The Historical Jesus Never Existed

[patrick jane]

(and I do believe Paul teaches the same since the day he was caught up to Paradise, [it was his twin Baal in the third heaven speaking things unlawful for an anthropos-man-faced to utter]).

So you're saying that when Paul said he knew a man caught up to the third heaven it was his twin Baal? Seems far fetched

 

[patrick jane]

but there are NO OT scriptures that specifically or clearly teach that Messiah will do such. Is this the case?

Yes there are OT scriptures that prophesy Jesus Christ's DBR - Go find them you lazy bum. If you spent as much time in the Holy Bible as you do "researching" videos and the power of your own soul, you would know that. All you do is doubt God's word like a fool -

 

[Crucible]

Paul claims that Jesus died for our sins 'according to the scriptures' and was raised on the 3rd day 'according to the scriptures',...but there are NO OT scriptures that specifically or clearly teach that Messiah will do such.

:AMR:

The Book of Isaiah is largely prophesy concerning Christ seven centuries before his coming.

Isaiah 53:5
But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed.

 

[Zeke]

Yes there are OT scriptures that prophesy Jesus Christ's DBR - Go find them you lazy bum. If you spent as much time in the Holy Bible as you do "researching" videos and the power of your own soul, you would know that. All you do is doubt God's word like a fool -

Yet it has killed you're ability to discern the basics about spiritual revelation 2Cor 3:6, Matt 11:11, Luke 17:20-21, Galatians 4:24, And we have studied the Bible for years you bigoted clown who serves two master.

 

[Zeke]

He is looking in the wrong places for the resurrection and likely for the same reasons the various endings of Mark were added, subtracted, rewritten, supplemented, and reinserted over time, (following Mark 16:8). But he also made a mistake concerning Mark 16:1-8 by leaving out the critical account of the neaniskos-young man, and by stating that the women never entered the tomb, for those things are in the original text. Anyhow, again, he is looking in the wrong places for the anastasis-resurrection. Why do you suppose the following statement is made?

Acts 1:21-22
21 It is therefore necessary that of the men who have been with us all the time that the Master Yeshua went in and out among us:
22 beginning from the immersion of Yohanan to that day when he was taken up from us, that one of these should become a witness with us of his resurrection.

Why do they need one who was with them all the time beginning from the immersion of Yohanan if the purpose for choosing another was to be a witness of his resurrection? It is because all of the time they spent with the Master they were witnessing a resurrection in the way that Yeshua teaches the resurrection. From the record of Yohanan anyone who stands against the beast refusing to bow the knee to Baal must be slain, (Rev 13:15-18). Anyone who is not slain therefore is overcome by the beast and the devil through fear of death because he was not willing to lay down his own soul in the high places of the field. Only those who are willing to die for the truth in that hour will overcome; and for overcoming, they die, and yet live. And if they die in Messiah, and yet live, then they rule and reign with Messiah for at least a day, (for one day beside the Father with the Son may as well be a thousand years).

Mark 1:12-13
12 And immediately the Spirit ejected him into the desert.
13 And he was in the desert forty days, tempted under the Satan, and was with the θηριων-beasts, [Hosea 13:7-11, Daniel 7:1-14, Rev 13:1-18] and the Angels ministered unto him.

There was no way death could hold him because he had overcome and the flesh profits nothing to the one truly born from above. The physical death of the body counts for nothing to such a one, being in Messiah: for they cannot die any more because they are isangeloi, and are sons of Elohim, being sons of the resurrection. Therefore these things must occur before one sheds the carcass for good, (and I do believe Paul teaches the same since the day he was caught up to Paradise, [it was his twin Baal in the third heaven speaking things unlawful for an anthropos-man-faced to utter]).

You must think it was a historical event then instead of an inward resurrection?

 

[Zeke]

Just to touch on a few things from the video presentation above -

1) Paul claims that Jesus died for our sins 'according to the scriptures' and was raised on the 3rd day 'according to the scriptures',...but there are NO OT scriptures that specifically or clearly teach that Messiah will do such. Is this the case? Many like to tout their doctrine being 'according to the scriptures'....just like any can claim their 'doctrine' is 'biblical'

2) We note that in some of the oldest manuscripts copies the gospel of Mark does not contain any resurrection appearance account, since ch. 16 ends at verse 8. Perhaps there was some embellishments or development on the resurrection story provided to 'fill in the gaps'? - hence some 'endings' were created, at least a 'long' and a 'short' one,....pick your cherry

The only reason I post these videos is to show that the spirit of this worlds religions have no harmony concerning the Divine message for all, When Paul teaches about the gifts etc..then adds a little caveat called the more excellent "WAY" then one should ponder those few verses and weigh them against all religious dogmas that teach egocentric exclusion from others over some letters in a book no one can agree on, that alone shows the Divine isn't behind most of it or harmony would prevail seeing it would come from the same Spirit that has no more need of theological traditions of men or their history.

 

[Zeke]

Bill has a gentle spirit never names calls when attacked by traditional christian's.

 

[KingdomRose]

To keep from derailing another thread. No serious scholar or academic questions the historicity of the person of Jesus Christ. The video is wrong, there are about 10 other sources that mention the Lord Jesus Christ. Even the Quran speaks of His actual existence. Zeke, you are paying attention to men with no credibility. That is the elephant in the room. It is television mockumentary for $$$ and fame. Some of these guys might be as persuaded by this nonsense as you are - they are nothing new, and not at all novel. They die off or fade away because nobody pays attention to conspiracy theorists on 'how' something might/could/perhaps happen. It is un-academic conjecture.

The short of it: Don't listen to gossip and never believe it. Exodus 23:1 Proverbs 16:28 Proverbs 26:20 1 Timothy 5:13 Titus 3:1-3

There has never been any doubt amongst reasonable people that Jesus Christ existed. There is indeed extra-Biblical evidence for Jesus' existence, and one ancient historian that believed he existed was Tacitus. He was a Roman senator & orator...arguably "the best of Roman historians" (Biblical Archaeology Review, Jan/Feb, 2015). His last major work was titled Annals, written c. 116-117 A.D. He hated Christians, so why would he make them up, or their leader? He wrote (in Latin):

"The founder of the name, 'Christ,' had been executed in the reign of Tiberius by the procurator Pontius Pilate... Suppressed for a time, the deadly superstition erupted again not only in Judea, the origin of this evil, but also in the city [Rome], where all things horrible and shameful from everywhere come together and become popular." (Biblical Archaeology Review, Jan/Feb 2015, p.46)

If Jesus of Nazareth had not existed, Tacitus surely would not have written the above. As scholars say, "he was at the top of his game as a historian and never given to careless writing." This is just one channel of information that shows that reputable people back in the first century believed that Jesus existed.


:think:

 

[KingdomRose]

The historic doesn't have much to go on except generations of religious dogma that was just assumed to be trust worthy, The fraud that had to happen for the carnal Christ theory to be pushed is just one area where the foundation is made of mostly sand, the stories where never meant to carnalized except to teach with, which is what an allegorical/figurative/type/similitude/etc........are used for to point the searcher inwardly Luke 17:20-21, being a fundy type for years I just excepted the religious institutions version of what happened as historic fact when its far from it when the religious veil of fear and hate is removed the carnal spirit behind the carnal christ is exposed for what it is a fraud that excludes like all sect/clubs do 2Cor 3:6.

What good is a "teaching" story if it includes bold-faced lies? Are you suggesting that the whole story of Jesus is a mere "teaching tool," so to speak, and that it is not fact? Therefore it's a bunch of lies. What kind of teaching does a lie facilitate?

 

[KingdomRose]

Her ya go Lon a scholar saying the same thing and I think his qualifications even surpass you're theological prowess.

I wouldn't even waste my time listening to this guy.

 

[daqq]

So you're saying that when Paul said he knew a man caught up to the third heaven it was his twin Baal? Seems far fetched

If you truly love God, you'll see.

 

[daqq]

You must think it was a historical event then instead of an inward resurrection?

Yes, Yohanan was a real man who met the Word.

 

[Zeke]

I wouldn't even waste my time listening to this guy.

Nor he you anymore, The teachings have more relevance in the allegorical and symbolic meaning than the literal historic version that is foolishness, the actual blood letting of another for so called sins by the lower nature that is acting naturally is absurd and religious mind games that deal with a temporal persona living a fiction based existence, and stuck in mortal combat with its self from this worlds programming based on gender/nationalistic/race/religions/governmentalist and it will perish as the Divine nature leavens the conscience do you known the mind of the Divine will Romans 11:33-35, I suggest it is found in the more excellent way 1Cor 13:1-13..

 

[Zeke]

Yes, Yohanan was a real man who met the Word.

Yet that didn't just happen at the beginning of the last age, the spirit has been working in man since the Divine sent them down here, no one returns unless they have come from the Divine in the first place Galatians 4:26-28, who put eternity in mans heart from the beginning.

We are like Isaac in what way? through spiritual birth not a historic man born by a woman past her child bearing age which is more foolishness pushed by tradition Galatians 4:24, but that's my discernment everyone has the right to see it on their own level.

 

[Zeke]

What good is a "teaching" story if it includes bold-faced lies? Are you suggesting that the whole story of Jesus is a mere "teaching tool," so to speak, and that it is not fact? Therefore it's a bunch of lies. What kind of teaching does a lie facilitate?

It's spiritual fact which is far more important than carnal facts that you have bought hook line and sinker 2Cor 3:6.

 

[daqq]

Yet that didn't just happen at the beginning of the last age, the spirit has been working in man since the Divine sent them down here, no one returns unless they have come from the Divine in the first place Galatians 4:26-28, who put eternity in mans heart from the beginning.

We are like Isaac in what way? through spiritual birth not a historic man born by a woman past her child bearing age which is more foolishness pushed by tradition Galatians 4:24, but that's my discernment everyone has the right to see it on their own level.

That is why Yohanan is the greatest of men having been born of women, (the Levitical priesthood are nashiym born of nashiym), for he has all of the writings in him and therefore the fathers and Moshe. Still yet one cannot understand the wealth of the body of the "block letter" scripture without the spark of the Spirit of the Word who is Meshiah YHWH. Yohanan is not merely Yohanan and was not so young as most would like to think: his transformation begins when he is first cut off between the naos and the altar, (for the heart is the altar and the naos is in some cases, such as this, likened to the mind). Therefore Yeshua condemns the same generation which slew him first and foremost between the altar and the house, (when his name was ZekarYah ben BrekYah). Just as Paul he then went into the desert, his voice having been cut off, (a slaying), and counted all those things as refuse so as to gain Messiah. Remember that every true kohen is one hundred percent Leviy and one hundred percent Yhudiy because the mother of all the sons of Ahron is Elisheba/Elizabeth, sister of Nahshon, prince of tribe Yhudah.

 

[freelight]

subjective conscious and the historicity of Jesus.....

subjective conscious and the historicity of Jesus.....

Robert Price in this presentation does not deny that a historical Jesus existed, but looks at the historic evidence available and lack thereof that makes the mythical aspects of the story's development more probabilistic, since other evidences are lacking. So we see in some religious myths, even if using historical figures or story-themes (or combinations thereof), it kind of takes on a life of its own. We see this in the development of Christian theology/Christology, etc.

 

[daqq]

:AMR:

The Book of Isaiah is largely prophesy concerning Christ seven centuries before his coming.

When Yohanan returned from the desert he was no more himself and was not even recognizable because all of his Nazarite hair was shaved off by "the Assyrian", (for he was a very hairy man like Eliyahu). Yeshayahu-Isaiah foretells these things also. In the Syrian tradition there was indeed holy fire upon the waters of the Yarden River at (one of) the immersion(s).

Tzaddokim 9:17-37
[17] Moreover in those days came Yohanan the Immerser, preaching in the desert of Yhudah, and saying:
[18] Repent, change your hearts, for the kingdom of the heavens is at hand!
[19] For this is he of whom it is spoken by way of haNavi Yeshayahu, saying:
[20] Kol Kore: Voice of a Cryer in the desert, Prepare yourselves the Way of YHWH, make yourselves straight His paths.
[21] And Yohanan himself was cast about in a most humble attire; for his raiment was of camel hair, and he had a pouch of skins about his hips like Enosh.
[22] Furthermore he put shed animal hair about his body wherever it was not covered with his own hair, for he was moreover an hairy man, like Eliyahu:
[23] And in countenance he was like a wild man; for the visage of his face could not be discerned for the length of the Nazarite hair of his head.
[24] And he came preaching to the Yhudim, offering true freedom, saying:
[25] Elohim has sent me to show you the Way of the Torah, by which you shall be freed from these tyrants: and no mortal shall rule over you, but only the Most High who has sent me.
[26] And when the people heard this message they rejoiced.
[27] Moreover he did nothing else but to proclaim the kingdom of Elohim and immerse them in the stream of Yarden, and let them go, warning them that they should renounce all evil deeds:
[28] And that soon enough they would be given a king who would free them, and put into subjection all the wicked; but that same king himself would be subject to no one else but the King Most High above him.
[29] And they brought him before Archelaus, and when the doctors of the Torah had assembled, they asked him who he was and where he had been until then.
[30] And he answered, saying, I am an Enosh, and as such has the Spirit of Elohim has called me; and I live on treetop dew and wild honey from the field.
[31] But when they threatened to torture him if he did not desist from his words and deeds, he answered, saying, It is needful rather for you to desist from your shameful works and to submit to YHWH your Elohim.
[32] And Shimon, a scribe, rose up in anger, saying, We read the divine scrolls every day: but you, only now having come forth like a wild beast from the woods, you dare teach us and lead the multitudes astray with your accursed speeches?
[33] And the scribe launched himself forward to rend his cloak, but the Immerser stood unflinching, and in reproach he said to them:
[34] I will not reveal to you the mystery which is among you because you desire it not; and because of this, unspeakable misfortune has befallen you, and that of your own doing.
[35] And when he had thus spoken, he went away to the other side of the Yarden; and since no man ventured to hinder him, he did as he had done before.
[36] Then went out to him Yerushalaim, and all of Yhudah, and all the circumjacent region roundabout the Yarden:
[37] And they were being immersed in the Yarden River under him, (under the authority of his doctrine which is his name), confessing their sins.

Tzaddokim 10:1-28
[01] Then he, Yeshua from the Galil, appeared upon the Yarden with Yohanan to immerse under him:
[02] And behold, going through the plunges, a brilliant white light shone roundabout the whole place:
[03] And lo, a voice out of heaven, You are My son, This day have I begotten you.
[04] And he, Yohanan, seeing the great light impeded him going through, saying:
[05] I have need to immerse under you and for you to enter unto me!
[06] Then he, Yeshua, answering prevented him, saying, Let it be for now; for in this manner it is fitting for us to fill up all righteousness: then he left him.
[07] But immersing by and by he ascended from the water, and behold, a great white light roundabout, and fire upon the water of the Yarden, and the heavens were rent:
[08] And he saw Ruach Elohim descending as if a dove and lighting upon him:
[09] And behold, a voice from the heavens, saying, This is My Son, the Beloved, with whom I make approval, (with whom I set My seal of approval).
[10] Then Yeshua sailed away into the desert under the Spirit to be tested under the diabolos:
[11] As it is written in haNavi Yeshayahu:
[12] Butter and honey shall he eat before he knows to reject the evil or to choose the good:
[13] For before the child shall know good or evil; he refuses the evil to choose the good, and the land which you fear shall be forsaken of both her kings.
[14] But Elohim shall bring upon you, and upon your people, and upon the house of your fathers, days which have never come since the day that Ephraim departed from Yhudah: the king of Assyria.
[15] And in that day it shall come to pass that YHWH shall whistle for the fly that is in the uttermost part of the rivers of Egypt, and for the bee that is in the land of Assyria:
[16] And they shall come, and shall enter all of them into the clefts of the land, and into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves, and into every ravine.
[17] In that day shall Adonay shave from the head to the hairs of the feet, with the hired razor from beyond the river, the king of Assyria; yea, even the beard shall be consumed.
[18] And it shall come to pass in that day that a man shall keep alive a calf of the herd and two of the flock:
[19] And it shall be from the abundance of milk that every one who is left in the land shall eat butter and honey.
[20] For behold, YHWH brings upon you the waters of the river, strong and mighty, even the king of Assyria and all his glory:
[21] And he shall come up over all his channels and overflow all his banks:
[22] And he shall pass through Yhudah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck:
[23] And the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of your land, O Emmanuel!
[24] Associate yourselves, O you people, and you shall be broken in pieces; give ear, all you far away countries; gird yourselves, and you shall be broken in pieces:
[25] Gird yourselves, and you shall be shattered; take counsel together, and it shall come to nothing; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for Emmanuel, El is with us!
[26] And fasting forty days and forty nights eventually he hungered.
[27] And coming near the tempter said to him, If you are a son of Elohim, command that these stones become bread!
[28] But answering Yeshua said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every rhema word that proceeds out of the mouth of Elohim.

What you read in the above, if you chose to read it, is the transformation of Yohanan from a "wild man" in the desert, (which portion comes from Slavonic Josephus), whom no one could even recognize to begin with because of all the Nazarite hair that covered his face and body, (as well as shed hair of other animals and raiment of camel hair). Those things were for several good reasons; one of which was to disguise himself and who he was, (because he was a rebel leader-priest in the beginning which came about because of the taxation with the rise of Yhudas the Galilean). But after his own immersion by fire, he says, "He must increase, but I must decrease", and that is exactly what happens throughout the Gospel accounts. The same is expected of us when we enter into Yeshua faithfulness; we are to put off the "old man" and crucify the deeds of the flesh man and the deeds of the body, "He must increase, but I must decrease", for "I" must become him and allow him and his doctrine to reign over me and my house; for Messiah is the Word of YHWH, signed, sealed, and delivered unto us in the love of Elohim.

 

[daqq]

:AMR:

I suppose the point to you is that even though your fellow Calvinites, AMR and Lon, will not accuse you of "intentional blasphemy", (as Lon did me for telling him the truth and cut me off between the naos and the altar by cutting off my voice in the other thread), you do reveal in the following graven image file which you posted in another thread that you worship what you imagine is a "God-Man" in the imagination of your mind:

Actually one of your own recently posted an image file in another thread that shockingly sums up pretty much what the both of you believe. It even shows the famous Scutum Fidei Trinitarian war shield that Apple7 sports for an avatar.

The only question is who is the fourth God in the center of the shield?
It invariably ends up being the bearer of the shield. :chuckle:

When in reality it is much more likely Yohanan the Immerser whom you make into a God-Man: for it was Yohanan who ate butter, treetop dew, and wild honey of the field from the tip of his staff, prefigured in the story of Yonathan-Yohanan the son of Shaul whose "soul was knit together" with the soul of David the king, (1Samuel 14:27).

 

[patrick jane]

If you truly love God, you'll see.

What would Baal be doing in the third heaven?