The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)
- Thread starter Freak
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rene
New member
No, I embrace Jesus and His teachings that He instructed to be followed.
You on the other hand reject His instructions that are clearly seen to be followed within scripture.
Name one found within the NT that is called a Christian, a follower of Jesus that never is baptized? I have already given a host of examples from within scripture to show how what I am writing of is within scripture - any examples of your suggested meaning found being practiced by believers and followers of Jesus? someone that never is baptized yet still considered to be part of the family of God? Just ONE such example?
You on the other hand reject His instructions that are clearly seen to be followed within scripture.
Name one found within the NT that is called a Christian, a follower of Jesus that never is baptized? I have already given a host of examples from within scripture to show how what I am writing of is within scripture - any examples of your suggested meaning found being practiced by believers and followers of Jesus? someone that never is baptized yet still considered to be part of the family of God? Just ONE such example?
Inquisitor
New member
Let's hear it for Fr. Leonard Feeney.
servantofChrist
New member
I'm amazed at the endless "reasons" people come up with as to why they think water baptism (immersion in water, Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:11) is not necessary for one to be saved.
Freak
New member
The debate was over long ago, my friend. Jesus ended it when He said, "I am the way..."Lucky said:Freak, if you were a Mid-Acts'er, you would have finished the debate already.
Jesus is the way to salvation not water. Case close!
Besides, I'd rather stick with using the title believer in Jesus Christ then Mid-Acts'er.
Freak
New member
Freak said:The debate was over long ago, my friend. Jesus ended it when He said, "I am the way..." This was explained in the OP. :wave:
Jesus is the way to salvation not water. Case close!
Besides, I'd rather stick with using the title believer in Jesus Christ then Mid-Acts'er.
rene
New member
It really isn't amazing - more sad.
How any can take all the verses that I and others have listed and refuse to see the very words of Jesus Himself teaching of baptism is beyond me.
To suggest that something that Paul has written somehow totally removes the teaching of Jesus, a teaching that he followed shows someone hasn't been reading and understanding scripture.
So many times we hear "Jesus saves" and find that many just don't understand what that means - to trust in Him, have faith in Him, to follow His teachings - not just some, but all of them.
This isn't really anything new. People were teaching other gospels than the one that Jesus left to be followed. Not that such makes it any easier when trying to show from within scripture the easy to see words within that Jesus taught. But at least we know that it was tried to show them His way, His teaching, His will.
Rene
How any can take all the verses that I and others have listed and refuse to see the very words of Jesus Himself teaching of baptism is beyond me.
To suggest that something that Paul has written somehow totally removes the teaching of Jesus, a teaching that he followed shows someone hasn't been reading and understanding scripture.
So many times we hear "Jesus saves" and find that many just don't understand what that means - to trust in Him, have faith in Him, to follow His teachings - not just some, but all of them.
This isn't really anything new. People were teaching other gospels than the one that Jesus left to be followed. Not that such makes it any easier when trying to show from within scripture the easy to see words within that Jesus taught. But at least we know that it was tried to show them His way, His teaching, His will.
Rene
servantofChrist said:
rene
New member
What you are seeing is what is their stand. Make up things not within scripture - which is what claiming something is in scripture when it clearly isn't there. You are seeing things within scripture ignored when it is clearly there. Even when large portions of scripture are shown that more than call into question their claims - they can't get past their own views long enough to see the 'words in red' from the one they claim to know so well and supposedly follow.
Their comments make no sense and never will since it is different than what is seen within scripture.
Their comments make no sense and never will since it is different than what is seen within scripture.
servantofChrist said:
servantofChrist
New member
rene said:
Well said, my brother. It simply amazes me that people can be so adamant about obedience to SOME commands and teachings being absolutely necessary to be saved, but somehow, other commands and instruction are not????!!!!! Last time I checked, Heb. 5:9 still said that "Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him" ...not "...to all who MOSTLY, or PARTLY, obey Him."
Thank you for speaking, and defending, the truth, my friend (1 Pt. 3:15).
servantofChrist
New member
With regard to those who say that the baptism of Acts 2:38; 22:16, 1 Pt. 3:21, etc., is Holy Spirit baptism... it isn't, and here's why...
If you look at Acts 1:4, 5... Jesus commanded His apostles to not leave Jerusalem, but to wait there because "in a few days [they would] be baptized with the Holy Spirit."
Then, Acts 2:1-4 shows the fulfillment of the Lord's words when the sound of the rushing, mighty wind came from heaven and cloven (divided) tongues as of fire rested on each of the apostles there. Notice that in this act of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, it came upon them BY THE WILL OF GOD, AT THE TIME OF HIS CHOOSING --- NOT--- BY THEM BEING GIVEN A COMMAND TO OBEY TO RECEIVE IT.
Then in Acts 2:38, the 2-part command is given to all of the multitude to "Repent and be baptized..." indicating something that THEY were to do.
Then, Acts 10:44-48 removes all doubt. Because in these verses is seen the baptism of the Holy Spirit on the Gentiles... "While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message [' Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit' ", Acts 11:16]."
But then right after the baptism of the Holy Spirit took place, Peter said --- "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized WITH WATER? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have. SO HE ** ORDERED ** THAT THEY BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST" (Acts 10:47, 48).
The case of Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch also shows that the baptism that accompanies the preaching of Christ is WATER baptism (Acts 8:35-39).
But the case of Cornelius and those present in his household, recorded in Acts 10:34-48 [esp. vv. 44-48], shows crystal clear that Holy Spirit baptism is an act done by the will of God at the time and place of His choosing... while the baptism that is commanded to people and is to be obeyed by them, is water baptism!
If you look at Acts 1:4, 5... Jesus commanded His apostles to not leave Jerusalem, but to wait there because "in a few days [they would] be baptized with the Holy Spirit."
Then, Acts 2:1-4 shows the fulfillment of the Lord's words when the sound of the rushing, mighty wind came from heaven and cloven (divided) tongues as of fire rested on each of the apostles there. Notice that in this act of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, it came upon them BY THE WILL OF GOD, AT THE TIME OF HIS CHOOSING --- NOT--- BY THEM BEING GIVEN A COMMAND TO OBEY TO RECEIVE IT.
Then in Acts 2:38, the 2-part command is given to all of the multitude to "Repent and be baptized..." indicating something that THEY were to do.
Then, Acts 10:44-48 removes all doubt. Because in these verses is seen the baptism of the Holy Spirit on the Gentiles... "While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message [' Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit' ", Acts 11:16]."
But then right after the baptism of the Holy Spirit took place, Peter said --- "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized WITH WATER? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have. SO HE ** ORDERED ** THAT THEY BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST" (Acts 10:47, 48).
The case of Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch also shows that the baptism that accompanies the preaching of Christ is WATER baptism (Acts 8:35-39).
But the case of Cornelius and those present in his household, recorded in Acts 10:34-48 [esp. vv. 44-48], shows crystal clear that Holy Spirit baptism is an act done by the will of God at the time and place of His choosing... while the baptism that is commanded to people and is to be obeyed by them, is water baptism!