ECT The Land Promise the LORD Gave To David

Interplanner

Well-known member
Folks, I nor scripture ever stated that a physical jew, someone who is a jew by a physical connection biologically to Abraham cant be saved. Sure they can, if they belong to the election of Grace, for example like Paul did, as well as the other disciples of Christ. God stated that within the physical nation there is a remnant according to the elect ion of grace Rom 11:3-5

[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]3 [/B][/FONT]Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.[/FONT]

[FONT="]5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Theres also the promise that even though national israel according to the flesh had a large multitude as the sand of the sea, yet only a small remnant shall be saved Rom 9:27

Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:


So at the casting away of national physical israel as a whole, individual jews can and will be saved. However, theres no national salvation of israel, nor no land promises to national israel, they are not [as a nation] the Children of God Rom 9:8 no more as japan nationality are the children of God ![/FONT]


Right. The most significant 'play on words' of the NT is that the people who now operate God's vineyard in Mt 22 are a new 'ethne.' It is a play on that because it is actually people of all ethnes (all ethnicity). Ie, he was consciously making sure we knew that the ethne Israel as such would not be that people.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Yes Paul was of Gods people, and saved, but was it because he was a physical jew ?

I never said that. Instead, I was addressing what you said here:

Again, the physical seed of Abraham Israel are not the children of God, nor heirs Rom 9:8 !

Again, Paul was the physical seed of Abraham and he is a child of God. So what you said is wrong.

Folks, I nor scripture ever stated that a physical jew, someone who is a jew by a physical connection biologically to Abraham cant be saved.

If that is true then how can you explain what you said here?:

Again, the physical seed of Abraham Israel are not the children of God, nor heirs Rom 9:8 !

As usual, you are totally confused!
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Right. The most significant 'play on words' of the NT is that the people who now operate God's vineyard in Mt 22 are a new 'ethne.' It is a play on that because it is actually people of all ethnes (all ethnicity). Ie, he was consciously making sure we knew that the ethne Israel as such would not be that people.

I can see that.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
I never said that. Instead, I was addressing what you said here:



Again, Paul was the physical seed of Abraham and he is a child of God. So what you said is wrong.



If that is true then how can you explain what you said here?:



As usual, you are totally confused!

No your confused. Individuals of all nations are included in the Abrahamic Covenant Gen 12:3
And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Right. The most significant 'play on words' of the NT is that the people who now operate God's vineyard in Mt 22 are a new 'ethne.' It is a play on that because it is actually people of all ethnes (all ethnicity). Ie, he was consciously making sure we knew that the ethne Israel as such would not be that people.
:juggle:
You Cancellationists say the craziest things.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
The new covenant is not like the old because Christ is the 2nd party. It is only about those in Christ, which is the church. You refuse to come to terms with what Hebrews and 2 Cor 3-5 are saying.

Why do you quote what I said on this subject and then completely ignore it? Evidenently you cannot refute anything which I said. I will repeat what you quoted and if you can refute what I said then now is your chance.

Again, the following people from the house of Israel and from the house of Judah will be the natural seed of Israel and they will be God's people:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32. Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33. But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).​

This is referring to the natural seed because their "fathers" broke the covenant.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
The parable are NOT about the body of Christ.

You have well earned your title as DingleBerry.



That was not the question. the question was who did the parable say it was written to? It is not an opinion; Matthew tells us.

Name-calling is childish and is not a position on the issue here.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Why do you quote what I said on this subject and then completely ignore it? Evidenently you cannot refute anything which I said. I will repeat what you quoted and if you can refute what I said then now is your chance.

Again, the following people from the house of Israel and from the house of Judah will be the natural seed of Israel and they will be God's people:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32. Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33. But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).​

This is referring to the natural seed because their "fathers" broke the covenant.



But when Paul spoke of it, it was about all mankind and the ministry of the Gospel. You are chained to the old covenant. Break loose. Drop the veil over your eyes and see what is in Christ. I'm not taking your interp of the passage over the NT interp of the passage, got it?
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
But when Paul spoke of it, it was about all mankind and the ministry of the Gospel.

No, Paul said that "all Israel shall be saved" and then he referred to the covenant which was given to the house of Israel and the house of Judah. And as I have shown, those who will received that covenant will be the physical seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. And all of them will know the Lord and all of them will have their sins forgiven.

You have not been able to prove that anything which I said is in error. You just speak in generalities while just ignoring the FACTS which I have pointed out. You evidently think that you are so smart that you do not have to stoop and consider the FACTS. Those FACTS mean nothing to you.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
The Spiritual Seed had natural fathers which broke the national covenant

Yes, and since the Spiritual seed's fathers are the physical seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob then that means that the Spiritual seed will also be the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Yes, and since the Spiritual seed's fathers are the physical seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob then that means that the Spiritual seed will also be the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The Promise is not made to Abraham and his physical descendant Israel, because they, Israel according to the flesh, they are not the children of God Rom 9:8. Sorry, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob can't produce spiritual descendants, and their natural descendants aren't eligible!
 

TweetyBird

New member
Yes, and since the Spiritual seed's fathers are the physical seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob then that means that the Spiritual seed will also be the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The physical and spiritual Seed is Christ Jesus. He is the promise according to Paul. He was an educated, Law studying Jewish man, who knew the Law and the Prophecies of the OT. He is the one who said it was Jesus as taught by Jesus Himself to Paul. The point of the promises to Israel was to be about Christ, who is the fulfillment of all things.

Gal 3
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.


12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.


26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Heb 3
7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9 when your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. 10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. 11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; 15 while it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. 16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. 17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Heb 4
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7 again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Heb 11
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 for he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Heb 12
22 but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Heb 13
12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. 13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. 14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.
 
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