The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

[agape]

Evangelion,

I would like for you to explain how after someone is born again through spirit baptism, has received the fullness of God in Christ in him...Christ in him the hope of glory...has eternal life and all the spiritual blessings that come with it would still need to be dunked in H2O? What do they receive that adds or goes beyond spirit baptism. What profit is there?

Thanks in advance.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

So agape wants only to provide commentary to the Bible without ever reading commentary ... especially early church commentary on the Bible.

Agape said:

As for the early church fathers...well...if they contradict the Apostle Peter or Paul...ect, I have to put a question mark next to Clement or Augustine or any of them. I don't go changing what's written in Bible to match what they say.
/

They don't contradict what the apostles taught. They contradict Agape's flawed re-interpretation of what the apostles' teach.

Agape said:

I really have no interest in the rest of what you posted because it does not prove anything and to be quite frank, I don't trust any of it. You can keep the tables too. I'll stick with the Bible. Genesis to Revelation fits perfectly together

Genesis thru Revelations fit perfectly together if you include the deuterocanonical OT books of the original 4th century canon ... which I doubt you do.

Good luck Agape ... I hope your don't fall into more error.

Dave

 

[HopeofGlory]

Apollos -

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The so called "Great Commission" is the doctrine of men and it can't not be found within the holy bible.
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I find it in Matthew 28:18f.

No, it is not there! Notice Jesus said that "all" power had been given to Him in heaven and earth being this was after His death for remission of sins (see Heb 16). This in effect replaced the old testimony of remission delivered by the Baptist (Mark 1:4).

Respond to my post on eternal life point by point if you wish to honestly debate this subject.

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The instructions of Christ… …are not to be confused with John the Baptist‘s testimony of water baptism for remission before the cross.
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So true! Christ authorized HIS own baptism after the cross in “the name of the F/Son/HS” which had never BEFORE been given. This was for ALL nations and we see the disciples putting this WATER baptism (by His authority) into practice throughout the book of Acts!!

Christ did authorize His own baptism (Acts 1:5).

The apostles never baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost because it was not possible for them to do it because all power had been give to Christ. Before the cross the apostles were given power to remit sins (John 20:23) but it was temporary remission that required endurance to the end of their faith yet new testament remission is eternal remission bought by the blood of Christ that fadeth not away. Christ never authorized a "new" water baptism but He did authorize a "new" testament with a greater witness than the Baptist (John 5:36) and that witness was His death on the cross for remission of sins. Where in scripture can we find your "new" water baptism???

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yet the apostles continued preaching the doctrine of the Baptist which was a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
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I see, they were under the guidance of the HS YET taught error, conflict & confusion. Often, the only way to preserve & teach error is to blame some matters on the shortcomings of Deity &/or the word of God.
God is not the author of confusion, men are and apostles were men not God. Christ died to remove the law yet Peter continued therein well after Pentecost.

Jesus said... the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26 (KJV)

This was progressively revealed and continued well after Pentecost. Peter did not deliever the "new" testament at Pentecost and when he was sent to Cornelius his spoke words... "it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation"... this is in direct opposition to the instructions given by Christ and proves his lack of understanding at Pentecost. Simple to see that Peter required futher teaching by the Holy Ghost.

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The apostles message at Pentecost is completely void of the new testament for remission…
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Baloney! Luke 24:47 –“… repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.” Methinks you missed something BIG Craig!!
One must understand a message before it can be delivered!
Peter believed remission was in water baptism and it is evident he did not preach the cross for remission. Not one word about a "new" testament, Christ died for your sins, or faith in the shed blood of Christ for remission of sins. Peter preached a baptism of repentance for remission of sins (Acts 2:38) as taught by the Baptist (Mark 1:4). Not one word about a "new" water baptism or anything at all about a greater witness than John to mention a few. The apostles could not see the rightousness of God in Christ because it was veiled (2 Cor 3:13) by their belief in the old testament for remission. Repentance and remission was taught by the Baptist (Mark 1:4) before the new testament was effectual and Jesus said He had a greater witness (John 5:36) than that of the Baptist. His greater witness was the blood of the cross and if we have faith in it we receive eternal remission. Old testament remission was temporary and required a yearly sacrifice yet Christ died once for our sins and there remaineth no more sacrifice. If we sin after salvation we can only look back to the cross and praise God for once His blood is applied for remission to the true believer it remains eternally.
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…so they failed to obey these words of Christ...
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Oh Craig, the HS let them down…AGAIN!!.
No Apollos, the apostles let the Holy Spirit down, big difference.
The branches were broken off and Paul was called. Paul was the first apostle to deliver the "new" testament for remission

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The greatness message every to be delivered to the world (Matt 26:28) was not part of the apostles doctrine at Pentecost and the silence of it is deafening.
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Oh, but it WAS indeed!! Acts 2:39 – “For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.” The PROMISE of salvation was for ALL nations!! Although the apostles did not comprehend all that they said (which was under the direction of the HS) the HS DID know what He was doing and followed through with inerrant teaching and guidance for the apostles!! Acts 1:8 confirms this – “But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. ALL nations!! The Great Commission was under way and it was fully supported by the HS !!!

See my post about things of the kingdom on page 126 and I will bedate with you if you like.

Yes, Peter proclaimed the promise yet it was not received (2Peter 3:9-10). Peter believed Jesus would return to them (2Pet 2:4) at Pentecost and deliver the promises. God has not cast away these believers (He has saved them) and He will graft them in again (Rom 11). Yes the Holy Spirit always knows what to do and that is why Paul was called.

At Pentecost they receive power to do miracles so the People would believe they were of God and their calling was to reveal that Jesus was the Christ. The Baptist's calling was to manifest Jesus through water baptism (John 1:31) and this manifestation continued at Pentecost. Israel as a whole did not believe that Jesus was the Christ therefore they had to "repent" and believe that He was.

Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Acts 2:36 (KJV)
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Acts 2:37 (KJV)
Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38 (KJV)

Water baptism at Pentecost manifested that Jesus was Christ to Israel and without this understanding His death would have been in vain.

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There is no work needed but faith in the Son of God.
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The passage you gave said nothing about “faith only”. And “faith” is a comprehensive word in most applications of the Bible. “Faith” involves more than mental ascent or just mental acceptance. (Btw, where does repentance and confession fit in for you?? You should take heed to NOT ADD the word “only” with faith!!))

The Great Commission – It is for everybody, everywhere, TODAY !!!

Nowhere in the scriptures will you find a "GREAT COMMISSION" and it is nothing but a man made doctrine.

I have no problems with faith only because I was saved without water baptism and my relastionship with my Father is base on His uncondition love for me without any requirements on my part but faith in the death for His Son for all my sins. I lie not, I am a sinner saved by the grace of God without works. I obey Him because He loves me and I do not fear judgement because I will be judged not by my righteousness but by the righteousness of God. I have pased through the veil into His presence and I am seated in Christ at the right hand of God and Christ will not be cast down. Amen and Amen.

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This commission must be understood in the light of the “new” testament “for” remission of sins (Matt. 26:28).
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Accurately put, Jesus’ blood made possible the ratification of a new covenant by which remission of sins was made possible.

Apollos, Jesus never commanded "water" baptism and He most assuredly did not command a "new" water baptism. Jesus did deliver a "new testament" for remission of sins and is wasn't in water but blood.

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For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel.... 1 Cor. 1:17 (KJV)
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But Paul DID baptize people, including the Corinthians, the Ephesians, Lydia, and even the jailor. And Apollos (my favorite!) and Cephas were baptizing people too! Oh yes, and Philip was baptizing people also!! You think so many under the direction HS were in error??? Hardly! They were following the GREAT COMMISSION !!!
It is not hard to understand that Paul was not comissioned to water baptize. He said... Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 1 Cor. 1:17 (KJV)

Question. If the so called Great Comission to apostles was to water baptize, tell us why Paul was sent not to baptize and please provide you proof text.

Matthew 28:19 - “Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:
20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.”

If you want a clear understanding of these scriptures please read all the spoken words of Christ before He ascended. See my post about eternal life on page 138.

Go teach thus baptizing with the words about eternal life that I gave you. These words are spirit and the words will quicken (baptize) all that believe (John 6:63) (Matt 26:28) (John 6:54).

In Christ
Craig

 

[drbrumley]

Apollos,

Why did you not answer the questions I requested from your statement of faith?

I apologize for not seeing this earlier.

Why did you not tell us WHAT it involves for man to “ACCEPT” Jesus ???

See above.

My guess is that you did not want to take the time to “explain away” why “accepting” Jesus “looks” like it involves “works”, but (in your view) it really isn’t “works”. Well?

Assuming is very noble of you Apollos.

Instead, we got a “cut&paste” from Bob Hill.

Like I said, I didn't see it.

I will respond to your objections to Bob Hill's Thesis in a moment, but first to answer you direct questions on my "statement of faith."

What does it mean for man to ACCEPT Jesus Christ???

To accept Jesus Christ is to have a confident conviction that He is who the Bible says He is and that He keeps His promises.

WHAT does this involve??? Hmmm???

By placing our trust in Him, we enter into a personal and eternal relationship with the Son of God.

Later under subsection A - it mentions repentance. Does this repentance come BEFORE or AFTER the sinner receives salvation?

It is a change of heart wrought by the Holy Spirit through conviction of sin, to which the sinner responds in repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. (Statement of Faith, Section 4, subsection A)

Meaning that the first step is that the Holy Spirit testifys of Jesus to you. Here you either accept or reject the testimony of the Holy Spirit.In which you are convicted of sin and the YOU respond by Repenting of your sins and put your Faith in the Lord Jesus. Then you become saved. So in answer to your quesion, Repentance is Before you become saved.

 

[c.moore]

Originally posted by Kevin
c.moore,



Kev shakes his head in disbelief...

Please tell me, c.moore, that you don't actually believe that one can do something "with the mouth" without actually using the mouth, do you?

Ro:10:9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved Ro:10:10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

I just believe the Word of God study the above!

Let God bless you

 

[drbrumley]

cmoore, nice avatar

good to see you get one. LOL!

 

[Apollos]

Christ' baptism is not John's baptism

Christ' baptism is not John's baptism

The GREAT COMMISSION continues…

Because of what the Great Commission contains, I often wonder if those who say it’s “not there”, or that it was never “acted upon”, think we should preach the gospel to the entire world.

No, it is not there [in Matthew 28:18f]! Notice Jesus said that "all" power had been given to Him in heaven and earth being this was after His death for remission of sins (see Heb 16). This in effect replaced the old testimony of remission delivered by the Baptist (Mark 1:4).

I agree! In fact, that ALL authority was given to Christ “replaced” EVERYTHING before this time in religion. This changed everything! It was at this point that Jesus had ALL say in religious matters. It was at this time that Jesus gave a NEW baptism for the WHOLE creation which was into the “name of the F/Son/HS”. It was new, Jesus had all authority to institute a new baptism (water), and He did just that by His authority. We see in Acts where the disciples took this commission and baptism to the entire world !!

Christ did authorize His own baptism (Acts 1:5).

No He did not! Christ “authorized” nothing here in Acts 1:5. But He did PROMISE to send the HS to the APOSTLES only, as Luke recorded earlier in Luke 24 – to the apostles! HS baptism is NOT authorized, it is not for remission of sins, it is not for salvation, and Jesus never told any disciple to baptize another with HS baptism!

The baptism Jesus authorized in Matthew 28:18f was in water (Acts 10:47) and it was for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38). Stop confusing the authorized baptism of Jesus (in the name of Jesus Christ) with the baptism of John. They are TWO different animals!!

The apostles never baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost…

Yes they did! This baptism “in the name of Jesus” or “by His authority” as found in the commission of Matthew 28:18f is mentioned specifically by name in Acts 2:38, 8:16, 10:48, and 19:5.

He did authorize a "new" testament with a greater witness than the Baptist…

More accurately, the blood of Jesus ratified (validated) a new testament. In that new testament Christ authorizes what He wants man to do in religion. Christ has ALL authority, so He can dictate as He pleases. That Jesus is “greater” than John is a given as John came to prepare the way of the Lord.

This was progressively revealed [John 14:26] and continued well after Pentecost. … …Simple to see that Peter required futher teaching by the Holy Ghost.

I agree that revelation was progressive and I agree that the apostles did not understand everything all at once, even including some of the things they were teaching. BUT – and this is crux – the HS was guiding them and the HS did NOT allow them to 1.) Teach error –or- 2.) Practice error in religion.

You want to claim that some continued to practice John’s baptism (without proof) and other such when this would indicate that the HS was allowing error in their religious teaching & practice. This the HS would not/could not allow or do!

One must understand a message before it can be delivered!

Not so! With the HS guiding the apostles, they could “deliver” ANY message the HS guided them to deliver. See Acts 2:39.

Repentance and remission was taught by the Baptist (Mark 1:4) before the new testament was effectual…

As previously stated John came to prepare the way of the Lord. What John taught was PREPARATORY. Jesus died and His blood validated the NT by which remission was made actual. And in Luke 24:47, repentance & remission would be preached FIRST in His name from Jerusalem - unto all nations. (Love that G.C. !) IN HIS NAME – by His authority – and this FIRST in Jerusalem – Acts 2 !!

Paul was the first apostle to deliver the "new" testament for remission…

This is a clear and direct contradiction of Luke 24:47 !

Peter proclaimed the promise yet it was not received (2Peter 3:9-10).

Yes it was – see Acts 2:38-41 – especially verse 41 – and it was for everyone! (The passage you posted here proves nothing.)

Water baptism at Pentecost manifested that Jesus was Christ to Israel…

How did water baptism reveal Jesus as the Christ to Israel ????? If this was a continuance of John’s baptism as you claim, then Jesus must have already been revealed to Israel when John administered his baptism. This is conflicting thought!!

Nowhere in the scriptures will you find a "GREAT COMMISSION" and it is nothing but a man made doctrine.

The title is man made, just as the title for Matthew 7:12, “the Golden Rule”. So what?

But the doctrine… to go, teach all nations, baptize them by Christ’s authority, and observe all things He commanded… Now that’s a great commission for all men !!!

I have no problems with faith only because I was saved without water baptism…

You just think you were.

…my relastionship with my Father is base on His uncondition love for me without any requirements on my part but faith…

You did not answer me – Did repentance and confession have a part in your being saved? Where do these fit in???

Jesus did deliver a "new testament" for remission of sins and is wasn't in water but blood.

The NT ratified by the blood of Jesus makes possible the remission of sins. Jesus’ blood was shed in His death on the cross to procure our salvation. We are baptized into His death with water baptism to procure our salvation.

It is not hard to understand that Paul was not comissioned to water baptize

Oh, but he WAS – ALL disciples are!! That is why he BAPTIZED so many people!! My proof texts are as given before - the Corinthians, the Ephesians, Lydia, and even the jailor. Add to the list 1 Cor 6:11, Ephesians 5:26, and Titus 3:5.

Craig, you continue to struggle with this & misunderstand this passage (1 Cor. 1:17) in light of the overwhelming evidence that shows Paul’s teaching & practice was to baptize in WATER!! Your beliefs conflict with what Paul was doing. You need to CHANGE your beliefs because the scriptures are not going to !!.

Go teach thus baptizing with the words… …and the words will quicken (baptize)…

Craig, both of these examples here are given to show how disingenuous you are being in attempting to wrest scriptures over to your bias in teaching. People are not baptized in words, and “quicken” does not mean the same as baptize. You need a good self-examination and an honesty check. No one is going to believe this dribble an I expect better from you!!


Matthew 28:19 - “Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:
20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.”

Isn’t it just great ?!!

 

[Evangelion]

Agape -

I would like for you to explain how after someone is born again through spirit baptism, has received the fullness of God in Christ in him...Christ in him the hope of glory...has eternal life and all the spiritual blessings that come with it would still need to be dunked in H2O? What do they receive that adds or goes beyond spirit baptism. What profit is there?

Your question is misguided. It doesn't even address my soteriological model. Here's why...

Firstly, I don't believe that "salvation" is an instant event which occurs on the spot. Secondly, I don't believe that anyone "has eternal life" for sure unless God personally informs them that this is the case. (We're gpong to be judged by Christ, you know...) Thirdly, I see nothing in Scripture which suggests that the Holy Spirit bestows the long list of blessings to which you refer. Fourthly, nobody's exaplained why Peter called for water, in order to baptise people who had already received the Holy Spirit.

 

[agape]

Originally posted by Evangelion
Agape -



Your question is misguided. It doesn't even address my soteriological model. Here's why...

Firstly, I don't believe that "salvation" is an instant event which occurs on the spot. Secondly, I don't believe that anyone "has eternal life" for sure unless God personally informs them that this is the case. (We're gpong to be judged by Christ, you know...) Thirdly, I see nothing in Scripture which suggests that the Holy Spirit bestows the long list of blessings to which you refer. Fourthly, nobody's exaplained why Peter called for water, in order to baptise people who had already received the Holy Spirit.

So what you are saying is that you don't believe the scriptures. Prove we do not have salvation now and prove we do not have eternal life for sure. Your answer to why of water baptism after spirit baptism is quite pathetic.

 

[Evangelion]

See? You dodge my answer, and throw up a new set of questions! What's the point of debating you, if you're never going to stick to the point?

If you won't give me answers to my questions, what makes you think I'll be so keen to answer yours?

 

[agape]

Originally posted by Evangelion
See? You dodge my answer, and throw up a new set of questions! What's the point of debating you, if you're never going to stick to the point?

If you won't give me answers to my questions, what makes you think I'll be so keen to answer yours?

Oh baloney Evangelion. I'm not dodging anything and you know it. I've responded every time. IYou're the one dodging my question, which I asked you in the first place because you don't have the answers..

 

[drbrumley]

Apollos,

Since you want to ridicule dispensationalism, how about join in This Forum And we will have a go at it. Evan is trying but not doing a very good job. You might be able to help him.:up:

 

[Apollos]

"Faith only" is unknown of in the Bible

"Faith only" is unknown of in the Bible

Dr.B –
Thank you for your response. I appreciate the straight-forward style in which you presented your information.

To accept Jesus Christ is to…
-have a confident conviction…
-placing our trust in Him…
-…a change of heart… …the sinner responds in repentance
-accept or reject the testimony of the Holy Spirit.
-In which you are convicted of sin and
-then YOU respond by Repenting of your sins (Repentance is Before you become saved) and
-put your Faith in the Lord Jesus.

Then you become saved.

These are the “points” presented in your last post. It is important to take note of these because you have claimed previously that salvation is by “faith only”. I must say that from what you have presented, you do not believe in “faith only” either.

To “accept” Jesus (or to be saved) you require:

-mental recognition of the facts (receive & accept testimony)
-trust…
-confidence
-conviction
-respond
-repent

After all of these are done/accomplished you say - “Then you become saved”. I am not sure though when you think man reaches the point at which he becomes saved but we now know what you require.

You see Dr.B, ALL of these are things that a man MUST DO (according to you) in order to appropriate the salvation God offers by His grace to man.

Unless I am totally mistaken, the sum of all of these points is MORE than what you and others have been attempting to define as “faith ONLY” (or more accurately “belief only”). You have your man going through quite a list of things to do before you get him saved.

.As I have said before, unless you are a true Calvinist, no one believes in “faith only”. Everyone believes that man must do something to be saved and everyone has a list of “things required” of man to do before he reaches the point when he is saved. I showed you your list above. I hope you can see that we both have a LIST, but mine differs from yours.

I think you are afraid to say that man must do something. You certainly have yours doing quite a lot. But because there is so much bad and false teaching on “works” and the types of works , too many have accepted the false notion of “faith only” and that there is nothing for man to do to appropriate salvation from God.

So I wish that you, and the other “faith only” types here in this thread would realize that ALL OF YOU require man to do some things to obtain salvation, but you are just afraid to admit it! The saved are separated from the lost by what they DO !

What does it take for a man to become saved? It takes what God requires of him to do. Here is my list:

-Man must HEAR God’s word and BELIEVE it – Romans 10:17.
-Man must REPENT of his sins. – Acts 17:30
-Man must CONFESS Jesus as the Son of God. – Romans 10:10 And culmatively…
-Man must be water BAPTIZED into Christ! – Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38,41, Gal. 3:27

It may depend on how you look at it, but my list is shorter than YOURS !!!

 

[Evangelion]

Yeah, come on over, Apollos. He's doing fine! I get an average of one answer a week. Oh yeah, he's all over me. I can barely handle the pressure!

Hey, drbrumley - got an answer for the circumcision question yet? And would you care to explain why different dispensationalists keep coming up with a different number of dispensations? Or why it is that Dispensationalism didn't exist before Darby came along?

 

[drbrumley]

Evangelion,

I get an average of one answer a week. Oh yeah, he's all over me. I can barely handle the pressure!

LOL! It's all in fun.

got an answer for the circumcision question yet?

Dont worry mate'.

And would you care to explain why different dispensationalists keep coming up with a different number of dispensations?

Same reason all these debates on this forum are raging.

Or why it is that Dispensationalism didn't exist before Darby came along?

Is that a joke? I want some references to that. I know it is promoted as that, but there is no validity to it. Darby taught it yes and in away he brought it back to the forefront. But to say it orginated with darby is quite inaccurate. Evidence Please.

 

[Zakath]

Ah, ah, ah, drbrumley! You should know better than to try to get someone to prove a negative!

You've, in essence, asked Ev. to prove that nobody taught dispensationalism before Darby.

 

[drbrumley]

Zakath,

Well, what have we done to be honored by your presence?
Oh wait, does your post even exist?

 

[Evangelion]

ROTFL! He has, too! What a cheeky little devil, eh?

drbrumley, I hate to be the one to tell you, but it's a simple fact of life that Dispy-ism did not exist before Darby came along.

You can lean more about the history of Dispy-ism and Darby (the Original Dispy) right here.

 

[Evangelion]

Oooh, I've just found a series of articles on Dispy-ism at the same Website!

You can view 'em at your leisure right here.

Time for bed. Look forward to hearing from you tomorrow! :up:

 

[agape]

Re: "Faith only" is unknown of in the Bible

Re: "Faith only" is unknown of in the Bible

Originally posted by Apollos


What does it take for a man to become saved? It takes what God requires of him to do. Here is my list:

-Man must HEAR God’s word and BELIEVE it – Romans 10:17.

Correct

-Man must REPENT of his sins. – Acts 17:30

Correct - repentance means to confess our Savior from sins.

-Man must CONFESS Jesus as the Son of God. – Romans 10:10

Man must confess and believe Jesus Christ died for their sins and that God raised him from the dead. At that moment he/she is born again of God's Spirit and has eternal life.

And culmatively…

-Man must be water BAPTIZED into Christ! – Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38,41, Gal. 3:27

INCORRECT...man's private interpretation only..

Jesus said one must be born again of God's Spirit to be saved and to have entrance into the Kingdom of God. To be born of God's Spirit is to be BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY GHOST...He did not say one must be water baptized into Christ because that is not the truth and cannot possibly occur. No one can be "water baptized "into" Christ. That statement does not even exist in the Scriptures.