ECT The Land Promise the LORD Gave To David

[beloved57]

This verse does not say that all the promises of God were "fulfilled" in Christ. Here A.R. Fausset gives the correct interpretation:

" 20. Rather, How many soever be the promises of God, in Him is the "yea" ("faithfulness in His word": contrasted with the "yea and nay," 2Cr 1:19, that is, inconstancy as to one's word).
and in him Amen--The oldest manuscripts read, "Wherefore through Him is the Amen"; that is, In Him is faithfulness ("yea") to His word, "wherefore through Him" is the immutable verification of it ("Amen"). As "yea" is His word, so "Amen" is His oath, which makes our assurance of the fulfilment doubly sure. Compare "two immutable things (namely, His word and His oath) in which it was impossible for God to lie" ( Hbr 6:18 Rev 3:14 ). The whole range of Old Testament and New Testament promises are secure in their fulfilment for us in Christ" (Fausset, Jamieson, Fausset & Brown; Commentary on 2 Corinthians 1).​

You dont see that statement?Thats exactly what Im talking about.Isnt that a promise from the OT?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You dont see that statement?Thats exactly what Im talking about.Isnt that a promise from the OT?

He doesn't say thst they are fulfilled in Christ but that their fulfillment is SECURE in Christ:

"The whole range of Old Testament and New Testament promises are secure in their fulfilment for us in Christ"​

That is plain because of what he said earlier:

As "yea" is His word, so "Amen" is His oath, which makes our assurance of the fulfilment doubly sure.​

 

[TweetyBird]

To prove that this verse is speaking about the Lord Jesus coming to the earth to sit upon His throne in the future:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).​

Ok - but I am wondering what this has to do with Israel and a literal physical promised land ...

What the Lord Jesus said there was in answer to His disciple's question, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the age?" (Mt.24:3).

They asked Him about His "coming" to the earth so when He answered about His coming in glory He was speaking about "coming" to the earth and sitting on His throne.

Since you have no place for that event in your eschatology you must somehow pervert His plain meaning.

That is in the new Heavens and earth and when the New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven. The heavens and earth will be burned up and cease to exist. Jesus is not going to physically rule from this current corrupt and cursed planet. He is going to rule in a new glorious realm. In fact, it already exists. We just cannot see it until that age to come appears before our eyes.

Are you really ignorant of the fact that the Father will give the "throne of David" to the Lord Jesus?:

"He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end" (Lk.1:32,33).​

God has already given the throne to Jesus. The Throne was His when He was born. Even the Jews recognized His Kingship and that He is the Son of David.

Here the Lord Jesus speaks of two different thrones so it is evident that there is not just one throne, as you imagine:

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne" (Rev.3:21).​

If you believe there are two Thrones in Heaven, then why did Hebrews say this:

Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.


When I look at the references in Rev pertaining the Throne - I see only one - that both Jesus and God sit upon.

Rev 4
2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. 3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. 9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever, 10 the four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Rev 7
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Rev 21
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

 

[TweetyBird]

This verse does not say that all the promises of God were "fulfilled" in Christ. Here A.R. Fausset gives the correct interpretation:

" 20. Rather, How many soever be the promises of God, in Him is the "yea" ("faithfulness in His word": contrasted with the "yea and nay," 2Cr 1:19, that is, inconstancy as to one's word).
and in him Amen--The oldest manuscripts read, "Wherefore through Him is the Amen"; that is, In Him is faithfulness ("yea") to His word, "wherefore through Him" is the immutable verification of it ("Amen"). As "yea" is His word, so "Amen" is His oath, which makes our assurance of the fulfilment doubly sure. Compare "two immutable things (namely, His word and His oath) in which it was impossible for God to lie" ( Hbr 6:18 Rev 3:14 ). The whole range of Old Testament and New Testament promises are secure in their fulfilment for us in Christ" (Fausset, Jamieson, Fausset & Brown; Commentary on 2 Corinthians 1).​

I see that Fausset also states that the promises are IN CHRIST. In fact, Paul also states in Gal 3 that the promise to Abraham is referring to Christ. In Him is the promise - He is the purpose of the promise to Abraham. If the land promise remained, Paul would surely have mentioned it.

Gal 3
14 that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I see that Fausset also states that the promises are IN CHRIST.

No, he says that the promises are SECURE IN THEIR FULFILLMENT in Christ.

And that idea was expressed earlier by him:

As "yea" is His word, so "Amen" is His oath, which makes our assurance of the fulfilment doubly sure. ​

If you believe there are two Thrones in Heaven, then why did Hebrews say this:

There are two thrones, one in heaven and the Lord Jesus will sit upon the throne of David on the earth.

You are unable to reason out of the Scriptures, as evidenced by the fact that you see only "one" throne in the following verse:

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne" (Rev.3:21).​

If there is only one throne then why did the Lord Jesus refer to one throne as His throne and another throne as his Father's throne?

 

[beloved57]

js

He doesn't say thst they are fulfilled in Christ but that their fulfillment is SECURE in Christ:

Apples for oranges ! Its the same thing. Why do you think their fulfillment is secure in Christ ? Because He fulfills all the Promises in His Person and Work. Christ is in direct contrast to the earthy, which you contend for 1 Cor 15:47,48

[FONT=&quot]The first man is of the earth, [/FONT]earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

Christ's interest lies in the heavenly Heb 11:16

[FONT=&quot]But now they desire a better country, that is, an [/FONT]heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Thats the country the heirs looked for by faith Heb 11:9-10

[FONT=&quot]By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

And Israel, the natural seed of Abraham, typified as ishmael and the covenant at siani in Gal 4:22-25 shall not be Heirs Gal 4:30

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.


So national israel according to the flesh has no claim or promise to obtain any land from God. The Land of Canaan Promise here Gen 17:8

And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Abraham's physical seed of Abraham has not one claim or right to that land, they are totally excluded ![/FONT]

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Neh 9:7 Thou art the LORD the God, who didst choose Abram, and broughtest him forth out of Ur of the Chaldees, and gavest him the name of Abraham;
Neh 9:8 And foundest his heart faithful before thee, and madest a covenant with him to give the land of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Jebusites, and the Girgashites, to give it, I say, to his seed, and hast performed thy words; for thou art righteous:

 

[beloved57]

Double post

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Apples for oranges ! Its the same thing. Why do you think their fulfillment is secure in Christ ? Because He fulfills all the Promises in His Person and Work.

If that is true then the Lord "altered" the promise which He made to David despite the fact that He said that He would not alter that promise:

"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant...Nevertheless my loving-kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David" (Ps.89:3,33-35).​

Here is the land promise given to David by the Lord:

"Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David...I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime" (2 Sam.7:8,10).​

"And move no more"! This promise according to the Davidic covenant is restated later by the prophet Jeremiah:

"For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up"(Jer.24:6).​

"And not pluck them up"! The promise the Lord made to David at 2 Samuel 7:10 was not fulfilled in the first century so its fulfillment will happen after that.

According to your ideas the Lord altered the Land promises He made to David because what He promised David about the Israelites never moving from the land will never happen.

You make the Lord a liar.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Neh 9:7 Thou art the LORD the God, who didst choose Abram, and broughtest him forth out of Ur of the Chaldees, and gavest him the name of Abraham;
Neh 9:8 And foundest his heart faithful before thee, and madest a covenant with him to give the land of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Jebusites, and the Girgashites, to give it, I say, to his seed, and hast performed thy words; for thou art righteous:

Yes, but later the Israelites were moved from that land so the following promise still has not been fulfilled:

Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David...I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime" (2 Sam.7:8,10).​

"And move no more"! This promise according to the Davidic covenant is restated later by the prophet Jeremiah:

"For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up"(Jer.24:6).​

 

[Crucible]

Madists act like the they were the first and only people ever to have interpreted the Bible :chuckle:

The simple fact is that nothing of thread makes a case. It's just grandstanding on wide open passages.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Madists act like the they were the first and only people ever to have interpreted the Bible :chuckle:

The simple fact is that nothing of thread makes a case. It's just grandstanding on wide open passages.

I have given evidence from the Bible to make my case and no one has been able to prove what I said in my initial post is in error.

It seems to me that the only one on this thread who is grandstanding is you!

 

[Crucible]

I have given evidence from the Bible to make my case and no one has been able to prove what I said in my initial post is in error.

It seems to me that the only one on this thread who is grandstanding is you!

The plain fact is that the 'chosen people' you think will return to this promised land were not only nullified by Christ, but they don't even really exist anymore.

God's elect are Christians, and His kingdom is Christianity.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

The plain fact is that the 'chosen people' you think will return to this promised land were not only nullified by Christ, but they don't even really exist anymore.

God's elect are Christians, and His kingdom is Christianity.

Yes, and the saints inherit the whole earth of the new Heavens and new earth.

Jerry thinks like a blind Jew.

LA

 

[Interplanner]

I have given evidence from the Bible to make my case and no one has been able to prove what I said in my initial post is in error.

It seems to me that the only one on this thread who is grandstanding is you!

I don't think you understand Ps 89

 

[beloved57]

If that is true then the Lord "altered" the promise which He made to David despite the fact that He said that He would not alter that promise:

"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant...Nevertheless my loving-kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David" (Ps.89:3,33-35).​

Here is the land promise given to David by the Lord:

"Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David...I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime" (2 Sam.7:8,10).​

"And move no more"! This promise according to the Davidic covenant is restated later by the prophet Jeremiah:

"For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up"(Jer.24:6).​

"And not pluck them up"! The promise the Lord made to David at 2 Samuel 7:10 was not fulfilled in the first century so its fulfillment will happen after that.

According to your ideas the Lord altered the Land promises He made to David because what He promised David about the Israelites never moving from the land will never happen.

You make the Lord a liar.

No He did not alter anything, for no promise was ever made to David and the natural seed of Israel since they are not Gods people Rom 9:8. You believe a lie!

 

[Danoh]

I don't think you understand Ps 89

Ps 89 - isn't that a Public School in New York?

:chuckle:

 

[Interplanner]

No He did not alter anything, for no promise was ever made to David and the natural seed of Israel since they are not Gods people Rom 9:8. You believe a lie!

The Psalm 89 makes this distinction too. There's a "David" there who will be seated with God. But the sons of David who sin will be devastated.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The plain fact is that the 'chosen people' you think will return to this promised land were not only nullified by Christ, but they don't even really exist anymore.

The Lord promised David that He would take the Israelites back to the land and they would "move no more":

"Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David...I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime" (2 Sam.7:8,10).​

Therefore we can understand that the Lord has made promises to David in respect to the promised land that have not yet been fulfilled. There has never been a time when the children of Israel have been brought back to the promised land and moved no more(unless that is being fulfilled now).

The Lord also promised David that His faithfulness would not fail and He would not "alter" His promises:

"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant...Nevertheless my loving-kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David" (Ps.89:3,33-35).​

Those like you who say that the land promise which the Lord made to David will not be fulfilled literally must assert that the Lord "altered" His promise. Therefore, according to your ideas, the Lord lied to David.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I don't think you understand Ps 89

I think that you have no answer to what the Lord said about not altering the promises which He made to David so you must somehow find a way to pervert His words.