The Late Great Urantia Revelation

[freelight]

Discussion on religion...............

Discussion on religion...............

<snip>

This seems more like a criticism of Caino's personal beliefs and feelings (however subjective) than anything, as if this inner witness of the Spirit was his only 'guide' or 'proof' of anything being 'true', then somewhat ridiculing that however subtly. Note that Jesus said the Spirit of truth would lead, guid and teach us all things. Also, what is recorded of Jesus teachings in the UB are paraphrases expressed in modern day speech as to be easily communicated (at least in the early 20th century English when such were transcribed).

The particular points deserve to be expanded and discussed, rather than just claiming such as 'blasphemy', when such a 'charge' might really be an exaggerated epitome of an idea, belief or concept that is misappropriated, when a greater light of context and definition of terms are applied. This discussion of Jesus with Nathaniel (entertain it even if religious fiction)...has been shared many times here before, and is worthy of discussion/debate. If you are free to share what your heart resonates with, and how you feel 'God' speaks to you,...then so is any other 'theist' on the forum here, since this is the forum on 'Religion' which the UB expounds extensively upon. See here.

The UB wholly stands for the teachings of Jesus, the ethics, values and meanings of true spiritual living, kingdom fellowship and principle of human brotherhood, we all being children of One Universal Father. The differences/similarities of UB theology are shared in info. links in the OP and elsewhere in the thread, for purposes of education and discussion. This is not a 'promo' thread, but an 'info.' and 'discussion' portal, and becomes whatever posters make of it, according to forum rules of course.

Those trolling the thread do not help the aims and objectives of TOL or its rules, since posters can use the space most optimally to engage in informative discussions, whose 'creative dialogue' becomes positive and productive.



pj

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Let's just put it this way; TOL is a nice hot cup of Coffee, and Caino, Zeke,
and yourself are a dead fly found in that cup of nice Coffee!

How's that analogy fit ya?

 

[Lon]

Also, what is recorded of Jesus teachings in the UB are paraphrases expressed in modern day speech as to be easily communicated (at least in the early 20th century English when such were transcribed).
pj

I highly doubt that. Give me a link to the originals.

 

[freelight]

Originals?

Originals?

I highly doubt that. Give me a link to the originals.

Again, Part 4 of the UB has the teachings of Jesus paraphrased in modern day English, that's how they were transcribed/given. It is senseless to doubt such communications are obviously paraphrased in the common English of the time, when such is evident. I don't know if the original papers(autographs) of Part 4 still exist, or just now the copies, as in the NT writings.



pj

 

[TulipBee]

Again, Part 4 of the UB has the teachings of Jesus paraphrased in modern day English, that's how they were transcribed/given. It is senseless to doubt such communications are obviously paraphrased in the common English of the time, when such is evident. I don't know if the original papers(autographs) of Part 4 still exist, or just now the copies, as in the NT writings.



pj

A single wave of a vibrating particle contains all the history of the universe. When an enlightened one tapped into it, he gets the "ah ha!" moment meaning he understood everything. The laws of God are written everywhere. The collective TOL'ers don't see it nor hear them. Thas the meaning of being blind. Youre in the crowd of blinds leading blinds. What will you learn from them?

 

[Caino]

This is my religion, I post it in the Religion section on Theology Online. Knight has been gracious to allow a hearing of this book. There are thousands of other threads here were you can all tell each other about the thousands of different Christian doctrines.

It was the lawyerly "Lon's" of Judaism whose hard hearts were closed to Jesus, they listened to him and made all the same accusations of blasphemy, demonic possession, aligned with Satan, you cant use common sense etc.

It was the Lon's of Judaism whose self righteous authoritarianism lead them to legitimize the en-mass persecutions of the Christians starting with stoning Steven on the spot.

Using the logic of Lon and the inability to think outside of the OT scripture, Lon only proves that had he been a Jew during the times of Jesus he would have been right in there hating Liberal Jesus like he hates us! He would have hated the truths of his words as Jesus insulted only his religious pride and diligently searched the scripture to reject him just as Judaism STILL rejects Jesus based on the scripture!

John 16:2​

"These things I have spoken to you so that you may be kept from stumbling. "They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God. "These things they will do because they have not known the Father or Me.…​

 

[Caino]

Do people even realize that, to the Jews, adding the New Testament books to their Bible is Blasphemous? Many key elements of the Christian religion are foreign to them, Christian apologetics must force things into the OT books to legitimize Jesus as the Jews Messiah that are just not so apparent, very flimsy support.

 

[Caino]

From my religion, my faith:

(1411.5) 128:3.5 "Perhaps the most notable of all these contacts was the one with a young Hellenist named Stephen. This young man was on his first visit to Jerusalem and chanced to meet Jesus on Thursday afternoon of Passover week. While they both strolled about viewing the Asmonean palace, Jesus began the casual conversation that resulted in their becoming interested in each other, and which led to a four-hour discussion of the way of life and the true God and his worship. Stephen was tremendously impressed with what Jesus said; he never forgot his words.

(1411.6) 128:3.6 And this was the same Stephen who subsequently became a believer in the teachings of Jesus, and whose boldness in preaching this early gospel resulted in his being stoned to death by irate Jews. Some of Stephen’s extraordinary boldness in proclaiming his view of the new gospel was the direct result of this earlier interview with Jesus. But Stephen never even faintly surmised that the Galilean he had talked with some fifteen years previously was the very same person whom he later proclaimed the world’s Savior, and for whom he was so soon to die, thus becoming the first martyr of the newly evolving Christian faith. When Stephen yielded up his life as the price of his attack upon the Jewish temple and its traditional practices, there stood by one named Saul, a citizen of Tarsus. And when Saul saw how this Greek could die for his faith, there were aroused in his heart those emotions which eventually led him to espouse the cause for which Stephen died; later on he became the aggressive and indomitable Paul, the philosopher, if not the sole founder, of the Christian religion."​

 

[TulipBee]

7



9. Natural Philosophy​

(479.6) 42:9.1 Religion is not alone dogmatic; natural philosophy equally tends to dogmatize. When a renowned religious teacher reasoned that the number seven was fundamental to nature because there are seven openings in the human head, if he had known more of chemistry, he might have advocated such a belief founded on a true phenomenon of the physical world. There is in all the physical universes of time and space, notwithstanding the universal manifestation of the decimal constitution of energy, the ever-present reminder of the reality of the sevenfold electronic organization of prematter.

(479.7) 42:9.2 The number seven is basic to the central universe and the spiritual system of inherent transmissions of character, but the number ten, the decimal system, is inherent in energy, matter, and the material creation. Nevertheless the atomic world does display a certain periodic characterization which recurs in groups of seven — a birthmark carried by this material world indicative of its far-distant spiritual origin.

(480.1) 42:9.3 This sevenfold persistence of creative constitution is exhibited in the chemical domains as a recurrence of similar physical and chemical properties in segregated periods of seven when the basic elements are arranged in the order of their atomic weights. When the Urantia chemical elements are thus arranged in a row, any given quality or property tends to recur by sevens. This periodic change by sevens recurs diminishingly and with variations throughout the entire chemical table, being most markedly observable in the earlier or lighter atomic groupings. Starting from any one element, after noting some one property, such a quality will change for six consecutive elements, but on reaching the eighth, it tends to reappear, that is, the eighth chemically active element resembles the first, the ninth the second, and so on. Such a fact of the physical world unmistakably points to the sevenfold constitution of ancestral energy and is indicative of the fundamental reality of the sevenfold diversity of the creations of time and space. Man should also note that there are seven colors in the natural spectrum.

(480.2) 42:9.4 But not all the suppositions of natural philosophy are valid; for example, the hypothetical ether, which represents an ingenious attempt of man to unify his ignorance of space phenomena. The philosophy of the universe cannot be predicated on the observations of so-called science. If such a metamorphosis could not be seen, a scientist would be inclined to deny the possibility of developing a butterfly out of a caterpillar.

(480.3) 42:9.5 Physical stability associated with biologic elasticity is present in nature only because of the well-nigh infinite wisdom possessed by the Master Architects of creation. Nothing less than transcendental wisdom could ever design units of matter which are at the same time so stable and so efficiently flexible.

In ivan panins discovery, he also used a lot of other numbers to scientifically prove that man can't write the Bible alone. 7 was just the tip of the iceburg. Some of the amazing discovery had perfectly divisible results on how many "moses" mentioned in all of the 66 books. Author A would write moses so many times. Author B does the same. Authors X, Y, and Z would write the final moses word to complete the Bible. Make note that many authors lived in another time and place, many didn't know each other and God inspired them to get the right number of Moses word that ends up perfectly divisible by sets of numbers. This proves that man cannot do this and proves the bible is from God. What's it matter if some of it are fables to you? The numbers are there for us to decode. The super computers are still running the bible full time and even more discoveries are found. The next discovery would blow your mind. You'll drop to your knees with your nose on the ground under this power to big for you to handle.

 

[Aimiel]

Note that Jesus said the Spirit of truth would lead, guid and teach us all things.

This is true, but only for those who actually HAVE The Spirit of Truth in them.

The particular points deserve to be expanded and discussed...

No, they don't, since they're fiction. Were they Truth, they would agree with Scripture. Since the UB teaches that Jesus' Blood is worthless, it obviously violates what Jesus taught and what Scripture says.

The UB wholly stands for the teachings of Jesus, the ethics, values and meanings of true spiritual living, kingdom fellowship and principle of human brotherhood, we all being children of One Universal Father.

Jesus didn't teach that. He said that one MUST be born again to even SEE The Kingdom. He also said that one MUST drink His Blood and eat His Flesh to have any life in them.

Those trolling the thread do not help the aims and objectives of TOL or its rules, since posters can use the space most optimally to engage in informative discussions, whose 'creative dialogue' becomes positive and productive.

Those who adhere to the UB CANNOT have dialogue with those who adhere to Scripture, since the UB contradicts Scripture. It's indefensible. It is pure fiction and has nothing to do with God. The god portrayed by the UB (Jebus) doesn't even exist.

 

[Caino]

In ivan panins discovery, he also used a lot of other numbers to scientifically prove that man can't write the Bible alone. 7 was just the tip of the iceburg. Some of the amazing discovery had perfectly divisible results on how many "moses" mentioned in all of the 66 books. Author A would write moses so many times. Author B does the same. Authors X, Y, and Z would write the final moses word to complete the Bible. Make note that many authors lived in another time and place, many didn't know each other and God inspired them to get the right number of Moses word that ends up perfectly divisible by sets of numbers. This proves that man cannot do this and proves the bible is from God. What's it matter if some of it are fables to you? The numbers are there for us to decode. The super computers are still running the bible full time and even more discoveries are found. The next discovery would blow your mind. You'll drop to your knees with your nose on the ground under this power to big for you to handle.

What scripture, what religion were people before Moses reformed everything? For thousands of years there were many other religions, beliefs, commandments and traditions which came along with the tribes that Moses brought together at Saini.

According to the UB it was incarnate Melchizedek who established the agreement with Abram. These were the original commands of Melchizedeks Salem missionaries:

The Salem Religion​

(1017.3) 93:4.1 The ceremonies of the Salem worship were very simple. Every person who signed or marked the clay-tablet rolls of the Melchizedek church committed to memory, and subscribed to, the following belief:


(1017.4) 93:4.2 1. I believe in El Elyon, the Most High God, the only Universal Father and Creator of all things.

(1017.5) 93:4.3 2. I accept the Melchizedek covenant with the Most High, which bestows the favor of God on my faith, not on sacrifices and burnt offerings.

(1017.6) 93:4.4 3. I promise to obey the seven commandments of Melchizedek and to tell the good news of this covenant with the Most High to all men.

(1017.7) 93:4.5 And that was the whole of the creed of the Salem colony. But even such a short and simple declaration of faith was altogether too much and too advanced for the men of those days. They simply could not grasp the idea of getting divine favor for nothing — by faith. They were too deeply confirmed in the belief that man was born under forfeit to the gods. Too long and too earnestly had they sacrificed and made gifts to the priests to be able to comprehend the good news that salvation, divine favor, was a free gift to all who would believe in the Melchizedek covenant. But Abraham did believe halfheartedly, and even that was “counted for righteousness.”

(1017.8) 93:4.6 The seven commandments promulgated by Melchizedek were patterned along the lines of the ancient Dalamatian supreme law and very much resembled the seven commands taught in the first and second Edens. These commands of the Salem religion were:


(1017.9) 93:4.7 1. You shall not serve any God but the Most High Creator of heaven and earth.

(1017.10) 93:4.8 2. You shall not doubt that faith is the only requirement for eternal salvation.

(1017.11) 93:4.9 3. You shall not bear false witness.

(1017.12) 93:4.10 4. You shall not kill.

(1017.13) 93:4.11 5. You shall not steal.

(1018.1) 93:4.12 6. You shall not commit adultery.

(1018.2) 93:4.13 7. You shall not show disrespect for your parents and elders.

(1018.3) 93:4.14 While no sacrifices were permitted within the colony, Melchizedek well knew how difficult it is to suddenly uproot long-established customs and accordingly had wisely offered these people the substitute of a sacrament of bread and wine for the older sacrifice of flesh and blood. It is of record, “Melchizedek, king of Salem, brought forth bread and wine.” But even this cautious innovation was not altogether successful; the various tribes all maintained auxiliary centers on the outskirts of Salem where they offered sacrifices and burnt offerings. Even Abraham resorted to this barbarous practice after his victory over Chedorlaomer; he simply did not feel quite at ease until he had offered a conventional sacrifice. And Melchizedek never did succeed in fully eradicating this proclivity to sacrifice from the religious practices of his followers, even of Abraham.
​

 

[Aimiel]

There are NO revelations of Truth in the UB. It's demonic doctrine, designed to draw people away from The Power of God and His salvation, available ONLY through Jesus' Blood.

 

[TulipBee]

What scripture, what religion were people before Moses reformed everything? For thousands of years there were many other religions, beliefs, commandments and traditions which came along with the tribes that Moses brought together at Saini.

According to the UB it was incarnate Melchizedek who established the agreement with Abram. These were the original commands of Melchizedeks Salem missionaries:

The Salem Religion​

(1017.3) 93:4.1 The ceremonies of the Salem worship were very simple. Every person who signed or marked the clay-tablet rolls of the Melchizedek church committed to memory, and subscribed to, the following belief:


(1017.4) 93:4.2 1. I believe in El Elyon, the Most High God, the only Universal Father and Creator of all things.

(1017.5) 93:4.3 2. I accept the Melchizedek covenant with the Most High, which bestows the favor of God on my faith, not on sacrifices and burnt offerings.

(1017.6) 93:4.4 3. I promise to obey the seven commandments of Melchizedek and to tell the good news of this covenant with the Most High to all men.

(1017.7) 93:4.5 And that was the whole of the creed of the Salem colony. But even such a short and simple declaration of faith was altogether too much and too advanced for the men of those days. They simply could not grasp the idea of getting divine favor for nothing — by faith. They were too deeply confirmed in the belief that man was born under forfeit to the gods. Too long and too earnestly had they sacrificed and made gifts to the priests to be able to comprehend the good news that salvation, divine favor, was a free gift to all who would believe in the Melchizedek covenant. But Abraham did believe halfheartedly, and even that was “counted for righteousness.”

(1017.8) 93:4.6 The seven commandments promulgated by Melchizedek were patterned along the lines of the ancient Dalamatian supreme law and very much resembled the seven commands taught in the first and second Edens. These commands of the Salem religion were:


(1017.9) 93:4.7 1. You shall not serve any God but the Most High Creator of heaven and earth.

(1017.10) 93:4.8 2. You shall not doubt that faith is the only requirement for eternal salvation.

(1017.11) 93:4.9 3. You shall not bear false witness.

(1017.12) 93:4.10 4. You shall not kill.

(1017.13) 93:4.11 5. You shall not steal.

(1018.1) 93:4.12 6. You shall not commit adultery.

(1018.2) 93:4.13 7. You shall not show disrespect for your parents and elders.

(1018.3) 93:4.14 While no sacrifices were permitted within the colony, Melchizedek well knew how difficult it is to suddenly uproot long-established customs and accordingly had wisely offered these people the substitute of a sacrament of bread and wine for the older sacrifice of flesh and blood. It is of record, “Melchizedek, king of Salem, brought forth bread and wine.” But even this cautious innovation was not altogether successful; the various tribes all maintained auxiliary centers on the outskirts of Salem where they offered sacrifices and burnt offerings. Even Abraham resorted to this barbarous practice after his victory over Chedorlaomer; he simply did not feel quite at ease until he had offered a conventional sacrifice. And Melchizedek never did succeed in fully eradicating this proclivity to sacrifice from the religious practices of his followers, even of Abraham.
​

The discovery of ivan panin isn't just about sevens. And it isn't just about the number of times moses were mentioned in the 66 books. There are other things that has this same pattern. I was talking about the word moses in the original Hebrew and greek.

 

[Caino]

Actually, the UB reveals that life was started by the Life Carriers right here on the planet. Evolution was then fostered.

(667.6) 58:4.2 550,000,000 years ago the Life Carrier corps returned to Urantia. In co-operation with spiritual powers and superphysical forces we organized and initiated the original life patterns of this world and planted them in the hospitable waters of the realm. All planetary life (aside from extraplanetary personalities) down to the days of Caligastia, the Planetary Prince, had its origin in our three original, identical, and simultaneous marine-life implantations. These three life implantations have been designated as: the central or Eurasian-African, the eastern or Australasian, and the western, embracing Greenland and the Americas.

(668.1) 58:4.3 500,000,000 years ago primitive marine vegetable life was well established on Urantia. Greenland and the arctic land mass, together with North and South America, were beginning their long and slow westward drift. Africa moved slightly south, creating an east and west trough, the Mediterranean basin, between itself and the mother body. Antarctica, Australia, and the land indicated by the islands of the Pacific broke away on the south and east and have drifted far away since that day.

(668.2) 58:4.4 We had planted the primitive form of marine life in the sheltered tropic bays of the central seas of the east-west cleavage of the breaking-up continental land mass. Our purpose in making three marine-life implantations was to insure that each great land mass would carry this life with it, in its warm-water seas, as the land subsequently separated. We foresaw that in the later era of the emergence of land life large oceans of water would separate these drifting continental land masses." UB 1955​

The 6 day creation story came from a much older Adam and Eve spending the first 6 days on earth after their incarnation surveying the garden.

 

[journey]

A creation comedy brought to you by the ub. No thanks! I'll take the Genesis account in the Holy Bible and believe it instead.

 

[Lon]

Again, Part 4 of the UB has the teachings of Jesus paraphrased in modern day English, that's how they were transcribed/given. It is senseless to doubt such communications are obviously paraphrased in the common English of the time, when such is evident. I don't know if the original papers(autographs) of Part 4 still exist, or just now the copies, as in the NT writings.



pj

:think: Took a page from that devious Golden Plates episode did they?

I had of course, suspected as much. What language were they translating from? Egyptian again?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Actually, the UB reveals that life was started by the Life Carriers right here on the planet. Evolution was then fostered.

(667.6) 58:4.2 550,000,000 years ago the Life Carrier corps returned to Urantia. In co-operation with spiritual powers and superphysical forces we organized and initiated the original life patterns of this world and planted them in the hospitable waters of the realm. All planetary life (aside from extraplanetary personalities) down to the days of Caligastia, the Planetary Prince, had its origin in our three original, identical, and simultaneous marine-life implantations. These three life implantations have been designated as: the central or Eurasian-African, the eastern or Australasian, and the western, embracing Greenland and the Americas.

(668.1) 58:4.3 500,000,000 years ago primitive marine vegetable life was well established on Urantia. Greenland and the arctic land mass, together with North and South America, were beginning their long and slow westward drift. Africa moved slightly south, creating an east and west trough, the Mediterranean basin, between itself and the mother body. Antarctica, Australia, and the land indicated by the islands of the Pacific broke away on the south and east and have drifted far away since that day.

(668.2) 58:4.4 We had planted the primitive form of marine life in the sheltered tropic bays of the central seas of the east-west cleavage of the breaking-up continental land mass. Our purpose in making three marine-life implantations was to insure that each great land mass would carry this life with it, in its warm-water seas, as the land subsequently separated. We foresaw that in the later era of the emergence of land life large oceans of water would separate these drifting continental land masses." UB 1955​

Didn't one of your "Lightbearers" originate on the planet, "Metaluna?"

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

According to the UB it was incarnate Melchizedek who established the agreement with Abram. These were the original commands of Melchizedeks Salem missionaries:

"Klaatu barada nikto"

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Wasn't the film, "Plan 9 from outer Space" used as a model for the
writing of the "Urantia Book?"

 

[freelight]

No golden plates involved.......

No golden plates involved.......

:think: Took a page from that devious Golden Plates episode did they?

Not at all. There is no comparison to the UB and the BoM, if that's what you're alluding. Have you read the OP and followed along to even know what the UB is, what it teaches or read any portion of it? First 5 papers are essential, if you're interested in its theology of 'God'. Its kind of essential for an informed discussion on it. Otherwise one speaks from ignorance and assumption, as some here do.

A history of the Urantia Papers

I had of course, suspected as much.

See the OP, and read thru the thread, ample commentary, resource-articles, videos have been provided, so that 'ignorance' is unnecessary, that is if you're interested in being 'informed' to engage in an intelligent discussion.

What language were they translating from? Egyptian again?

You're coming from a false presupposition, so your conclusion will be erroneous. While there are mysterious means indicated in the transmission process, it was all in English, transcribed down on paper, then eventually published in 1955.

~*~*~

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Intro. Articles

UB online nexus




pj