The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)
- Thread starter Freak
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rene
New member
Some want to suggest that baptism in water is not necessary for salvation. Strange how someone that is to be a follower of Jesus and scripture could come to that view.
How did the believers at Pentecost know this when they were convicted and cryed out, "What shall we do?" If they knew they were on their way to heaven, why did they think to ask such a question and if their repentance was evident, why would Peter answer them with, "Repent, and BE baptized and you SHALL receive the gift of The Holy Spirit?"
I can't see how the Ethiopian eunuch knew this when he asked Philip, "What hinders ME from being baptized?" Philip SHOULD have answered, "You have received the baptism of The Holy Spirit, why are you now seeking water?"
I can't see how Saul of Tarsus knew this when Ananias told him, "Be baptized and wash away your sins." He SHOULD have said, "Your sins are washed away, now get up and take a dip in water."
I can't see how Cornelius knew this when Peter asked, "Who can forbid water?" Cornelius received the promised outpouring before Peter was even through delivering his message so how could Cornelius even know he would BELIEVE this message?
I can't see how the Philipian jailor knew this when he asked Paul, "What must I do to BE saved?"
When Paul answered him he needed to believe in Jesus, it is written that he was baptized with his family within the hour. They couldn't WAIT to get baptized! Why NOT?
Jesus taught that true life depends on knowing God, our Father, and Jesus Christ, whom He sent.
It is by grace we will attain that, through Faith so that NO one can boast, being made evident by our works so that we may see for ourselves the evidence of The Spirit bearing fruit.
Having faith alone is not enough. Jesus gave instructions. To be a follower of Jesus and His teaching - a person has to follow and not pick and choose as if at a buffet.
How did the believers at Pentecost know this when they were convicted and cryed out, "What shall we do?" If they knew they were on their way to heaven, why did they think to ask such a question and if their repentance was evident, why would Peter answer them with, "Repent, and BE baptized and you SHALL receive the gift of The Holy Spirit?"
I can't see how the Ethiopian eunuch knew this when he asked Philip, "What hinders ME from being baptized?" Philip SHOULD have answered, "You have received the baptism of The Holy Spirit, why are you now seeking water?"
I can't see how Saul of Tarsus knew this when Ananias told him, "Be baptized and wash away your sins." He SHOULD have said, "Your sins are washed away, now get up and take a dip in water."
I can't see how Cornelius knew this when Peter asked, "Who can forbid water?" Cornelius received the promised outpouring before Peter was even through delivering his message so how could Cornelius even know he would BELIEVE this message?
I can't see how the Philipian jailor knew this when he asked Paul, "What must I do to BE saved?"
When Paul answered him he needed to believe in Jesus, it is written that he was baptized with his family within the hour. They couldn't WAIT to get baptized! Why NOT?
Jesus taught that true life depends on knowing God, our Father, and Jesus Christ, whom He sent.
It is by grace we will attain that, through Faith so that NO one can boast, being made evident by our works so that we may see for ourselves the evidence of The Spirit bearing fruit.
Having faith alone is not enough. Jesus gave instructions. To be a follower of Jesus and His teaching - a person has to follow and not pick and choose as if at a buffet.
rene
New member
Sad that there are those that use the buffet approach to scripture and pick and choose what portions that they are going to follow. Never mind that Jesus instructed something - if it doesn't fit within certain beliefs.
Such a person is a Christian? They may be a believer - for even the devils believe - but that doesn't make them a part of the family of God either.
Such a person is a Christian? They may be a believer - for even the devils believe - but that doesn't make them a part of the family of God either.
servantofChrist
New member
Freak said:
Hey "Freak"... Here's another one that's not just "pretty clear" - it's perfectly clear: "...baptism now saves you..." , 1 Pt. 3:21.
servantofChrist
New member
drbrumley said:
water baptism
rene
New member
drbrumley said:
Jesus also was talking to the nation of Israel when speaking of 'the law', but was giving instructions to the apostles as to what one was to do when sharing His gospel - - which clearly includes baptism.
So whom is it that you follow, the instructions as given by Jesus to His apostles - or the buffet approach to scriptures?
servantofChrist
New member
Freak said:
"Freak" --- You just contradicted yourself, called yourself a heretic, and refuted your own proposition.
You said: "The Heretics Message to the World: Be Baptized to be Saved!" You didn't say baptized in "water" or baptized in "Spirit", you just said, "Baptized."
Then you turned right around and said: "Yes, Spirit baptism occurs at conversion, this is what saves you."
Ouch!
servantofChrist
New member
drbrumley said:
Hi "drbrumley," I just wanted to convey my thoughts on the things you said about Jesus' words about the law and Paul's word's about the law.
You asked, "...who should we believe [Jesus or Paul]?" As though the words of Jesus and the words of Paul are in conflict and we have to make a choice. But there is no conflict and therefore no one has to choose between Jesus and Paul; as you correctly said yourself, Paul "received instruction from Jesus Himself."
Jesus' words about following every precept of the law were spoken before the New Covenant had taken effect, and were, therefore, spoken properly/correctly. Jesus had not died on the cross, which was the act that abolished the (old) law and enacted the new one, the New Covenant of "grace and truth" (Jn. 1:17)....
This is seen in the teaching of Heb. 9:15-17...
"For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. For a covenant is valid only when men are dead... for it is never in force while the one who made it lives."
When Jesus told someone to follow the law, He did so correctly because He had not died yet and those He addressed and taught were, therefore, still under that (old) law . It may have been a considerable span of time (perhaps months) from the time He spoke those words until He died on the cross. Therefore, the Jews He was attempting to teach the good news of the kingdom (Mk. 1:14,15) that He was ushering in, were still under the old law and were to continue in its practices until the new covenant of truth and grace came into effect. The basis for this are the words of Heb. 9:15-17.
But Paul was teaching that since Jesus had died, it was therefore not only improper to continue in the old law, but those who did were obligated to keep all of it, and in so going had "been severed from Christ" (Gal. 5:4).
Freak
New member
I'm speaking against water baptism, not Holy Spirit baptism (which occurs at conversion). That is the reason for this thread, there are many who believe water saves (just read the posts yourself). The Bible tells us water does not save but Jesus saves. You're a heretic if you believe water baptism saves.servantofChrist said:
servantofChrist
New member
Freak said:
"Freak" --- You said "The Bible tells us water does not save..." Tell us where it says this.
Freak
New member
Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"servantofChrist said:
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Jesus is the way not water. Pretty clear.
Jesus DID NOT say, "Water is the way, the truth, and the life."
rene
New member
Just ignore these words of Jesus,
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
The apostles evidently understood what you have problems understanding:
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.
Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Saul/Paul didn't have a problem with the doctrine Jesus left to be followed:
Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: [it is] hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Act 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord [said] unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
- to -
Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Act 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
So follow someone that calls themself "FREAK" - or the words of Jesus.
I made the choice long ago to follow Jesus.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
The apostles evidently understood what you have problems understanding:
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.
Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Saul/Paul didn't have a problem with the doctrine Jesus left to be followed:
Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: [it is] hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Act 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord [said] unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
- to -
Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Act 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
So follow someone that calls themself "FREAK" - or the words of Jesus.
I made the choice long ago to follow Jesus.