The Imaginary Covenant of Grace

[beloved57]

In what way did Adam obey unto salvation? Because he hid himself rather than obeyed God's voice.

Adam was Saved like everyone else who is saved, by the obedience of one, Christ Rom 5:19 ! Man has never been saved by his own obedience!

 

[Hawkins]

There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol

I have a problem with this. Because this 2 covenant theory implies that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.

God has only saved anyone who has ever been saved by grace alone.

If this is not how the 2 covenant theory is supposed to be soteriologically understood then tell me what is meant by a covenant of law and a covenant of grace (that is found nowhere in scripture).

The bible doesn't need to spell out a covenant of grace because grace has always been the method of salvation.

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You get it wrong.

The OT basically says that if you abide by the Law to a standard set by God, you will be saved by His Grace.

The NT says that since you lost your capability in abiding any Law that you deliver your faith instead such that God will save you by His Grace.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

That was easy. Covenant of Works = salvation by works.

Covenant of Works = Covenant of Life

If you want to call it "salvation" you need to point to someone being lost in need of saving. Adam was created upright, and mutable, possessing the ability to sin or not to sin, having no sin in his nature. Thus Adam had to be turned from such to engage in sin, which the devil enticed him to do in eating the forbidden fruit. So before this sin of Adam there was nothing for him to be "saved" from, for he was not "lost". All he had to do was obey and live. Hence, Covenant of Life is a rightly used phrase for the Covenant of Works.

Suggest you do some studying:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006T4CZXQ

http://www.monergism.com/economy-covenants-between-god-and-man-ebook
{note: you may have to refresh web page if it does not come up immediately}

AMR

 

[intojoy]

Covenant of Works = Covenant of Life

If you want to call it "salvation" you need to point to someone being lost in need of saving. Adam was created upright, and mutable, possessing the ability to sin or not to sin, having no sin in his nature. Thus Adam had to be turned from such to engage in sin, which the devil enticed him to do in eating the forbidden fruit. So before this sin of Adam there was nothing for him to be "saved" from, for he was not "lost". All he had to do was obey and live. Hence, Covenant of Life is a rightly used phrase for the Covenant of Works.

Suggest you do some studying:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006T4CZXQ

http://www.monergism.com/economy-covenants-between-god-and-man-ebook
{note: you may have to refresh web page if it does not come up immediately}

AMR

I'm not gonna study that. It's clear now thanks!

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Then why waste time asking this or that if your agenda is but to hold to your own odd views? Is ther purpose of this thread but for you to talk to yourself? :idunno:

AMR

 

[intojoy]

Then why waste time asking this or that if your agenda is but to hold to your own odd views? Is ther purpose of this thread but for you to talk to yourself? :idunno:

AMR

I didn't call it a waste of your time, you did.
I understand your view. It's wrong. But you can think that as you do. I'm not threatened by the error. I know that there are 8 covenants in scripture. Each with a set of commandments but none with a prerequisite of personal righteousness for salvation.

Adam believed God. There was no requirement in order for Adam to keep himself alive anymore than for us to keep ourselves saved by personal holiness. If we read what scripture says it is clear that God intervened in order to prevent Adam from eating of the tree of life.

 

[intojoy]

I'm not gonna study that. It's clear now thanks!

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong

Great line


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[intojoy]

There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol

I have a problem with this. Because this 2 covenant theory implies that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.

God has only saved anyone who has ever been saved by grace alone.

If this is not how the 2 covenant theory is supposed to be soteriologically understood then tell me what is meant by a covenant of law and a covenant of grace (that is found nowhere in scripture).

The bible doesn't need to spell out a covenant of grace because grace has always been the method of salvation.

See Avatar

This needs another looksy


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[intojoy]

There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol

I have a problem with this. Because this 2 covenant theory implies that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.

God has only saved anyone who has ever been saved by grace alone.

If this is not how the 2 covenant theory is supposed to be soteriologically understood then tell me what is meant by a covenant of law and a covenant of grace (that is found nowhere in scripture).

The bible doesn't need to spell out a covenant of grace because grace has always been the method of salvation.

See Avatar

Bump


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[way 2 go]

Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol

2 covenants

Mat 26:28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

and

Gen 17:5 No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham, for I have made you the father of a multitude of nations.
Gen 17:6 I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make you into nations, and kings shall come from you.
Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you.

bloodshed and covenant confirmed each time the
work of circumcision is done.

Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your offspring after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised.

I have a problem with this. Because this 2 covenant theory implies that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.

circumcision was necessary
Moses once thought like you and didn't circumcise his son

Exo 4:24 At a lodging place on the way the LORD met him{Moses} and sought to put him to death.
Exo 4:25 Then Zipporah took a flint and cut off her son's foreskin and touched Moses' feet with it and said, "Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me!"

God has only saved anyone who has ever been saved by grace alone.

always with grace but not by grace alone, till now, for now.

 

[intojoy]

There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol

I have a problem with this. Because this 2 covenant theory implies that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.

God has only saved anyone who has ever been saved by grace alone.

If this is not how the 2 covenant theory is supposed to be soteriologically understood then tell me what is meant by a covenant of law and a covenant of grace (that is found nowhere in scripture).

The bible doesn't need to spell out a covenant of grace because grace has always been the method of salvation.

See Avatar

Amensky

 

[Jerry Shugart]

always with grace but not by grace alone, till now, for now.

Not by grace alone? The only thing that is compatible with salvation on the principle of "grace" is faith.

What else do you have in mind?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The OT basically says that if you abide by the Law to a standard set by God, you will be saved by His Grace.

What is that "standard" which is found in the OT?

I can't imagine since "grace" and "works" are mutually exclusive:

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:4).​

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph.2:8-9).​

In the OT we read this about Abraham:

"And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness" (Gen.15:6).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The bible doesn't need to spell out a covenant of grace because grace has always been the method of salvation.

EXACTLY!

 

[musterion]

Grace has always been God's method of salvation.

Is it correct to say that grace has always been His means of salvation?

 

[intojoy]

There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol

I have a problem with this. Because this 2 covenant theory implies that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.

God has only saved anyone who has ever been saved by grace alone.

If this is not how the 2 covenant theory is supposed to be soteriologically understood then tell me what is meant by a covenant of law and a covenant of grace (that is found nowhere in scripture).

The bible doesn't need to spell out a covenant of grace because grace has always been the method of salvation.

See Avatar

Too good to let die


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[way 2 go]

There is a misguided idea out there that God has two Covenants, one being the Law and the other being the imaginary Covenant of Grace found nowhere in scripture. Lol

2 covenants

Mat 26:28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

and

Gen 17:5 No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham, for I have made you the father of a multitude of nations.
Gen 17:6 I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make you into nations, and kings shall come from you.
Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you.

bloodshed and covenant confirmed each time the
work of circumcision is done.

Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your offspring after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised.

I have a problem with this. Because this 2 covenant theory implies that God saved people by works in one part of the history of mankind and now God saves people by grace.

circumcision was necessary
Moses once thought like you and didn't circumcise his son

Exo 4:24 At a lodging place on the way the LORD met him{Moses} and sought to put him to death.
Exo 4:25 Then Zipporah took a flint and cut off her son's foreskin and touched Moses' feet with it and said, "Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me!"