Thanks for the link and for clarifying....
The Late Great Urantia Revelation
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Thanks for the link and for clarifying....
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
You're welcome RBBI
Like I said,...the first 5 papers even,...but I recommend a reading of the first 12 to get a fundamental cosmological-overview of the papers theology. I'm not promoting it either as a die-hard UB fundamentalist, since i'm of the Eclectic school being more of a universalist/theosophist, where we recognize the universal religious truths, laws and principles in all religious traditions, since a golden thread usually runs thru most divinely inspired schools, granted human imperfections, for 'God' alone is the One Universal Reality.
Anyways,....the UB has some awesome and interesting concepts, which could only enhance, expand or challenge one's religious views and concepts,.....a way to explore and expand consciousness. That's all I'm ever about :surf:
Remember the OP (opening post) too, and you can use the thread search feature in the upper right section for any key subjects of interest.
You're welcome RBBI
Like I said,...the first 5 papers even,...but I recommend a reading of the first 12 to get a fundamental cosmological-overview of the papers theology. I'm not promoting it either as a die-hard UB fundamentalist, since i'm of the Eclectic school being more of a universalist/theosophist, where we recognize the universal religious truths, laws and principles in all religious traditions, since a golden thread usually runs thru most divinely inspired schools, granted human imperfections, for 'God' alone is the One Universal Reality.
Anyways,....the UB has some awesome and interesting concepts, which could only enhance, expand or challenge one's religious views and concepts,.....a way to explore and expand consciousness. That's all I'm ever about :surf:
Remember the OP (opening post) too, and you can use the thread search feature in the upper right section for any key subjects of interest.
Believe it or not I do understand and I even agree to a point. The point being whether or not one is rooted and grounded in Him, AND led of Him to delve into those things. The reason being, "mud" sticks to mud, but it doesn't stick to water.
The only reason HE sends us in to study those things "outside the city", is so we can then "translate" whatever CORRUPTED truths are contained there in the kingdom of darkness (carnal minds) and back into it's true origin (the mind of Christ), to set things in order.
I am well aware of He has hidden things in the darkness, His secret pavilions. Peace
It is sad to think that people are so conflicted about the character of God. Pharaoh changed his mind, while primitive minds may have concluded that God invaded and changed Pharohs will, just men of common sense know better now. As the thinking of the Hebrews evolved they changed in their concepts of deity.
"Primitive minds, eh?" Even the above average human of today couldn't duplicate some of the things those primitive minds conceived of, and built, thousands of years ago.
Primitive doesn't mean stupid, at least in the case of the Pharohs and their architects. But superstitious fear? That's a different story. Even today there are many people who think the Hebrews flood story really happened.
Even a lot of "fearful, superstitious" scientists, to be exact. lol....
People born into religions with scriptures purported to have been written by God are shamed into bending reality to fit the scripture.
But the UB discloses plausible explanations for why and how many of the events depicted in the Bible actually had a basis in true facts from ancient stories, retold over and over for generations, stories that take on mythical proportions.
example:
Before the flood story was woven into the Genesis account during the Babylonian exile it must have had some basis for acceptance among the common Israelite. Well, there really was a Noah that the presumably well known legend was based on.
THE FLOODS IN MESOPOTAMIA
78:7.1 The river dwellers were accustomed to rivers overflowing their banks at certain seasons; these periodic floods were annual events in their lives. But new perils threatened the valley of Mesopotamia as a result of progressive geologic changes to the north.
78:7.2 For thousands of years after the submergence of the first Eden the mountains about the eastern coast of the Mediterranean and those to the northwest and northeast of Mesopotamia continued to rise. This elevation of the highlands was greatly accelerated about 5000 B.C., and this, together with greatly increased snowfall on the northern mountains, caused unprecedented floods each spring throughout the Euphrates valley. These spring floods grew increasingly worse so that eventually the inhabitants of the river regions were driven to the eastern highlands. For almost a thousand years scores of cities were practically deserted because of these extensive deluges.
78:7.3 Almost five thousand years later, as the Hebrew priests in Babylonian captivity sought to trace the Jewish people back to Adam, they found great difficulty in piecing the story together; and it occurred to one of them to abandon the effort, to let the whole world drown in its wickedness at the time of Noah's flood, and thus to be in a better position to trace Abraham right back to one of the three surviving sons of Noah.
78:7.4 The traditions of a time when water covered the whole of the earth's surface are universal. Many races harbor the story of a world-wide flood some time during past ages. The Biblical story of Noah, the ark, and the flood is an invention of the Hebrew priesthood during the Babylonian captivity. There has never been a universal flood since life was established on Urantia. The only time the surface of the earth was completely covered by water was during those Archeozoic ages before the land had begun to appear.
78:7.5 But Noah really lived; he was a wine maker of Aram, a river settlement near Erech. He kept a written record of the days of the river's rise from year to year. He brought much ridicule upon himself by going up and down the river valley advocating that all houses be built of wood, boat fashion, and that the family animals be put on board each night as the flood season approached. He would go to the neighboring river settlements every year and warn them that in so many days the floods would come. Finally a year came in which the annual floods were greatly augmented by unusually heavy rainfall so that the sudden rise of the waters wiped out the entire village; only Noah and his immediate family were saved in their houseboat.
78:7.6 These floods completed the disruption of Andite civilization. With the ending of this period of deluge, the second garden was no more. Only in the south and among the Sumerians did any trace of the former glory remain.
78:7.7 The remnants of this, one of the oldest civilizations, are to be found in these regions of Mesopotamia and to the northeast and northwest. But still older vestiges of the days of Dalamatia exist under the waters of the Persian Gulf, and the first Eden lies submerged under the eastern end of the Mediterranean Sea." UB 1955
"...Consider the Greeks, who have a science without religion, while the Jews have a religion without science. And when men become thus misled into accepting a narrow and confused disintegration of truth, their only hope of salvation is to become truth-co-ordinated--converted...."
True religion is faith based, so I'll take religion any day over science, although I have nothing against science, just the Greek mindset that corrupts religion.
Interesting to me that the word science comes from a latin word meaning, "to know", the same meaning as for the word, "demon", ie. knowing ones.
The beastly carnal mind and the hounds of hell have a lot in common it seems. :chuckle:
Interesting to me that the word science comes from a latin word meaning, "to know", the same meaning as for the word, "demon", ie. knowing ones.
The beastly carnal mind and the hounds of hell have a lot in common it seems. :chuckle:
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
'Science' can also apply to religious or spiritual knowledge,....those of us being inclined to such 'knowing' as being 'gnostics'
- true knowledge would have no 'demonic' element to it necessarily, for knowledge is knowledge, no matter who is possessing it.'Science' can also apply to religious or spiritual knowledge,....those of us being inclined to such 'knowing' as being 'gnostics'
Not entirely. The knowledge that is below is earthy, sensual, the knowledge from above is not. That type of knowledge cannot be known through the beastly carnal minds of men, but only imparted through the Spirit.
To know also means to become one with, as Adam knew his wife and they were one. When we truly know Him, it will not be a mental assent to the recognition of another, but we will be one with Him.
True religion and true science can and should coexist. One day the will.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Reality is all-inclusive........
Reality is all-inclusive........
In the greater totality of all that is....indeed, both science and religion correspond to each other, but in their proper contexts, parameters and applications. All material sciences study the reality of the physical world as much as they are able to prove or substantiate, while intellectual/spiritual realities are proved or experienced intellectually/spiritually, yet all these dimensions of the total reality of existence intertwine, inter-act and co-exist simultaneously.
Reality is all-inclusive........
In the greater totality of all that is....indeed, both science and religion correspond to each other, but in their proper contexts, parameters and applications. All material sciences study the reality of the physical world as much as they are able to prove or substantiate, while intellectual/spiritual realities are proved or experienced intellectually/spiritually, yet all these dimensions of the total reality of existence intertwine, inter-act and co-exist simultaneously.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Gnosis
Gnosis
The knowledge shared in the UB purports to be inspired by higher celestials and mid-wayers,....such knowledge could not be 'carnal', but of the Spirit. Don't forget we also have a spirit-fragment of God himself indwelling our minds,...called the 'thought-adjuster'. As we are quiet and allow the spirit of God within and without to lead and guide us,...we can only go higher, walking in the Spirit.
See here & here.
Also: Thought adjusters
Indeed, being 'one with God' is in Spirit, and in other ways.
Gnosis
The knowledge shared in the UB purports to be inspired by higher celestials and mid-wayers,....such knowledge could not be 'carnal', but of the Spirit. Don't forget we also have a spirit-fragment of God himself indwelling our minds,...called the 'thought-adjuster'. As we are quiet and allow the spirit of God within and without to lead and guide us,...we can only go higher, walking in the Spirit.
See here & here.
Also: Thought adjusters
Indeed, being 'one with God' is in Spirit, and in other ways.
nice new avatar, i think. i'm out of reps, getcha good 2moro, thanks. i need one more rep 2nite !
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Thanks,...I've been shuffling avatars around though,...so it might change on your next viewing......:surf:
THE HUMAN PARADOX
111:6.1 "Many of the temporal troubles of mortal man grow out of his twofold relation to the cosmos. Man is a part of nature—he exists in nature—and yet he is able to transcend nature. Man is finite, but he is indwelt by a spark of infinity. Such a dual situation not only provides the potential for evil but also engenders many social and moral situations fraught with much uncertainty and not a little anxiety.
111:6.2 The courage required to effect the conquest of nature and to transcend one's self is a courage that might succumb to the temptations of self-pride. The mortal who can transcend self might yield to the temptation to deify his own self-consciousness. The mortal dilemma consists in the double fact that man is in bondage to nature while at the same time he possesses a unique liberty— freedom of spiritual choice and action. On material levels man finds himself subservient to nature, while on spiritual levels he is triumphant over nature and over all things temporal and finite. Such a paradox is inseparable from temptation, potential evil, decisional errors, and when self becomes proud and arrogant, sin may evolve.
111:6.3 The problem of sin is not self-existent in the finite world. The fact of finiteness is not evil or sinful. The finite world was made by an infinite Creator—it is the handiwork of his divine Sons—and therefore it must be good. It is the misuse, distortion, and perversion of the finite that gives origin to evil and sin.
111:6.4 The spirit can dominate mind; so mind can control energy. But mind can control energy only through its own intelligent manipulation of the metamorphic potentials inherent in the mathematical level of the causes and effects of the physical domains. Creature mind does not inherently control energy; that is a Deity prerogative. But creature mind can and does manipulate energy just in so far as it has become master of the energy secrets of the physical universe.
111:6.5 When man wishes to modify physical reality, be it himself or his environment, he succeeds to the extent that he has discovered the ways and means of controlling matter and directing energy. Unaided mind is impotent to influence anything material save its own physical mechanism, with which it is inescapably linked. But through the intelligent use of the body mechanism, mind can create other mechanisms, even energy relationships and living relationships, by the utilization of which this mind can increasingly control and even dominate its physical level in the universe.
111:6.6Science is the source of facts, and mind cannot operate without facts. They are the building blocks in the construction of wisdom which are cemented together by life experience. Man can find the love of God without facts, and man can discover the laws of God without love, but man can never begin to appreciate the infinite symmetry, the supernal harmony, the exquisite repleteness of the all-inclusive nature of the First Source and Center until he has found divine law and divine love and has experientially unified these in his own evolving cosmic philosophy.
111:6.7 The expansion of material knowledge permits a greater intellectual appreciation of the meanings of ideas and the values of ideals. A human being can find truth in his inner experience, but he needs a clear knowledge of facts to apply his personal discovery of truth to the ruthlessly practical demands of everyday life.
111:6.8 It is only natural that mortal man should be harassed by feelings of insecurity as he views himself inextricably bound to nature while he possesses spiritual powers wholly transcendent to all things temporal and finite. Only religious confidence—living faith—can sustain man amid such difficult and perplexing problems.
111:6.9 Of all the dangers which beset man's mortal nature and jeopardize his spiritual integrity, pride is the greatest. Courage is valorous, but egotism is vainglorious and suicidal. Reasonable self-confidence is not to be deplored. Man's ability to transcend himself is the one thing which distinguishes him from the animal kingdom.
111:6.10 Pride is deceitful, intoxicating, and sin-breeding whether found in an individual, a group, a race, or a nation. It is literally true, “Pride goes before a fall.” UB 1955
Who was John of Patmos?
139:4.11 This son of Zebedee was very closely associated with Peter in the early activities of the Christian movement, becoming one of the chief supporters of the Jerusalem church. He was the right-hand support of Peter on the day of Pentecost.
139:4.12 Several years after the martyrdom of James, John married his brother's widow. The last twenty years of his life he was cared for by a loving granddaughter.
139:4.13 John was in prison several times and was banished to the Isle of Patmos for a period of four years until another emperor came to power in Rome. Had not John been tactful and sagacious, he would undoubtedly have been killed as was his more outspoken brother James. As the years passed, John, together with James the Lord's brother, learned to practice wise conciliation when they appeared before the civil magistrates. They found that a “soft answer turns away wrath.” They also learned to represent the church as a “spiritual brotherhood devoted to the social service of mankind” rather than as “the kingdom of heaven.” They taught loving service rather than ruling power— kingdom and king.
139:4.14 When in temporary exile on Patmos, John wrote the Book of Revelation, which you now have in greatly abridged and distorted form. This Book of Revelation contains the surviving fragments of a great revelation, large portions of which were lost, other portions of which were removed, subsequent to John's writing. It is preserved in only fragmentary and adulterated form.
139:4.15 John traveled much, labored incessantly, and after becoming bishop of the Asia churches, settled down at Ephesus. He directed his associate, Nathan, in the writing of the so-called “Gospel according to John,” at Ephesus, when he was ninety-nine years old. Of all the twelve apostles, John Zebedee eventually became the outstanding theologian. He died a natural death at Ephesus in A.D. 103 when he was one hundred and one years of age.
4. "The Gospel of John. The Gospel according to John relates much of Jesus' work in Judea and around Jerusalem which is not contained in the other records. This is the so-called Gospel according to John the son of Zebedee, and though John did not write it, he did inspire it. Since its first writing it has several times been edited to make it appear to have been written by John himself. When this record was made, John had the other Gospels, and he saw that much had been omitted; accordingly, in the year A.D. 101 he encouraged his associate, Nathan, a Greek Jew from Caesarea, to begin the writing. John supplied his material from memory and by reference to the three records already in existence. He had no written records of his own. The Epistle known as "First John" was written by John himself as a covering letter for the work which Nathan executed under his direction."
139:4.11 This son of Zebedee was very closely associated with Peter in the early activities of the Christian movement, becoming one of the chief supporters of the Jerusalem church. He was the right-hand support of Peter on the day of Pentecost.
139:4.12 Several years after the martyrdom of James, John married his brother's widow. The last twenty years of his life he was cared for by a loving granddaughter.
139:4.13 John was in prison several times and was banished to the Isle of Patmos for a period of four years until another emperor came to power in Rome. Had not John been tactful and sagacious, he would undoubtedly have been killed as was his more outspoken brother James. As the years passed, John, together with James the Lord's brother, learned to practice wise conciliation when they appeared before the civil magistrates. They found that a “soft answer turns away wrath.” They also learned to represent the church as a “spiritual brotherhood devoted to the social service of mankind” rather than as “the kingdom of heaven.” They taught loving service rather than ruling power— kingdom and king.
139:4.14 When in temporary exile on Patmos, John wrote the Book of Revelation, which you now have in greatly abridged and distorted form. This Book of Revelation contains the surviving fragments of a great revelation, large portions of which were lost, other portions of which were removed, subsequent to John's writing. It is preserved in only fragmentary and adulterated form.
139:4.15 John traveled much, labored incessantly, and after becoming bishop of the Asia churches, settled down at Ephesus. He directed his associate, Nathan, in the writing of the so-called “Gospel according to John,” at Ephesus, when he was ninety-nine years old. Of all the twelve apostles, John Zebedee eventually became the outstanding theologian. He died a natural death at Ephesus in A.D. 103 when he was one hundred and one years of age.
4. "The Gospel of John. The Gospel according to John relates much of Jesus' work in Judea and around Jerusalem which is not contained in the other records. This is the so-called Gospel according to John the son of Zebedee, and though John did not write it, he did inspire it. Since its first writing it has several times been edited to make it appear to have been written by John himself. When this record was made, John had the other Gospels, and he saw that much had been omitted; accordingly, in the year A.D. 101 he encouraged his associate, Nathan, a Greek Jew from Caesarea, to begin the writing. John supplied his material from memory and by reference to the three records already in existence. He had no written records of his own. The Epistle known as "First John" was written by John himself as a covering letter for the work which Nathan executed under his direction."
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