowing and deliberate choice of such a willful and rebellious creature. This is why our Father in heaven permits the good and the evil to go along together until the end of life, just as nature allows the wheat and the tares to grow side by side until the harvest.” Gadiah was fully satisfied with Jesus' answer to his question after their subsequent discussion had made clear to his mind the real meaning of these momentous statements.

 

[TulipBee]

Great morning reading:


130:1.5 Jesus' last visit with Gadiah had to do with a discussion of good and evil. This young Philistine was much troubled by a feeling of injustice because of the presence of evil in the world alongside the good. He said:“How can God, if he is infinitely good, permit us to suffer the sorrows of evil; after all, who creates evil?” It was still believed by many in those days that God creates both good and evil, but Jesus never taught such error. In answering this question, Jesus said: “My brother, God is love; therefore he must be good, and his goodness is so great and real that it cannot contain the small and unreal things of evil. God is so positively good that there is absolutely no place in him for negative evil. Evil is the immature choosing and the unthinking misstep of those who are resistant to goodness, rejectful of beauty, and disloyal to truth. Evil is only the misadaptation of immaturity or the disruptive and distorting influence of ignorance. Evil is the inevitable darkness which follows upon the heels of the unwise rejection of light. Evil is that which is dark and untrue, and which, when consciously embraced and willfully endorsed, becomes sin.

130:1.6 “Your Father in heaven, by endowing you with the power to choose between truth and error, created the potential negative of the positive way of light and life; but such errors of evil are really nonexistent until such a time as an intelligent creature wills their existence by mischoosing the way of life. And then are such evils later exalted into sin by the knowing and deliberate choice of such a willful and rebellious creature. This is why our Father in heaven permits the good and the evil to go along together until the end of life, just as nature allows the wheat and the tares to grow side by side until the harvest.” Gadiah was fully satisfied with Jesus' answer to his question after their subsequent discussion had made clear to his mind the real meaning of these momentous statements.

where can I find gadiah in the bible?

 

[freelight]

No downgrading, but an "upgrade" recommended......

No downgrading, but an "upgrade" recommended......

you downgraded the Bible and said so yourself and now you say you didn't. now you do, now you don't back to now you do but really dont while you do. like the magic movie, now you see me and now you don't. maybe your magic will work on most here but Im keeping an eye on you. you slip a lot.

Hi TB,

My former post stands

I recognize the Bible for what it actually is, - see - What is the Bible? - its a collection of stories, allegories, myths, some historical timepieces, but mostly the creation of the religious communities or authors that penned each book, at some particular time or place within a particular cultura-context reflecting the beliefs, ideas, concepts of that person or community. Therefore each book or collection of books, serves the people who wrote them, obviously. This isn't a 'downgrade' but an observation based on facts of the human situation and agendas behind anything written. Some books may be more or less inspired (whether historical, mythical or a combination thereof), but thats another matter.

On a reality note:

I am that I am. I am consciousness enjoying life within the template of an individual personality at this time.....so, whatever views, opinions, belief or knowledge that I have at any point in time is conditional and subject to change/modification...as long as there is anything to learn at any point in time. Thats the relative truth of the situation at this very moment. This is the case for all points of consciousness looking out thru an individual human template.

This 'openness' keeps one adaptive to truth, enabling one to progressively evolve, or to be open to a 'knowing' if the Spirit of truth can give one a real knowing of anything at any time. The timeless reality of one's being, or that actual fragment of divinity within one's mind which is the 'thought adjuster', is of the very essence of divine reality, or 'Deity'. This is the real 'Self', upon which a human personality may join or fuse with, to become an actual immortal soul,...but this we may have covered earlier here, as far as the UB teaching on 'soul-fusion' goes

In any case,....the matter of truth is far beyond any particular book per se, but includes the totality of reality. I suggest including more into your re-search than just the Bible, since you cant put 'God' in a box, neither can you prove that 'God' no longer allows new dispensations of revelation to come forth since the Bible was 'put together'. 'God' is INFINITE. - that original eternal Spirit-presence and Consciousness cannot be limited to one book. Mind you, the UB does not claim this either, but its new presentation of God and the ministry of Jesus came as a new dispensation to give a better more perfect theology as it were. Of course any genuine truth seeker is free to investigate this for themselves, and make up their own minds based on the material presented.

 

[TulipBee]

Hi TB,

My former post stands

I recognize the Bible for what it actually is, - see - What is the Bible? - its a collection of stories, allegories, myths, some historical timepieces, but mostly the creation of the religious communities or authors that penned each book, at some particular time or place within a particular cultura-context reflecting the beliefs, ideas, concepts of that person or community. Therefore each book or collection of books, serves the people who wrote them, obviously. This isn't a 'downgrade' but an observation based on facts of the human situation and agendas behind anything written. Some books may be more or less inspired (whether historical, mythical or a combination thereof), but thats another matter.

On a reality note:

I am that I am. I am consciousness enjoying life within the template of an individual personality at this time.....so, whatever views, opinions, belief or knowledge that I have at any point in time is conditional and subject to change/modification...as long as there is anything to learn at any point in time. Thats the relative truth of the situation at this very moment. This is the case for all points of consciousness looking out thru an individual human template.

This 'openness' keeps one adaptive to truth, enabling one to progressively evolve, or to be open to a 'knowing' if the Spirit of truth can give one a real knowing of anything at any time. The timeless reality of one's being, or that actual fragment of divinity within one's mind which is the 'thought adjuster', is of the very essence of divine reality, or 'Deity'. This is the real 'Self', upon which a human personality may join or fuse with, to become an actual immortal soul,...but this we may have covered earlier here, as far as the UB teaching on 'soul-fusion' goes

In any case,....the matter of truth is far beyond any particular book per se, but includes the totality of reality. I suggest including more into your re-search than just the Bible, since you cant put 'God' in a box, neither can you prove that 'God' no longer allows new dispensations of revelation to come forth since the Bible was 'put together'. 'God' is INFINITE. - that original eternal Spirit-presence and Consciousness cannot be limited to one book. Mind you, the UB does not claim this either, but its new presentation of God and the ministry of Jesus came as a new dispensation to give a better more perfect theology as it were. Of course any genuine truth seeker is free to investigate this for themselves, and make up their own minds based on the material presented.

oh! its not in it. ok, thanks

 

[freelight]

oh! its not in it. ok, thanks

Well, your 'one-liners' are certainly producing wonderful commentaries for at least some willing to research, expand and explore the INFINITE.


N-joy!

 

[TulipBee]

Well, your 'one-liners' are certainly producing wonderful commentaries for at least some willing to research, expand and explore the INFINITE.


N-joy!

you bet cause we dont know if jesus had a friend that name at all. made up

 

[freelight]

oh! its not in it. ok, thanks

Another take,...concerning 'Gadiah',...its not in the Bible but only found in the UB unless there are historical records elsewhere to confirm the existence of a 'Gadiah'. But might you consider that not all of the aquaintances of Jesus are listed or mentioned in the gospel records? Jesus may have been aquainted with hundreds of people, and it so stands by John's own testimony, that if all that Jesus said and did were written, the world could not contain it! much less a small library perhaps,...but who knows. If this is the case,...the gospels probably DO NOT contain everything that Jesus did and said, but enough to satisfy the writers of the books that were preserved. Other records of Jesus that did not make it into the 'official canon' do exist, and some books are no longer extant.

One could do a study of persons mentioned uniquely in the UB to see if any other historical records can corroborate their existence,.....this can be done just as well with persons mentioned in the Bible, if we wanna use a fair playing field to include all contenders Also Jesus taught much in parables,....so some persons in those stories may or may not be actual historical personalities,.....they could be just 'actors' employed to convey the message of the parable. So, it looks like Paul was right after all in saying "the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life"....its the meanings and values that these stories convey and how one receives them that counts

 

[freelight]

Names in the Jesus records..............

Names in the Jesus records..............

you bet cause we dont know if jesus had a friend that name at all. made up

Continuing on your assumption,....lets us consider again, that Jesus probably had friends that are not mentioned in the gospel records, that he made in his at least 30 year sojourn here as a human being. It this reasonable to assume?

On a wider arch, if you can read to any considerable length without a brain freeze lol,...here is a good article on peculiar words used in the UB, the 'etymology' of various names, titles, phrases, etc. - all language is symbolic, having relative/contextual meanings and values, so if you're interested in 'etymology',...dive in

Be careful of 'grid-lock'

 

[Caino]

Comparing heaven of the Bible and the Urantia revelation.

 

[TulipBee]

Continuing on your assumption,....lets us consider again, that Jesus probably had friends that are not mentioned in the gospel records, that he made in his at least 30 year sojourn here as a human being. It this reasonable to assume?

On a wider arch, if you can read to any considerable length without a brain freeze lol,...here is a good article on peculiar words used in the UB, the 'etymology' of various names, titles, phrases, etc. - all language is symbolic, having relative/contextual meanings and values, so if you're interested in 'etymology',...dive in

Be careful of 'grid-lock'

the gridlock is we're not sure if that person even existed. id rather be sure so I can correct you but you beleive in anything. cant help you there

 

[freelight]

the gridlock is we're not sure if that person even existed. id rather be sure so I can correct you but you beleive in anything. cant help you there

The 'grid-lock' could be your belief that the gospels contain all that Jesus ever said or did (John challenges that notion), or that the Bible is infallible/inerrant/perfect, etc. Gadiah is a character in the story of Jesus told in this particular narrative. There are some characters and names mentioned in the Bible that one could question if they ever really existed. Tradition, legend, allegory opens many possibilities.

I find your 'assumption' that I believe 'anything' somewhat comical - characters in a story vary, its what is being 'related' between the characters that is important, no matter what evidence you find that corroborates if this person made an actual historical appearance, or is fictional (in some cases it is beyond knowing). - as in our recent thread about a 'historical' Jesus existing, a few scholars question his historicity and chalk him up to being a myth or a divine play-narrative that was merely historicized into a human Jesus existing (the 'mythicist' view). I've been researching that perspective.

 

[patrick jane]

Hillary would be an awful and terrible president

 

[TulipBee]

The 'grid-lock' could be your belief that the gospels contain all that Jesus ever said or did (John challenges that notion), or that the Bible is infallible/inerrant/perfect, etc. Gadiah is a character in the story of Jesus told in this particular narrative. There are some characters and names mentioned in the Bible that one could question if they ever really existed. Tradition, legend, allegory opens many possibilities.

I find your 'assumption' that I believe 'anything' somewhat comical - characters in a story vary, its what is being 'related' between the characters that is important, no matter what evidence you find that corroborates if this person made an actual historical appearance, or is fictional (in some cases it is beyond knowing). - as in our recent thread about a 'historical' Jesus existing, a few scholars question his historicity and chalk him up to being a myth or a divine play-narrative that was merely historicized into a human Jesus existing (the 'mythicist' view). I've been researching that perspective.

bible is all I have. rather be sure than fall for anything like you do

 

[freelight]

bible is all I have. rather be sure than fall for anything like you do

That's a choice you're limiting yourself to. Its not all that is available.