I have heard that argument many times that Paul was unsaved when he wrote Romans 7:13-25. Its a dumb argument.
Paul loved the law because the law reveals the righteousness of God and Jesus was the law of God incarnate in human flesh.
The Imputed Righteousness of Christ Refutes Religion
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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I have heard that argument many times that Paul was unsaved when he wrote Romans 7:13-25. Its a dumb argument.
Paul loved the law because the law reveals the righteousness of God and Jesus was the law of God incarnate in human flesh.
Not that he was unsaved when he wrote it, but that he wrote about his unsaved state (before he wrote this). Or as a Christian the struggle he knew we all have but that the answer is Christ. Either way the answer is Christ. I think it is important to study this out.
The Christian has two natures, the nature of Christ and his old Adamic nature that is evil. Romans 7:13-25 is Paul's struggle with his old Adamic nature. Every Christian has this struggle because of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Yes, it is an allegory concerning law and grace.
You missed Paul's point that salvation is not by the keeping of the law. Paul was actually blameless in keeping the law. (Philippians 3:6)
Paul was righteous according to the law.
Here are the verses that may be relevant to your statement here. These verses may be referring to the Holy Spirit, in Romans prior to the passage you mentioned. Also, I don't know where you get that the Christian has two natures.
Romans 1:4 NASB - 4 who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,
Romans 2:29 NASB - 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
Romans 5:5 NASB - 5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Romans 7:6 NASB - 6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
Do you mean that I missed stating this? I know Paul rightly points out that salvation is in Jesus not in keeping the law, because none of us could or can keep the Law perfectly. Meaning, Jesus has done so, and we have salvation in Him.
It is implied in scripture that the Christians has two natures. Paul said, "Now it is no more I that do it , but sin the dwells in me (His old Adamic nature) Romans 7:17.
"For I know that in me (that is in my flesh) dwells no good thing (His old Adamic nature) for to will is present with me (the Holy Spirit) but how to perform that which is good I find not" Romans 7:18.
Can you see the struggle between the two natures?
I don't see the two natures you describe to begin with.
I understand that there is the flesh and sin and that there is living and walking by the Spirit, but I don't see this as two natures. If you began by the Spirit there is no being perfected by the flesh too... that is your own efforts to become good.
We should obey God. God knows what is best for us. God desires us to live holy lives. He desires us to be righteous, and do righteousness.
Epoisses
New member
Read this verse Jacob! We are not to serve God in the oldness of the letter of the Law or Torah which is what you push over and over and over.
Have you read Romans 8:1-4 NASB?
Epoisses
New member
Yes. The law of the Spirit is written in the heart and the law of sin and death is written in stone.
The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and of death. See Genesis and Romans 6:23 NASB.
You speak of the law of sin and of death and the letter as the Law.
What the Law could not do, weak as it was in the flesh, God did sending His Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin He condemned sin in the flesh that the righteous requirement of the Law would be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
By whom?
Ben Masada
New member
Yes, he did but in his mind only while serving sin in his flesh. If you do not understand what I am saying,
read Romans 7:25. He said that because he considered himself a special person who could live without the Law. So, he would relegate the Law to find its place only in his mind while he could continue living as he used to in the flesh. And mind you, he did not expect to be criticized for that because he had come to the conclusion that he could not quit living the way he used to.
Epoisses
New member
The ten commandments were written by God himself and then Moses smashed them to bits in a fit of rage. Object lesson?!?
And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses’ anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount. Ex. 32:19
Epoisses
New member
You despise Paul and I'm supposed to learn from you?
When are you going to learn the "self righteous" will try anyway. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Then why don't you?
Had God already spoken the covenant parameters?