The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

[Evangelion]

OK, I admit it - I couldn't resist!

Here's another one (from the same Website), for drbrumley -

• 
  What is indisputably, absolutely, and uncompromisingly essential to the Christian religion is its doctrine of salvation...
  
  If Dispensationalism has actually departed from the only way of salvation which the Christian religion teaches, then we must say it has departed from Christianity. No matter how many other important truths it proclaims, it cannot be called Christian if it empties Christianity of its essential message. We define a cult as a religion which claims to be Christian while emptying Christianity of that which is essential to it. If Dispensationalism does this, then Dispensationalism is a cult and not a branch of the Christian church. It is as serious as that. It is impossible to exaggerate the gravity of the situation.
  John H. Gershner - Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth.

The plot thickens! (Oooh, those nasty, cultic Dispys! Whatever will they think of next?!)

 

[Apollos]

Needed: Water and Spirit

Needed: Water and Spirit

agape –

Finally you admit that man must do something to obtain the salvation God offers by His grace. Now all we have to do is determine which things are essential, which is what you have begun to do. Given your temperament, this is progress!!

I have you down (from your last post) that man must repent and confess. Now of course, man must hear and believe before he can repent and confess (this is axiomatic), so I now have you down for (your list is):

Hear / Believe / Repent / Confess / ….

See, we are 80% in AGREEMENT. I knew you did not believe in that “faith only” foolishness.

So that brings us to WHICH baptism is required. Once you learn that it is WATER baptism and not Spirit baptism that it required for salvation, you will be 100% !!! I am encouraged for you!!!

Jesus said one must be born again of God's Spirit to be saved…

Oh agape!! I am so disappointed that you would SUBTRACT from God’s word! The passage (John 3:5) plainly tells us that TWO agents are required – WATER and the Spirit! Why would you leave WATER out of the passage? God didn’t!! (I think I see an agenda here…)

To be born of God's Spirit is to be BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY GHOST...

Not again!! Twice in your last post you leave off part of God’s word!! Now agape, you need to pay attention to what God is saying in John 3:5. You know Peter tells us in 1 Peter 1:23 that we are “born again” through the word. The word in John 3:5 tells us it takes WATER and SPIRIT. Trying to be saved by just ONE agent is cheating God, makes Him a liar, and is only 50% at best. God needs 100% from us. 100% = WATER –and- Spirit.

Paul tells us in Ephesians 5:26 and in Titus 3:5 that WATER and Spirit are involved and are necessary for salvation.

We are nearly there agape. Don’’t “dry-up” on me now!!

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Agape said:

Why should they even be water baptized AFTER they received the gift of holy spirit? Did water add to their being born again, saved and having eternal life? Did water add to the fullness of Christ in them, the hope of glory?

Your confusion may be due to a flawed salvation theology. There’s no assurance of salvation after Baptism. The Apostle Paul teaches us to have hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ. That we should work out our salvation in fear and trembling.

Baptism is the beginning of a faith journey, which ends (hopefully) in salvation. But I can always fall from God's grace.

Why the water then? Answre: Santifying grace. Peter was a Church-man. His Church had Sacraments. Water Baptism is a Sacrament which is the means of receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit, which is Santifying Grace.

But didn’t they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Santifying Grace) already? Sure. What’s wrong with more of God’s Grace?

Dave

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Agape said:

As I have already stated: Peter responded with what was necessary to the reaction of those Judean believers who were with him: why are you so bewildered?? Surely none of you circumcised people, nor I myself, have the able power to hinder or block the water (spiritual water which is holy spirit-life) to cause these Gentiles to not be baptized in holy spirit? Are we going to hinder the purposes of God from these people - these people of the Gentile background whom we can hear speaking with tongues which is proof that they have received the same holy spirit-life and they now are able to manifest the promise of the Father which the Lord Jesus Christ foretold about, are we? No, of course we are not able to hinder God's will.

Wow … you violently butchered Peter’s meaning.

Dave

 

[Kevin]

Pay closer attention...

Pay closer attention...

c.moore,

Ro:10:9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved Ro:10:10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Why are you emphasizing the part that speaks about believing in the heart? I've never disagreed with that. What I've been giving Agape a hard time about is that he (or she?) is claiming that one "confesses" inwardly with the heart. That is NOT what the verse says! It says with the MOUTH confession is made unto salvation. The MOUTH, not the heart, but you just blindly defend Agape, don't you.

Therefore in order to CONFESS "with the mouth", you have to use your mouth, right? That's what I'm asking you. Will your pride stop you from answering this simple question honestly?

Here is what started this whole thing (page 118 at the top):

Kevin:
"Confessing Christ with the mouth does play a role in our salvation:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Agape:
With the mouth does not mean saying it verbally or out loud. It means you are confessing this within yourself"

We were talking about the act of confessing, not believing. If you confess within yourself, you are not using your mouth, which is what we are to use according to that verse!

 

[agape]

Re: Pay closer attention...

Re: Pay closer attention...

Originally posted by Kevin
c.moore,
Therefore in order to CONFESS "with the mouth", you have to use your mouth, right? That's what I'm asking you. Will your pride stop you from answering this simple question honestly?

No...NOT RIGHT. You DO NOT have to use your mouth. It means "YOU are saying it...you are saying ...not out loud (although you could)...but that's not the point...you are saying that Christ is your savior, he died for your sins...you are confessing your Savior FROM SIN. This is not works which you are trying to prove. NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST. It is what is in your heart that matters. How silly to think that you have to say it out loud to be saved. The mouth doesn't save you...Christ saved you and this is what you are confessing. It does not say to confess with thy mouth before men. Even that would not save you. You are really becoming quite boring harping on the same issue over and over again. If you still want to believe you have to say it out loud to be saved then fine, but give it a rest already.

 

[drbrumley]

Kevin,

Then if I take your opinion, someone who is mute and cant speak
doesn't have a chance to heaven?

If that isn't about the dumbest thing I ever heard.

 

[Evangelion]

Nope. Your argument is based on the false assumption that all we need to do is confess Jesus, and we'll be saved.

That's a classic example of taking one verse out of context, and ignoring any other verse which might qualify it.

 

[Kevin]

You're not doing yourself any favors...

You're not doing yourself any favors...

Agape,

It means "YOU are saying it

Saying it with what, according to that verse?

you are saying ...not out loud

If you are not saying it outloud then you are not using your mouth. If your mouth does not move, you are not using your mouth. The verse says that we are to confess with the MOUTH. You can't confess with the mouth if you don't USE the mouth! One of the fucntions of the mouth is to speak OUT LOUD what we think and feel INWARDLY.

If that verse meant for us to confess Him in the heart, it would have said so, but that's not what it says. It says we are to confess with the MOUTH.

Oh how I WISH we were standing in front of a crowd so I could bury you with your logic!!! I would LOVE to see the looks on the crowd's faces (and yours) when I challenge you do confess something to me with the mouth, without using your mouth. That would be a Kodak moment indeed.

I'd like to see you practice what you preach. Confess something with your mouth without actually using it! Please. As the title of this post says, you're not doing yourself, or your position, any favors.

Some more experiments for you to practice what you preach:

1) Strike a nail "with the hammer" without using the hammer.

2) Start a car "with the key" without using the key.

3) Write your name "with the pen" without using the pen.

I challenge you to do any/all of these things "indwardly" without actually using the mentioned items. You're so lucky this isn't a verbal debate in front of an audience. Easy pickins.

 

[Kevin]

drbrumley,

Kevin,

Then if I take your opinion, someone who is mute and cant speak
doesn't have a chance to heaven?

A God who does not allow us to be tempted with more than we can bear (1 Cor.10:13), would not expect something of us that we cannot do. Your statement does not excuse the many that can do this.

If that isn't about the dumbest thing I ever heard.

No, what is "dumb" is when man tries to make excuses for what the Bible says, trying to justify not doing it. That's dumb. He who has an ear, let him hear!

 

[agape]

Originally posted by Evangelion
Nope. Your argument is based on the false assumption that all we need to do is confess Jesus, and we'll be saved.

That's a classic example of taking one verse out of context, and ignoring any other verse which might qualify it.

Oh you mean verses like:

Ephesians 2:4-9:
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:

That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.

Acts 28:28:
Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and [that] they will hear it.

Romans 10:10:
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 1:16:
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Ephesians 1:13:
In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Titus 2:11:
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Hebrews 9:28:
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Acts 2:21:
And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 2:47:
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Acts 4:12:
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Acts 11:14:
Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Etc., etc., etc.

That's right Evangelion, all we need to do is to confess the Savior from Sin and believe in our hearts that God raised him from the dead. Christ did all the works necessary for our salvation. All we need to do is BELEIVE...we are then saved, born again of God's Spirit and have eternal life. It's that simple because it could not and cannot be done by man or his works of any kind. NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST! It is the "FREE GIFT" OF GOD'S GRACE

 

[c.moore]

Kevin

I do see you point , and I understand more of your belief.

I think the point agape is just trying to show you that we can be saved when we just believe with our heart, and we can have eternal life, and we should want to confess with our mouth if we really believe in our heart.

The same is with the baptism,we are save by believing , and born again, and sence we are saved , if we really believe in our hearts we will get water baptized.

I notice your believe is based mostly on the thing that are seen in the natural,that one can see, or hear, feel or taste, and specially do.

I would rather base my belief on Jesus alone, and on the Spiritual world and ways Of God.

Let God bless you

 

[agape]

Originally posted by c.moore
Kevin
I think the point agape is just trying to show you that we can be saved when we just believe with our heart, and we can have eternal life, and we should want to confess with our mouth if we really believe in our heart.

The point I am trying to make is yes we need to believe with our heart in Christ as our Savior, this is confessing the Lord Jesus and this is believing God raised him from the dead.

The same is with the baptism,we are save by believing , and born again, and sence we are saved , if we really believe in our hearts we will get water baptized.

When we believe "in" Christ, we are baptized with the holy spirit" at that very moment. There is no longer any water baptism. Again, Christ said: Acts 1:5: "For John truly baptized with water, BUT ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

 

[agape]

Kevin,

It is with the mouth that a person shows others his faith. But it is not by a person's mouth that he is saved.

I hope you realize that this is the "only" verse that says "with the mouth." All other verse "regarding salvation" simply tell us that we must do one thing, which is to believe in Jesus Christ.

In Acts 16:30,31, the jailor asked Paul "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" The anwer was short and simple: "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved." If "confessing with the mouth" or "saying it out loud "brings one salvation, don't you think Paul would have said so? Did he say it? No. Why? Because saying it verbally with the mouth is not a prerequisite for salvation. It is by "believing" in the Lord as one's savior from sin that one gets saved and born again of God's Spirit.

John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVETH IN HIM shall not perish but have eternal life." This verse makes no mention of verbally confessing with the mouth.

Acts 13:39:
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

There are many more verses which place the emphasis on "believing" in order to be saved.

it is the faith--not the works, the ritual, nor the physical act that qualifies a person for the kingdom of God. James also reminds us that faith, when put into practice, always produces works, which in turn declare that we are right with God. His emphasis is in agreement with Paul, who told us to "work out" our salvation, not work "for" it.

Again, Kevin, "It is with the mouth that a person shows others his faith. But it is not by a person's mouth that he is saved."

I don't know what more I can say at this time. Unless I have added info to give you, I will not be discussing this subject matter again. Believe what you will.

 

[c.moore]

Hello agape
you said:When we believe "in" Christ, we are baptized with the holy spirit" at that very moment. There is no longer any water baptism. Again, Christ said: Acts 1:5: "For John truly baptized with water, BUT ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."


Quote c.moore
are you saying we don`t have to be water baptized at any time?

It is a command to get water baptized , and in our walk with Jesus we should sometime get baptized as a follower of Chrst , but not get baptized to be saved , and have salvation , that is wrong by kevin They think water baptism saves, but it in the walk with Jesus.


God bless you

 

[Kevin]

Thanks

Thanks

c.moore,

I do see you point , and I understand more of your belief.

Thank you so much for acknowledging my simple point that confession is done with the mouth according to that verse, not the heart. I respect your honesty. :up:

I notice your believe is based mostly on the thing that are seen in the natural,that one can see, or hear, feel or taste, and specially do.

I base my beliefs on my faith in God, and my obedience to Him. I believe that we must do what God commands us to do to be saved. A lot of people don't believe this. In the end, we will all give an accountance for our actions (or lack of).

I would rather base my belief on Jesus alone, and on the Spiritual world and ways Of God.

Yeah, but if you base your belief on Jesus, yet do not to His commandments, then you are a liar, and the truth is not in you (1 John 2:4). We have to believe and keep His commandments.

 

[Kevin]

Agape,

But it is not by a person's mouth that he is saved.

Paul clearly shows a relation between "confessing with the mouth" and salvation. The verse clearly says "with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation. Paul goes on in verse 13 to say that "Whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." How do we "call" on the name of the Lord? Well, "with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation."

Paul himself called upon the name of the Lord in his conversion (Acts 22:16). By the way, he was baptized also. And if you notice, Jesus asked Paul "Why are you waiting, arise and be baptized...". Jesus told Paul to get baptized, which is proof that your theory of "a person is automatically baptized upon hearing the word" is not true. If Paul was automatically baptized, Jesus wouldn't have asked him why he was waiting.

Then there's the eunuch who wasn't baptized automatically as soon as he believed. When the eunuch acknowledged that he blieved in Jesus, Phillip took him down into the waters and baptized him. This happened AFTER he believed (not automatically) by Phillip, and it involved water.

All other verse "regarding salvation" simply tell us that we must do one thing, which is to believe in Jesus Christ.

Wrong:

Mark 16:16
16) He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

1 Peter 3:21
21) There is also an antitype which now saves us-baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Acts 10:34-35
34) Then Peter opened his mouth and said: In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality.
35) But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.

Romans 6:3-6
3) Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
4) Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,
6) knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

John 8:51
51) "Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death

Hebrews 5:9
9) And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

John 15:10
10) If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

1 John 2:17
17) And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

1 John 3:24
24) Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Revelation 22:14
14) Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and my enter through the gates into the city.

1 John 2:3-4
3) Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4) He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVETH IN HIM shall not perish but have eternal life." This verse makes no mention of verbally confessing with the mouth.

1 John 2:4 makes it quite clear belief by itself won't do anybody any good. The "belief" spoken of in John 3:16 is the kind of belief that is acted upon. What good does it do you to hear the gospel and believe it, yet you don't obey it? If one truly believes in Him, then they will obey His commandments.

There are many more verses which place the emphasis on "believing" in order to be saved.

I'm sure there are, but you just don't understand what kind of belief is being spoken of. It's not a dead belief unto it's own. The people who believed and converted where the ones who acted upon thier belief and obeyed the gospel.

 

[HopeofGlory]

Apollos,

The GREAT COMMISSION is not found in your bible.

Because of what the Great Commission contains, I often wonder if those who say it’s “not there”, or that it was never “acted upon”, think we should preach the gospel to the entire world.

The Great Commission is nothing more than a cliche on which religionist hang their doctrinal hat. Christ never commanded apostles to water baptize but He did instruct the apostles to teach the words He had spoken to them. The apostles failed to deliver the words of the new testament for remission (Mat 26:28) and continued to preach the Baptist (Mark 1:4) water baptism of repentance for remission (Acts 2:38).

quote:
No, it is not there [in Matthew 28:18f]! Notice Jesus said that "all" power had been given to Him in heaven and earth being this was after His death for remission of sins (see Heb 16). This in effect replaced the old testimony of remission delivered by the Baptist (Mark 1:4).

I agree! In fact, that ALL authority was given to Christ “replaced” EVERYTHING before this time in religion. This changed everything! It was at this point that Jesus had ALL say in religious matters. It was at this time that Jesus gave a NEW baptism for the WHOLE creation which was into the “name of the F/Son/HS”. It was new, Jesus had all authority to institute a new baptism (water), and He did just that by His authority. We see in Acts where the disciples took this commission and baptism to the entire world !!

The change was not a “new” water baptism therefore the foundation of your false doctrine is nothing more than sand. The change was a new testament in the blood of Christ for remission. Now tell us where Jesus commissioned a “new” water baptism and explain the difference between the old and the new with proof text!

If you opened the valve of a irrigation tank did you baptize each seed in the field individually causing it to germinate? No, it would be almost impossible to do so but you did release the water thus giving life to all the seed the water immersed. Such is the spirit word (John 6:63) of the new testament for remission of sins (Mat 26:28) that Christ instructed the apostles to teach (Mat 28:19-20), it gives life (2 Cor 3:6) and we are born again through faith in it (1 pet 1:23).

quote:
Christ did authorize His own baptism (Acts 1:5).

No He did not! Christ “authorized” nothing here in Acts 1:5. But He did PROMISE to send the HS to the APOSTLES only, as Luke recorded earlier in Luke 24 – to the apostles! HS baptism is NOT authorized, it is not for remission of sins, it is not for salvation, and Jesus never told any disciple to baptize another with HS baptism!

The baptism Jesus authorized in Matthew 28:18f was in water (Acts 10:47) and it was for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38). Stop confusing the authorized baptism of Jesus (in the name of Jesus Christ) with the baptism of John. They are TWO different animals!!

Christ most assuredly did authorize Spirit baptism for “ALL” and the inspired epistles of Paul reveals this truth (1 Cor 12:13) (Eph 4:4-5)

And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but (on the contrary) tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. Luke 24:49 (KJV)

Where did Jesus say the apostles would be baptized with the Holy Ghost at Pentecost? Where is this promise made? Jesus said “but tarry until ye be endued with power“. The gift of the Holy Ghost (Acts 1:7) was not salvation and it was not Spirit baptism that places us unto the body of Christ. You draw conclusions based on assumptions to prove your “new” water baptism doctrine.

quote:
The apostles never baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost…

Yes they did! This baptism “in the name of Jesus” or “by His authority” as found in the commission of Matthew 28:18f is mentioned specifically by name in Acts 2:38, 8:16, 10:48, and 19:5.

Please, your statement is without proof. None of your references contain anybody being baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Why? Because it is impossible for man to perform this baptism that the Baptist said Jesus (Mark 1:8) would do.

quote:
He did authorize a "new" testament with a greater witness than the Baptist…

More accurately, the blood of Jesus ratified (validated) a new testament. In that new testament Christ authorizes what He wants man to do in religion. Christ has ALL authority, so He can dictate as He pleases. That Jesus is “greater” than John is a given as John came to prepare the way of the Lord.

The shed blood of Christ IS the new testament.

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Matt. 26:28 (KJV)

Christ did not require man to do anything.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing ...John 6:63 (KJV)

The point is that Jesus gave us a greater “witness” for remission of sins (Mat 26:28) and it superceded the Baptist’s witness (Mark 1:4). It explains why Paul said...
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel... 1 Cor. 1:17 (KJV)

Many have received man’s false doctrine of the Great Commission (Acts 2:38) yet they reject the words of Peter that state it must be obeyed (Acts 10:35) to receive remission.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5 (KJV)
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; Titus 3:6 (KJV)
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:7 (KJV)

Will be continued....

In Christ
Craig

 

[HopeofGlory]

Obedience is by faith!

Obedience is by faith!

Many would rather identify with those who insist on baptism into Christ by the Holy Spirit as the true baptism, and do not practice water baptismal regeneration and label those who insist that water baptism is necessary for salvation as heretics.
It is clear these do not believe one must be water baptized to be saved of which is true for us today but they do not understand the clear teachings on water baptism being a requirement in the early church for salvation. If they had not obeyed in water baptism at Pentecost they would not have been saved and the gift of the Holy Ghost would not have been received. Water baptism for remission was superceded in the new testament by faith in the blood Christ shed for remission of sins.

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. Col. 2:12 (KJV)
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Col. 2:13 (KJV)

Note this baptism is the OPERATION OF GOD and it is NOT water baptism. This is clearly a reference to Spiritual baptism through faith when we are quickened together with Him. Doctrine is not developed by adding words to scripture but the context is evidence of its meaning. Many take random scripture references out of context and add water to the mix and say, there I proved it. It simply will not work! The inspired word of God in reference to the "new" testament truth being not understood has caused many to add “water” to various verses but if we say one MUST be water baptized to be saved then it is clearly an offence to the cross.

If we read Romans 5 we can see how we are baptized into his death and the contrast of the old testament of obedience as compared to the new testament of obedience. Those who walk by sight and are still in the flesh say it is by obeying in water baptism but this is not what Paul said.

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: Rom. 5:1 (KJV)
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Rom. 5:2 (KJV)

Faith is required not obedience to water baptism which is a "work" of the flesh. If a work is required then salvation must be earned. Jesus said “it is finished” and therefore no more “work” is required for salvation. Those who do not have “faith” in His finished work say water baptism is required and are still in their sins.

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. Rom. 5:9 (KJV)

We are justified by His blood in the new testament and the only way that can be received is by faith. Nothing more need be added unless you do not believe. The old message for remission of sins (Acts 2:38) has been superceded by the greater witness of God (John 5:36) and the new message is faith in His blood for remission of sins.


But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. Rom. 5:15 (KJV)

We can not add to the finished work of Christ and this "gift" must be received "freely" or it is no longer a gift.

For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Rom. 5:19 (KJV)

The contrast is clearly defined when compared with...And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him (Acts 5:32). It is not "our" obedience but by the obedience of "one" so that the gift may be "free". Some say it is not free and by adding their obedience they deny the word of God and void the free gift.


Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Rom. 6:3 (KJV)

Note the contrast! It says baptized "into Jesus" as compared to "into water". How are we to get into Jesus?..."For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body" (1 Cor. 12:13) (KJV)...and it is the "one" baptism (Eph. 4:5) for us today.

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Rom. 6:4 (KJV)

Here it says "into death" not "water" . In other words when we are baptized by the Spirit we are in His body and we died with Him and it is received through "faith" freely by His obedience not ours.

The "new" testament baptism is "into his death" and should not be confused with the "old" testament baptism that was "into water".

Scripture is the inspired word of God and Paul wrote ....One Lord, one faith, one baptism (Eph. 4:5). There is only one baptism for us today and it is Spirit baptism. To disprove these words one must added the word water to various scriptures and God has commanded us not to add to His word.

In Christ
Craig

 

[drbrumley]

HopeofGlory,

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!