The Imaginary Covenant of Grace

[intojoy]

There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol

I have a problem with this. Because this 2 covenant theory implies that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.

God has only saved anyone who has ever been saved by grace alone.

If this is not how the 2 covenant theory is supposed to be soteriologically understood then tell me what is meant by a covenant of law and a covenant of grace (that is found nowhere in scripture).

The bible doesn't need to spell out a covenant of grace because grace has always been the method of salvation.

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[intojoy]

Blood is in the water...just a matter of time til the Calvinists show up

 

[HisServant]

Blood is in the water...just a matter of time til the Calvinists show up

As a TULIP subscriber, I have no objection to your post.

 

[intojoy]

As a TULIP subscriber, I have no objection to your post.

Cool. I'm a Calvinist with a speech impediment I can only pronounce TUIP

 

[Squeaky]

GRACE -UNCILISITED MERCY-NEW TESTAMENT-THE LAW OF CHRIST
Eph 2:8
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:16-17
16 And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Acts 15:11
11 "But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they."
Acts 20:32
32 "So now, brethren, I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified.
Rom 1:5-6
5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name,
6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;
Rom 3:24
24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 4:16
16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
Rom 5:1-2
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 5:15
15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.
Gal 3:16
16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ.
Rom 5:17-20
17 For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,
Rom 5:21
21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
John 15:14
14 "You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.
I Jn 2:4
4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
I Jn 2:3
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
I Jn 5:3
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
(NKJ)
xxxGrace is uncilisted mercy. Grace is a new way thought up by God, we dont deserve it, we have not earned it, we didnt even think of it but God gave it to us-a new way the new testament. God looked down on us and said them dummies arent getting it I have to think of a new way. The new testament is our Grace. Now within the new testament there are commandments. Jesus brought us the new testament, this is how Grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. Not knowing what the gift of grace was, so many are useing grace as an excuse to sin. Grace is not a way to justify sin, it is a better way to get rid of sin.

John 15:13-14
13 "Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.
14 "You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.
(NKJ)

Gal 6:2
2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
(NKJ)

John 15:10
10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
(NKJ)

God didnt do away with the idea of what He says is law, He just changed the law. And only for those who have faith in the new law.

Heb 7:12
12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.
(NKJ)


1 Cor 15:9-11
9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.
(NKJ)

Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
(NKJ)

Titus 2:11-13
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,
13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
(NKJ)

Rom 5:16
16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification.
(NKJ)

 

[nikolai_42]

There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol

I have a problem with this. Because this 2 covenant theory implies that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.

God has only saved anyone who has ever been saved by grace alone.

If this is not how the 2 covenant theory is supposed to be soteriologically understood then tell me what is meant by a covenant of law and a covenant of grace (that is found nowhere in scripture).

The bible doesn't need to spell out a covenant of grace because grace has always been the method of salvation.

God has made many covenants - or at least signified His covenants in different ways. We read of the covenant of circumcision (Genesis 17:7-14), the covenant of the sabbath (Exodus 31:16) and the covenant that most are familiar with - the ten commandments (Exodus 34:28). Now, God also speaks of the "blood of the covenant" in regards to Moses (Exodus 24:5-8). The blood of the covenant was repeated over and over again because it couldn't take away sin (Hebrews 10:4). The covenants signified by circumcision and the sabbath are spoken of by Paul as not enforced - not the means of salvation. They were all works-based and hearken back to the old covenant(primarily Colossians 2:16 and Galatians 5:2-3). Leviticus 18 deals with Israel staying away from the detestable practices of the surrounding nations. And specifically, Leviticus 18:5 says a man will live if he obeys what God commands. And those commands were summarized in the ten commandments.

And, of course, smack in the middle of this (the old and its supercession) is the New Covenant.

And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Matthew 26:27-28

And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.
And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
Mark 14:23-24

And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
Luke 22:19-20

Which all is hinted at here :

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jeremiah 31:31-33

For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:12-13

The old covenant was broken by Israel, and the new covenant was God working in them to make them His.

So it is clearly established that :

1. There are at least two significant covenants between God and Israel
2. That Israel broke the first covenant by disobeying God
3. That the old covenant was superceded by a new covenant in the blood of Christ (since the blood of bulls and goats could never take away sin)
4. That the new covenant was unilaterally God's work in man

The only ambiguity (that I see, anyway) is if the Old Covenant was explicitly for salvation by works. Since Abraham was credited with faith, we can say that at least there were some who surpassed that strictly legal requirement. But it was by faith and it always has been by faith. But that doesn't invalidate the covenant that God made - if indeed it was salvation by works then the fact that no one could fulfill it only serves to show God's Sovereignty in bringing about the second (which He really did before the world was - thus Abraham could be justified by faith since Christ hadn't appeared yet).

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Acts 17:30-31

The Old Covenant is not the standard by which any will be judged. They will all be judged by Christ - in the new covenant.

Now....that all seems a little too straightforward to me. So I suspect I've missed at least part of your point. Or maybe just wrong....?

 

[beloved57]

The Imaginary Covenant of Grace

Its nothing imaginary about it, its the Everlasting Covenat Heb 13:20 which was Established in Christ Jesus, the Mediator of the Covenant before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

 

[intojoy]

God has made many covenants - or at least signified His covenants in different ways. We read of the covenant of circumcision (Genesis 17:7-14), the covenant of the sabbath (Exodus 31:16) and the covenant that most are familiar with - the ten commandments (Exodus 34:28). Now, God also speaks of the "blood of the covenant" in regards to Moses (Exodus 24:5-8). The blood of the covenant was repeated over and over again because it couldn't take away sin (Hebrews 10:4). The covenants signified by circumcision and the sabbath are spoken of by Paul as not enforced - not the means of salvation. They were all works-based and hearken back to the old covenant(primarily Colossians 2:16 and Galatians 5:2-3). Leviticus 18 deals with Israel staying away from the detestable practices of the surrounding nations. And specifically, Leviticus 18:5 says a man will live if he obeys what God commands. And those commands were summarized in the ten commandments.

And, of course, smack in the middle of this (the old and its supercession) is the New Covenant.

And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Matthew 26:27-28

And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.
And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
Mark 14:23-24

And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
Luke 22:19-20




Now....that all seems a little too straightforward to me. So I suspect I've missed at least part of your point. Or maybe just wrong....?

Thanks.

I don't see the covenants as "many covenants" just 8.

Edenic Adamic Noahic Abrahamic Land Mosaic Davidic and New.

But I like the passages you shared.

Salvation was by grace with Adam. Adam hid himself and was sought after by God. Was there a Covenant of Grace made with Adam? If there was it wasn't spelled out. The blood of the animals became a covering for Adam. At least their skins covered him. The proto-evangelion was given in Gen 3. Did I spell that right?

I believe one valid option of rightly dividing the word is thru the 8 covenants. So of course having "many covenants" or a covenant of grace that is never made throws a wrench in that machine.

What I mean by not being spelled out is I don't find in the bible a place where God tells man he is saved by grace via a covenant or contract. The truth of this grace salvation is taught throughout the bible beginning with Adam and emphasized by the writers of scripture but no God - Man covenant is recorded. I agree that the New Covenant was made with Yeshua's blood but it says that the New Covenant would be different from the old one that was added to the other covenant, the Mosaic Covenant added to the Abrahamic Covenant.

The confusing thing about the two covenant theory is in the soteriology. Tell me, please where I am misguided in my observation concerning this. Perhaps only some extremes of 2 Cov theology are guilty of my perception of their belief?

 

[nikolai_42]

Thanks.

I don't see the covenants as "many covenants" just 8.

Edenic Adamic Noahic Abrahamic Land Mosaic Davidic and New.

But I like the passages you shared.

Salvation was by grace with Adam. Adam hid himself and was sought after by God. Was there a Covenant of Grace made with Adam? If there was it wasn't spelled out. The blood of the animals became a covering for Adam. At least their skins covered him. The proto-evangelion was given in Gen 3. Did I spell that right?

I believe one valid option of rightly dividing the word is thru the 8 covenants. So of course having "many covenants" or a covenant of grace that is never made throws a wrench in that machine.

What I mean by not being spelled out is I don't find in the bible a place where God tells man he is saved by grace via a covenant or contract. The truth of this grace salvation is taught throughout the bible beginning with Adam and emphasized by the writers of scripture but no God - Man covenant is recorded. I agree that the New Covenant was made with Yeshua's blood but it says that the New Covenant would be different from the old one that was added to the other covenant, the Mosaic Covenant added to the Abrahamic Covenant.

The confusing thing about the two covenant theory is in the soteriology. Tell me, please where I am misguided in my observation concerning this. Perhaps only some extremes of 2 Cov theology are guilty of my perception of their belief?

I don't know that I'm going to be any help when it comes to those labels. When I think of 2 Covenant theories, my mind typically fixes on the sort espoused by the likes of Hagee (Jews are still under a different covenant, evangelizing a Jew can be sin etc...) which I think is very serious error indeed. I don't honestly know if I would be considered a "2 Covenant" man in the strict sense. I just know that I see two things at work where one was fading away and the other was instituted. Formally, that is.

And that might be the issue in your thinking. Just from what you write, I would say that you are right. That Grace always saved. But I would also say that the Testament in Christ's blood is the covenant of Grace. The only one. Right from Genesis 3:16 we see God speaking of it - though only indirectly. Abraham saw it and rejoiced. But there were types and shadows in the way of the real thing that was instituted (in an eternal sense) even before Adam sinned. Those types and shadows - called "the times of ignorance" in Acts 17:30 - darkened natural man's understanding. And until Christ was revealed to the world, God "winked" at that ignorance. That's why Abraham's faith was so significant. It was in something not to be revealed for hundreds of years and not even to be realized by him in his natural life! As a slight aside, I think that's why Jesus kept telling people who He healed not to tell anyone - because He wanted His fame to be limited to Israel for as long as possible. Once the Greeks got word of Him and visited Him, He immediately said His time had come (John 12:19-23). The longer the word was kept local to Israel, the longer (in theory) His ministry on earth would have lasted.

All that is to say that I believe you are right to a point. Nowhere is Grace openly instituted in covenant - until Christ appears. But because we have hindsight, we see that that Grace was in effect from the beginning of the world and so available to everyone from Adam on down. That it wasn't formalized in terms of a covenant, doesn't mean God didn't operate on those terms with those who, like Abraham, came to Him in faith.

At least that's my take on it...

 

[intojoy]

Well I agree with everything you said. But questions arose in my mind when you mentioned the limited ministry of Yeshua to Israel, when you said that He asked those He healed not to tell anyone. I believe I was taught that only post healing of the mute demoniac was this policy of silence instituted. This is where the understanding of the specific covenants is valuable for me. Particularly where as you stated rightly that Abraham never physically realized the covenant of Yeshua's blood. I agree that this can be seen as the covenant of grace if it can be proven to be one in the same with the New Covenant if jer 31. But for that to be the case (and I think it can be married to that covenant), it requires a full understanding of the unconditional and eternal nature of Abe's covenant and more importantly why there was the need to add to that covenant the 613 laws of the Mosaic covenant. Because in order for jer 31 to be called the covenant of grace the literal physical realization of that promise to Israel must come to pass.

It will come to pass and it will be because of God's grace that all Israel shall be saved.

I do have much to learn and I thank you for the help.

 

[intojoy]

I hope I'm not giving you a head ache

 

[Brother Ducky]

There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol

I have a problem with this. Because this 2 covenant theory implies that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.

God has only saved anyone who has ever been saved by grace alone.

If this is not how the 2 covenant theory is supposed to be soteriologically understood then tell me what is meant by a covenant of law and a covenant of grace (that is found nowhere in scripture).

The bible doesn't need to spell out a covenant of grace because grace has always been the method of salvation.

For what it is worth. From the Westminster Confession of Faith:
CHAPTER 7



Of God’s Covenant with Man.


I. The distance between God and the creature is so great, that although reasonable creatures do owe obedience unto him as their Creator, yet they could never have any fruition of him as their blessedness and reward, but by some voluntary condescension on God’s part, which he hath been pleased to express by way of covenant.a


a Isa. 40:13-17; Job. 9:32,33; 1 Sam. 2:25; Ps. 113:5,6; Ps. 100:2,3; Job. 22:2,3; Job 35:7,8; Luke 17:10; Acts 17:24,25.


II. The first covenant made with man was a covenant of works,b wherein life was promised to Adam, and in him to his posterity,c upon condition of perfect and personal obedience.d


b Gal. 3:12.
c Rom. 10:5, Rom. 5:12-20.
d Gen. 2:17; Gal. 3:10.


III. Man by his fall having made himself incapable of life by that covenant, the Lord was pleased to make a second,e commonly called the Covenant of Grace: whereby he freely offereth unto sinners life and salvation by Jesus Christ, requiring of them faith in him, that they may be saved;f and promising to give unto all those that are ordained unto life his Holy Spirit, to make them willing and able to believe.g


e Gal. 3:21; Rom. 8:3; Rom. 3:20,21; Gen. 3:15; Isa. 42:6.
f Mark 16:15,16; John 3:16; Rom. 10:6,9; Gal. 3:11.
g Ezek. 36:26,27; John 6:44,45.


IV. This covenant of grace is frequently set forth in the scripture by the name of a Testament, in reference to the death of Jesus Christ the testator, and to the everlasting inheritance, with all things belonging to it, therein bequeathed.h


h Heb. 9:15-17; Heb. 7:22; Luke 22:20; 1 Cor. 11:25.


V. This covenant was differently administered in the time of the law, and in the time of the gospel;i under the law it was administered by promises, prophecies, sacrifices, circumcision, the paschal lamb, and other types and ordinances delivered to the people of the Jews, all foresignifying Christ to come,k which were for that time sufficient and efficacious, through the operation of the spirit, to instruct and build up the elect in faith in the promised Messiah,l by whom they had full remission of sins, and eternal salvation; and is called, the Old Testament.m


i 2 Cor. 3:6-9.
k Heb. chap. 8 to 10; Rom. 4:11; Col. 2:11,12; 1 Cor. 5:7.
l 1 Cor. 10:1-4; Heb. 11:13; John 8:56.
m Gal. 3:7-9,14.


VI. Under the gospel, when Christ the substancen was exhibited, the ordinances in which this covenant is dispensed are the preaching of the word, and the administration of the sacraments of Baptism and the Lord’s Supper,o which, though fewer in number, and administered with more simplicity and less outward glory, yet, in them it is held forth in more fulness, evidence, and spiritual efficacy,p to all nations, both Jews and Gentiles;q and is called the New Testament.r There are not therefore two covenants of grace differing in substance, but one and the same under various dispensations.s


n Col. 2:17.
o Matt. 28:19,20; 1 Cor. 11:23-25.
p Heb. 12:22-28; Jer. 31:33,34.
q Matt. 28:19; Eph. 2:15-19.
r Luke 22:20.
s Gal. 3:14,16; Rom 3:21-23,30; Ps. 32:1 with Rom. 4:3,6,16,17,23,24; Heb. 13:8; Acts 15:11.

 

[intojoy]

Why would the Edenic covenant be a covenant of works?

And if it were a covenant of works meaning salvation by works then why was Adam forgiven?

 

[tomlapalm]

People are incorrectly interchanging Covenant and Dispensation.

 

[Mr. 5020]

There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol

I have a problem with this. Because this 2 covenant theory implies that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.

God has only saved anyone who has ever been saved by grace alone.

If this is not how the 2 covenant theory is supposed to be soteriologically understood then tell me what is meant by a covenant of law and a covenant of grace (that is found nowhere in scripture).

The bible doesn't need to spell out a covenant of grace because grace has always been the method of salvation.

Indeed. Genesis 15:6

 

[wordsponge]

There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol

I have a problem with this. Because this 2 covenant theory implies that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.

God has only saved anyone who has ever been saved by grace alone.

If this is not how the 2 covenant theory is supposed to be soteriologically understood then tell me what is meant by a covenant of law and a covenant of grace (that is found nowhere in scripture).

The bible doesn't need to spell out a covenant of grace because grace has always been the method of salvation.

***
Only Jews ignore the the 2nd Covenant and call it Christian propaganda.
Now Jews call themselves messianics and remain under the law...

They never baptize calling on Jesus.

The Spirit LED cannot be deceived..

 

[intojoy]

***

Only Jews ignore the the 2nd Covenant and call it Christian propaganda.

Now Jews call themselves messianics and remain under the law...



They never baptize calling on Jesus.



The Spirit LED cannot be deceived..

Actually there are now Torah observant Messianics. I'm not one of them but they exist.

 

[Ben Masada]

There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol

I have a problem with this. Because this 2 covenant theory implies that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.

God has only saved anyone who has ever been saved by grace alone.

If this is not how the 2 covenant theory is supposed to be soteriologically understood then tell me what is meant by a covenant of law and a covenant of grace (that is found nowhere in scripture).

The bible doesn't need to spell out a covenant of grace because grace has always been the method of salvation.

Tell me Intojoy, what is the difference between being saved by grace and being saved by obedience to the Law? Evidences abound that to be saved by obedience to the Law we can verify it in the every-day life as we live in society. But to be saved by grace, believe me, I have no convincing evidence to prove it as a fact.

According to the gospel of Paul in Romans 7:25 I have found that in Christ he could serve God's Law in spirit and the law of sin in the flesh and still be approved. But in the daily living we cannot test that Pauline position before a judge because we will be in big trouble. So, what's you answer to my question above?

 

[intojoy]

First this presupposes I am a sinner by nature and that I was born spiritually sinful.

If I use the Law to receive forgiveness I am paying for my own debt. My salvation is on my own shoulders.

I believe that God's standard for righteousness is not attainable thus although my adherence to a Law as holy and righteous as the Torah is well intended, the fact that I could not perfectly keep every one of its 613 commands requires that God provide some grace to me.

Adam sinned and he hid himself. Adam did not repent nor did he seek God but rather he hid himself.

David hid his adultery with Bathsheba with the greater sin of murder, he too did not repent but God sought him out to give mercy and grace to him.

By being forgiven apart from obeying the Law I am allowing my debt to be paid for by God in the same way Adam and David did.
I did not seek after God but rather the message from God of a Jewish Messiah was given to my ears and I was saved.

 

[Brother Ducky]

Why would the Edenic covenant be a covenant of works?

And if it were a covenant of works meaning salvation by works then why was Adam forgiven?

I am not sure that "salvation by works" would have the same meaning for pre-fall Adam as it would mean for us. For us, the idea is doing stuff under our own power so that God looks favorably on us and eventually takes us to heaven. For Adam, the idea seems to be more in the line of obedience to God and part of that obedience is the doing of stuff [Gen 2:15] or works. Adam would never have been saved by the doing of anything, he had not yet fallen.

Adam's forgiveness does not rest on his works because he would need to be forgiven and saved on the same basis as the rest of us -- Christ Jesus. He has saved in the same manner as the rest of us, by grave through faith on the basis of the death of Jesus.