The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)
- Thread starter Freak
- Start date
rene
New member
Have you actual READ what you wrote?? It makes no sense what so ever!
The questions have simple answers.
AGAIN,
"Can a person be a follower of Jesus that rejects and doesn't follow Him and His teaching?" A simple "YES" or "NO"
What is a person that misrepresents scriptures and the words of Jesus in favor of their own? A simple verse here that supports your comments and actions. I suggest looking at John 10:27 before you dig an even deeper pit than you already have for yourself.
What is a person that misrepresents and states falsehoods about someone? A simple verse here that supports your comments and actions. I suggest looking at Exodus 20:16 & 23:1, Deut. 19:16-20, Proverbs 6:19 & 12:17 & 19:5,9, Matthew 15:19.
These words that I have posted here now 5 times ring more true the more you avoid, "Why does a person not answer a direct question? Answer - because to do so means that they will have to face up to things that they don't want to. You know what I have written and supported with scripture that clearly states and supports what I have written esp. since I quoted the words of Jesus His instructions of baptism Not *MY* teaching like what you have in your stand, but the words of JESUS. Problem is that you have no verses that say that one can pick and choose which teaching they want to follow, that you get to make them up as you go along, no buffet approach to the teaching of Jesus.
There is no halfway with Jesus. You either follow His teachings or your not following Him. If not following Him, your not in Christ and you need to get in that position as quickly as you can repent and get there.
The questions have simple answers.
AGAIN,
"Can a person be a follower of Jesus that rejects and doesn't follow Him and His teaching?" A simple "YES" or "NO"
What is a person that misrepresents scriptures and the words of Jesus in favor of their own? A simple verse here that supports your comments and actions. I suggest looking at John 10:27 before you dig an even deeper pit than you already have for yourself.
What is a person that misrepresents and states falsehoods about someone? A simple verse here that supports your comments and actions. I suggest looking at Exodus 20:16 & 23:1, Deut. 19:16-20, Proverbs 6:19 & 12:17 & 19:5,9, Matthew 15:19.
These words that I have posted here now 5 times ring more true the more you avoid, "Why does a person not answer a direct question? Answer - because to do so means that they will have to face up to things that they don't want to. You know what I have written and supported with scripture that clearly states and supports what I have written esp. since I quoted the words of Jesus His instructions of baptism Not *MY* teaching like what you have in your stand, but the words of JESUS. Problem is that you have no verses that say that one can pick and choose which teaching they want to follow, that you get to make them up as you go along, no buffet approach to the teaching of Jesus.
There is no halfway with Jesus. You either follow His teachings or your not following Him. If not following Him, your not in Christ and you need to get in that position as quickly as you can repent and get there.
rene
New member
"drbrumley" - I am not going down any more rabbit trails with "Moore" till he addresses the questions that have been asked for PAGES within this thread - - LONG BEFORE he came up with his most recent ones that he is using to avoid answering. I have done so in the past - and he two-stepped his way away from answering. This time - - I am standing firm.
BTW - this isn't the first time that he has asked this same question that I have repeatedly answered. He likes to ignore that - but that doesn't change the fact that I have - as well as others having done so as well upon the thread. Time for "Moore" to quit playing games and simply answer the questions and see how they line up with scripture, the teachings of Jesus.
BTW - this isn't the first time that he has asked this same question that I have repeatedly answered. He likes to ignore that - but that doesn't change the fact that I have - as well as others having done so as well upon the thread. Time for "Moore" to quit playing games and simply answer the questions and see how they line up with scripture, the teachings of Jesus.
c.moore
New member
drbrumley Quoted:
Then why do you do that?
Quote C.Moore
you are correct I ask him the same question to answer way before about a righteous person goint to hell and he still didn`t answer the question, I ask him abot 1 cor and the new one about believer going to hell that love the Lord and are saved by the blood of Jesus and have a personal relationship but don`t get baptized go to hell and he side steped , and went to the baptismo loops and broken record concepts, which is a shame.
I am glad you also seen how he run with his tail between his leg when confronted with he truth and spiritual knowledgement and reasonings.
It is nothing new me and Freak went through this with His saving grace , Kevin ,and many others for years until they just stoped and found it is a waste of time and a waste of casting the pearl to swines.
It is like trying to bible whip people .
It is like debating and talking to the jhw and the mormonand muslim people , you go through this error loops and they even use the bible and certain scripture to justify their own doctrine and salvation message .
The world is really coming to an end so the devil has to use everyone he can get before the judgement to decieve, even religious people are the best one to decieve because they go on blind faith and belief.
Look at the catholics and their mary and other rituals they use a biblical obediences to get to heaven like rene is trying to do.
i asked Rene if he is a mormon who even baptize for the dead , but he said he isn`t but i think he would make a good memeber because they have this getting wet ritual of salvation and the condition to be accepted as a son of God or an saint is by a ritual work or you are doomed and damned and condemned by this loving God.
Again what a shame some religious people make the gospel and the good new of Christ ,now I can see why other non believer are chased away because of people like rene from Christ and the church.
baptism is not a requirement to be saved. This is utter blasphemy. The reason I brought up 1 Cor. 15 is twofold.
1> You will notice baptism is not mentioned. Because baptism is not part of the Gospel message.
2> The Gospel is centered on the Person of Jesus Christ-His death, burial, and resurrection. Paul made it clear he wanted to "remind you of the Gospel" (v.1).
As you can see your points are lacking. Paul made it quite clear what the Gospel is. You have rejected the clear teachings of God's Word. This is a shame. It is sad you would depart from the faith that has cost millions of lives (those who have stood for truth in the midst of persecution).
Rene, one receives the Holy Spirit when one believes in Christ. We see this clealry in Ephesians 1 where Paul states: Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit (v. 13). Belief is the only requirement not baptism to receive the Holy Spirit (see Ephesians 4:30).
Then why do you do that?
Quote C.Moore
you are correct I ask him the same question to answer way before about a righteous person goint to hell and he still didn`t answer the question, I ask him abot 1 cor and the new one about believer going to hell that love the Lord and are saved by the blood of Jesus and have a personal relationship but don`t get baptized go to hell and he side steped , and went to the baptismo loops and broken record concepts, which is a shame.
I am glad you also seen how he run with his tail between his leg when confronted with he truth and spiritual knowledgement and reasonings.
It is nothing new me and Freak went through this with His saving grace , Kevin ,and many others for years until they just stoped and found it is a waste of time and a waste of casting the pearl to swines.
It is like trying to bible whip people .
It is like debating and talking to the jhw and the mormonand muslim people , you go through this error loops and they even use the bible and certain scripture to justify their own doctrine and salvation message .
The world is really coming to an end so the devil has to use everyone he can get before the judgement to decieve, even religious people are the best one to decieve because they go on blind faith and belief.
Look at the catholics and their mary and other rituals they use a biblical obediences to get to heaven like rene is trying to do.
i asked Rene if he is a mormon who even baptize for the dead , but he said he isn`t but i think he would make a good memeber because they have this getting wet ritual of salvation and the condition to be accepted as a son of God or an saint is by a ritual work or you are doomed and damned and condemned by this loving God.
Again what a shame some religious people make the gospel and the good new of Christ ,now I can see why other non believer are chased away because of people like rene from Christ and the church.
baptism is not a requirement to be saved. This is utter blasphemy. The reason I brought up 1 Cor. 15 is twofold.
1> You will notice baptism is not mentioned. Because baptism is not part of the Gospel message.
2> The Gospel is centered on the Person of Jesus Christ-His death, burial, and resurrection. Paul made it clear he wanted to "remind you of the Gospel" (v.1).
As you can see your points are lacking. Paul made it quite clear what the Gospel is. You have rejected the clear teachings of God's Word. This is a shame. It is sad you would depart from the faith that has cost millions of lives (those who have stood for truth in the midst of persecution).
Rene, one receives the Holy Spirit when one believes in Christ. We see this clealry in Ephesians 1 where Paul states: Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit (v. 13). Belief is the only requirement not baptism to receive the Holy Spirit (see Ephesians 4:30).
Last edited:
rene
New member
STILL didn't answer the simple questions.
The questions have simple answers.
AGAIN,
"Can a person be a follower of Jesus that rejects and doesn't follow Him and His teaching?" A simple "YES" or "NO"
What is a person that misrepresents scriptures and the words of Jesus in favor of their own? A simple verse here that supports your comments and actions. I suggest looking at John 10:27 before you dig an even deeper pit than you already have for yourself.
What is a person that misrepresents and states falsehoods about someone? A simple verse here that supports your comments and actions. I suggest looking at Exodus 20:16 & 23:1, Deut. 19:16-20, Proverbs 6:19 & 12:17 & 19:5,9, Matthew 15:19.
These words that I have posted here now 5 times ring more true the more you avoid, "Why does a person not answer a direct question? Answer - because to do so means that they will have to face up to things that they don't want to. You know what I have written and supported with scripture that clearly states and supports what I have written esp. since I quoted the words of Jesus His instructions of baptism Not *MY* teaching like what you have in your stand, but the words of JESUS. Problem is that you have no verses that say that one can pick and choose which teaching they want to follow, that you get to make them up as you go along, no buffet approach to the teaching of Jesus.
There is no halfway with Jesus. You either follow His teachings or your not following Him. If not following Him, your not in Christ and you need to get in that position as quickly as you can repent and get there.
The questions have simple answers.
AGAIN,
"Can a person be a follower of Jesus that rejects and doesn't follow Him and His teaching?" A simple "YES" or "NO"
What is a person that misrepresents scriptures and the words of Jesus in favor of their own? A simple verse here that supports your comments and actions. I suggest looking at John 10:27 before you dig an even deeper pit than you already have for yourself.
What is a person that misrepresents and states falsehoods about someone? A simple verse here that supports your comments and actions. I suggest looking at Exodus 20:16 & 23:1, Deut. 19:16-20, Proverbs 6:19 & 12:17 & 19:5,9, Matthew 15:19.
These words that I have posted here now 5 times ring more true the more you avoid, "Why does a person not answer a direct question? Answer - because to do so means that they will have to face up to things that they don't want to. You know what I have written and supported with scripture that clearly states and supports what I have written esp. since I quoted the words of Jesus His instructions of baptism Not *MY* teaching like what you have in your stand, but the words of JESUS. Problem is that you have no verses that say that one can pick and choose which teaching they want to follow, that you get to make them up as you go along, no buffet approach to the teaching of Jesus.
There is no halfway with Jesus. You either follow His teachings or your not following Him. If not following Him, your not in Christ and you need to get in that position as quickly as you can repent and get there.
rene
New member
A simple study about Paul for those that like to claim that he somehow did away with baptism.
Acts 16:15 has the mention of baptism in connection with Paul outside of his own personal following of the teaching of Jesus. This is an important event - the first European convert. All within the household are baptized.
Acts 19:4-5 shows the difference between the baptism that John the Baptist practiced vs. what Jesus instructed to be done. When they found this out, they followed in the baptism as instructed by Jesus.
1 Cor. 1:2 starts the portion of scripture where Paul has to address the factions that were coming up
1 Cor. 1:13 addressed several of the factions by the names (Paul, Apollos, Cephas) of those that they follow vs. being a follower of Jesus and His teachings which is what they were taught. It wasn't based upon who did the baptism, but whom they were baptized for - which was none of them, but done as instructed by Jesus.
1 Cor. 1:14 tells us that it is those that are deacons that normally baptize (Acts 10:48).
1 Cor. 1:17 has Paul saying this not to do away with baptism (Rom. 6:3), but because his office/work within the church is to preach the gospel, to found churches, over see those churches. The factions that were dividing over baptism done by certain people "made of no effect" (Romans 4:14) because of their human reasoning which were not based on the teachings of Jesus which they taught.
1 Cor. 4:15 Paul makes clear that he did nothing of himself but all thru Christ (ref. again to 1 Cor. 1:14-17) - thus following the instructions given by Jesus.
1 Cor. 6:11 speaks to the verses above it and uses the Greek middle voice. "Washed" refers to the Christian's outward new birth of water, the sign of the inward setting apart to the Lord by the inspiration of the Spirit as the seed of new life (John 3:5, Eph. 5:26, Titus 3:5, Heb. 10:22).
1 Cor. 10:2-3 Paul gives instruction about the baptism of Jesus compared to Moses. Moses was God's servant that by the miracle of the cloud protected them, protected them thru the Red Sea, thus 'baptized unto him' (Exodus 14:31). "Baptized" in this verse is equivalent to "initiated". Paul's used it in his argument to the Corinthians that they, it is true, have been "baptized", but so also virtually were the Israelites of old. If the virtual baptism of the latter availed not to save them from the doom of lust, neither will the actual baptism of the former save them. There is a resemblance between the symbols also. The cloud and sea consist of water, and as these took the Israelites out of sight, and then restored them again to view, so the water does to the baptized. Christ is the pillar cloud that screens us from the heat of God's wrath. Christ as "the light of the world" is our "pillar of fire" to guide us in the darkness of the world. As the rock when smitten sent forth the waters, so Christ, having been once for all smitten, sends forth the waters of the Spirit. As the manna bruised in mills fed Israel, so Christ, "when it pleased the Lord to bruise Him," has become our spiritual food. A strong proof of inspiration is given in this fact, that the historical parts of Scripture, without the consciousness even of the authors, are covert prophecies of the future." (JFB Commentary)
1 Cor. 15:3 Paul addressed the belief and what it is based upon - Jesus and scripture in this chapter dealing with people and their misconceptions about resurrection.
Scripture is, according to Paul, the complete and sufficient rule in all that appertains to making "the man of God perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works" (2Tim. 3:16-17). It is by leaving Paul's God-inspired tradition for human traditions that problems come about.
The justification of Jesus in respect to His Spirit was effected by ALL that manifested that higher being, His words (Matt. 7:29; John 7:46), His works (John 2:11; John 3:2), by His Father's testimony at His baptism (Matt 3:17), and at the transfiguration (Matt 17:5), and especially by His resurrection (Acts 13:33; Rom. 1:4).
Candidates for baptism are presupposed to have had repentance and faith (for Paul often assumes in faith and charity that those addressed are what they profess to be, though in fact some of them were not so, 1Cor. 6:11), in which case baptism would be the visible "laver or regeneration" to them, "faith being thereby confirmed, and grace increased, by virtue of prayer to God".
"Born of (from) water and (no 'of' in Greek) the Spirit." The Word is the remote and anterior instrument of the new birth. Baptism, the proximate instrument. The Word, the instrument to the individual. Baptism, in relation to the Christian.
The laver of cleansing stood outside the door of the tabernacle, where the priest had to wash before entering the Holy Place. So we must wash in the laver of regeneration before we can enter the Church, whose members are "a royal priesthood." "Baptism by the Spirit" (whereof water baptism is the designed accompanying seal) makes the difference between Christian baptism and that of John. As Paul presupposes the outward Church is the visible community of the redeemed, so he speaks of baptism on the supposition that it answers to its idea; that all that is inward belonging to its completeness accompanied the outward. Outward baptism whatever is involved in the believing appropriation of the divine facts which it symbolizes, whatever is realized when baptism fully corresponds to its original design. So Gal. 3:27; language holding good only of those in whom the inward living communion and outward baptism coalesce. "Saved us" applies fully to those truly regenerate alone; in a general sense it may include many who, though put within reach of salvation, shall not finally be saved. "Regeneration" occurs only once more in New Testament, Matt 19:28, that is, the new birth of the heaven and earth at Christ's second coming to renew all material things, the human body included, when the creature, now travailing in labor-throes to the birth, shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. Regeneration, which now begins in the believer's soul, shall then be extended to his body, and thence to all creation.
Baptism is much more than "getting wet" to one that understands and is really following the one that instructed it to be done - that being following Jesus (Matt. 28:18-20)
Acts 16:15 has the mention of baptism in connection with Paul outside of his own personal following of the teaching of Jesus. This is an important event - the first European convert. All within the household are baptized.
Acts 19:4-5 shows the difference between the baptism that John the Baptist practiced vs. what Jesus instructed to be done. When they found this out, they followed in the baptism as instructed by Jesus.
1 Cor. 1:2 starts the portion of scripture where Paul has to address the factions that were coming up
1 Cor. 1:13 addressed several of the factions by the names (Paul, Apollos, Cephas) of those that they follow vs. being a follower of Jesus and His teachings which is what they were taught. It wasn't based upon who did the baptism, but whom they were baptized for - which was none of them, but done as instructed by Jesus.
1 Cor. 1:14 tells us that it is those that are deacons that normally baptize (Acts 10:48).
1 Cor. 1:17 has Paul saying this not to do away with baptism (Rom. 6:3), but because his office/work within the church is to preach the gospel, to found churches, over see those churches. The factions that were dividing over baptism done by certain people "made of no effect" (Romans 4:14) because of their human reasoning which were not based on the teachings of Jesus which they taught.
1 Cor. 4:15 Paul makes clear that he did nothing of himself but all thru Christ (ref. again to 1 Cor. 1:14-17) - thus following the instructions given by Jesus.
1 Cor. 6:11 speaks to the verses above it and uses the Greek middle voice. "Washed" refers to the Christian's outward new birth of water, the sign of the inward setting apart to the Lord by the inspiration of the Spirit as the seed of new life (John 3:5, Eph. 5:26, Titus 3:5, Heb. 10:22).
1 Cor. 10:2-3 Paul gives instruction about the baptism of Jesus compared to Moses. Moses was God's servant that by the miracle of the cloud protected them, protected them thru the Red Sea, thus 'baptized unto him' (Exodus 14:31). "Baptized" in this verse is equivalent to "initiated". Paul's used it in his argument to the Corinthians that they, it is true, have been "baptized", but so also virtually were the Israelites of old. If the virtual baptism of the latter availed not to save them from the doom of lust, neither will the actual baptism of the former save them. There is a resemblance between the symbols also. The cloud and sea consist of water, and as these took the Israelites out of sight, and then restored them again to view, so the water does to the baptized. Christ is the pillar cloud that screens us from the heat of God's wrath. Christ as "the light of the world" is our "pillar of fire" to guide us in the darkness of the world. As the rock when smitten sent forth the waters, so Christ, having been once for all smitten, sends forth the waters of the Spirit. As the manna bruised in mills fed Israel, so Christ, "when it pleased the Lord to bruise Him," has become our spiritual food. A strong proof of inspiration is given in this fact, that the historical parts of Scripture, without the consciousness even of the authors, are covert prophecies of the future." (JFB Commentary)
1 Cor. 15:3 Paul addressed the belief and what it is based upon - Jesus and scripture in this chapter dealing with people and their misconceptions about resurrection.
Scripture is, according to Paul, the complete and sufficient rule in all that appertains to making "the man of God perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works" (2Tim. 3:16-17). It is by leaving Paul's God-inspired tradition for human traditions that problems come about.
The justification of Jesus in respect to His Spirit was effected by ALL that manifested that higher being, His words (Matt. 7:29; John 7:46), His works (John 2:11; John 3:2), by His Father's testimony at His baptism (Matt 3:17), and at the transfiguration (Matt 17:5), and especially by His resurrection (Acts 13:33; Rom. 1:4).
Candidates for baptism are presupposed to have had repentance and faith (for Paul often assumes in faith and charity that those addressed are what they profess to be, though in fact some of them were not so, 1Cor. 6:11), in which case baptism would be the visible "laver or regeneration" to them, "faith being thereby confirmed, and grace increased, by virtue of prayer to God".
"Born of (from) water and (no 'of' in Greek) the Spirit." The Word is the remote and anterior instrument of the new birth. Baptism, the proximate instrument. The Word, the instrument to the individual. Baptism, in relation to the Christian.
The laver of cleansing stood outside the door of the tabernacle, where the priest had to wash before entering the Holy Place. So we must wash in the laver of regeneration before we can enter the Church, whose members are "a royal priesthood." "Baptism by the Spirit" (whereof water baptism is the designed accompanying seal) makes the difference between Christian baptism and that of John. As Paul presupposes the outward Church is the visible community of the redeemed, so he speaks of baptism on the supposition that it answers to its idea; that all that is inward belonging to its completeness accompanied the outward. Outward baptism whatever is involved in the believing appropriation of the divine facts which it symbolizes, whatever is realized when baptism fully corresponds to its original design. So Gal. 3:27; language holding good only of those in whom the inward living communion and outward baptism coalesce. "Saved us" applies fully to those truly regenerate alone; in a general sense it may include many who, though put within reach of salvation, shall not finally be saved. "Regeneration" occurs only once more in New Testament, Matt 19:28, that is, the new birth of the heaven and earth at Christ's second coming to renew all material things, the human body included, when the creature, now travailing in labor-throes to the birth, shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. Regeneration, which now begins in the believer's soul, shall then be extended to his body, and thence to all creation.
Baptism is much more than "getting wet" to one that understands and is really following the one that instructed it to be done - that being following Jesus (Matt. 28:18-20)
c.moore
New member
Then Rene you will do good as following all the laws including the old laws.
Yes obey them all so you can qualify for heaven and don`t be damned.
If I had your understanding of a obedience to stay in a family I would have threw my kids out long time ago , specially as often they have not obeyed what I said .
But i have good news they are still in my family as my sons.
So I know God is more loving than me so I know he will not kick people out who don`t obey every law or command as you think.
Yes obey them all so you can qualify for heaven and don`t be damned.
If I had your understanding of a obedience to stay in a family I would have threw my kids out long time ago , specially as often they have not obeyed what I said .
But i have good news they are still in my family as my sons.
So I know God is more loving than me so I know he will not kick people out who don`t obey every law or command as you think.
rene
New member
Have you actual READ what you wrote?? It makes no sense what so ever!
The questions have simple answers.
AGAIN,
"Can a person be a follower of Jesus that rejects and doesn't follow Him and His teaching?" A simple "YES" or "NO"
What is a person that misrepresents scriptures and the words of Jesus in favor of their own? A simple verse here that supports your comments and actions. I suggest looking at John 10:27 before you dig an even deeper pit than you already have for yourself.
What is a person that misrepresents and states falsehoods about someone? A simple verse here that supports your comments and actions. I suggest looking at Exodus 20:16 & 23:1, Deut. 19:16-20, Proverbs 6:19 & 12:17 & 19:5,9, Matthew 15:19.
The questions have simple answers.
AGAIN,
"Can a person be a follower of Jesus that rejects and doesn't follow Him and His teaching?" A simple "YES" or "NO"
What is a person that misrepresents scriptures and the words of Jesus in favor of their own? A simple verse here that supports your comments and actions. I suggest looking at John 10:27 before you dig an even deeper pit than you already have for yourself.
What is a person that misrepresents and states falsehoods about someone? A simple verse here that supports your comments and actions. I suggest looking at Exodus 20:16 & 23:1, Deut. 19:16-20, Proverbs 6:19 & 12:17 & 19:5,9, Matthew 15:19.
rene
New member
I am not going down any more rabbit trails with "Moore" till he addresses the questions that have been asked for PAGES within this thread - - LONG BEFORE he came up with his most recent ones that he is using to avoid answering. I have done so in the past - and he two-stepped his way away from answering. This time - - I am standing firm.
This isn't the first time that he has asked this same question that I have repeatedly answered. He likes to ignore that - but that doesn't change the fact that I have - as well as others having done so as well upon the thread. Time for "Moore" to quit playing games and simply answer the questions and see how they line up with scripture, the teachings of Jesus. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that his teaching about baptism is a far cry from what Jesus instructed in Matthew 28:18-20.
This isn't the first time that he has asked this same question that I have repeatedly answered. He likes to ignore that - but that doesn't change the fact that I have - as well as others having done so as well upon the thread. Time for "Moore" to quit playing games and simply answer the questions and see how they line up with scripture, the teachings of Jesus. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that his teaching about baptism is a far cry from what Jesus instructed in Matthew 28:18-20.
rene
New member
Let's see if Mark 16:16 supports the thought that one doesn't have to follow the teaching of Jesus.....
Mark 16:16 Anyone who believes me and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to believe me will be condemned.
To believe - one is a follower. Christians follow Jesus. Christians believe in Jesus. What did Jesus instruct?? Hint Matthew 28:18-20? Anywhere within that verse a suggestion that the teaching given by Jesus are 'optional' as Moore likes to teach? Which teaching should a Christian follow - Moores or Jesus? What happens to those that do not believe/follow the teachings of Jesus as can be seen from this scripture?
Mark 16:16 Anyone who believes me and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to believe me will be condemned.
To believe - one is a follower. Christians follow Jesus. Christians believe in Jesus. What did Jesus instruct?? Hint Matthew 28:18-20? Anywhere within that verse a suggestion that the teaching given by Jesus are 'optional' as Moore likes to teach? Which teaching should a Christian follow - Moores or Jesus? What happens to those that do not believe/follow the teachings of Jesus as can be seen from this scripture?
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rene
New member
Moore - I didn't say anything. I pointed out what it DIDN'T SAY AND COMPARED IT TO WHAT YOU TEACH.
Do you know who taught the teachings found at Mark 16:16?? Answer: JESUS.
So seems that there is yet ANOTHER TEACHING of JESUS that you don't like.
What is a Christian? One that is in relationship with Jesus. What did Jesus instruct about being in relationship with Him and how to est. that relationship? That they follow Him and His teachings. What does Jesus teach?
See, what you got is you doing the buffet approach to scripture - don't like one, toss it out and make up your own. That isn't what any of the apostles did - though I will say that you like to pick thru their comments and ignore other comments that make clear that what you suggest that it means couldn't possibly be true. You ignore the fact that the letters which became books within the NT were written to CHRISTIANS! Thus your suggestion of them not bringing up something - something that they already would have done if they indeed were following the instructions given by Jesus about the est. of disciples - is total foolishness.
By the way - when Jesus spoke the words in Mark 16:16 - He was in His resurrected body - just as He was in Matthew 28:18-20. Jesus est. a new covenant as promised within the old (Hebrew 12:24) - a covenant approved of God - not just the parts Jesus taught that you like - but all.
What exactly is it that you follow with some much conflict with the teachings of Jesus?
And STILL NO ANSWER TO THE QUESTION
AGAIN
"Can a person be a follower of Jesus that rejects and doesn't follow Him and His teaching?" A simple "YES" or "NO"
What is a person that misrepresents scriptures and the words of Jesus in favor of their own? A simple verse here that supports your comments and actions. I suggest looking at John 10:27 before you dig an even deeper pit than you already have for yourself.
What is a person that misrepresents and states falsehoods about someone? A simple verse here that supports your comments and actions. I suggest looking at Exodus 20:16 & 23:1, Deut. 19:16-20, Proverbs 6:19 & 12:17 & 19:5,9, Matthew 15:19.
Do you know who taught the teachings found at Mark 16:16?? Answer: JESUS.
So seems that there is yet ANOTHER TEACHING of JESUS that you don't like.
What is a Christian? One that is in relationship with Jesus. What did Jesus instruct about being in relationship with Him and how to est. that relationship? That they follow Him and His teachings. What does Jesus teach?
See, what you got is you doing the buffet approach to scripture - don't like one, toss it out and make up your own. That isn't what any of the apostles did - though I will say that you like to pick thru their comments and ignore other comments that make clear that what you suggest that it means couldn't possibly be true. You ignore the fact that the letters which became books within the NT were written to CHRISTIANS! Thus your suggestion of them not bringing up something - something that they already would have done if they indeed were following the instructions given by Jesus about the est. of disciples - is total foolishness.
By the way - when Jesus spoke the words in Mark 16:16 - He was in His resurrected body - just as He was in Matthew 28:18-20. Jesus est. a new covenant as promised within the old (Hebrew 12:24) - a covenant approved of God - not just the parts Jesus taught that you like - but all.
What exactly is it that you follow with some much conflict with the teachings of Jesus?
And STILL NO ANSWER TO THE QUESTION
AGAIN
"Can a person be a follower of Jesus that rejects and doesn't follow Him and His teaching?" A simple "YES" or "NO"
What is a person that misrepresents scriptures and the words of Jesus in favor of their own? A simple verse here that supports your comments and actions. I suggest looking at John 10:27 before you dig an even deeper pit than you already have for yourself.
What is a person that misrepresents and states falsehoods about someone? A simple verse here that supports your comments and actions. I suggest looking at Exodus 20:16 & 23:1, Deut. 19:16-20, Proverbs 6:19 & 12:17 & 19:5,9, Matthew 15:19.
rene
New member
NO, you have NOT answered the question!
Yet AGAIN
"Can a person be a follower of Jesus that rejects and doesn't follow Him and His teaching?" A simple "YES" or "NO"
What is a person that misrepresents scriptures and the words of Jesus in favor of their own? A simple verse here that supports your comments and actions. I suggest looking at John 10:27 before you dig an even deeper pit than you already have for yourself.
What is a person that misrepresents and states falsehoods about someone? A simple verse here that supports your comments and actions. I suggest looking at Exodus 20:16 & 23:1, Deut. 19:16-20, Proverbs 6:19 & 12:17 & 19:5,9, Matthew 15:19.
You have yet to address ANY of the questions I have asked - not ONE!
Yet AGAIN
"Can a person be a follower of Jesus that rejects and doesn't follow Him and His teaching?" A simple "YES" or "NO"
What is a person that misrepresents scriptures and the words of Jesus in favor of their own? A simple verse here that supports your comments and actions. I suggest looking at John 10:27 before you dig an even deeper pit than you already have for yourself.
What is a person that misrepresents and states falsehoods about someone? A simple verse here that supports your comments and actions. I suggest looking at Exodus 20:16 & 23:1, Deut. 19:16-20, Proverbs 6:19 & 12:17 & 19:5,9, Matthew 15:19.
You have yet to address ANY of the questions I have asked - not ONE!
c.moore
New member
I say it again i answered your question .
here it is again I will copy the post for you.
quote:
Originally posted by rene
Yet AGAIN, "Can a person be a follower of Jesus that rejects and doesn't follow Him and His teaching?"
What is a person that misrepresents scriptures and the words of Jesus in favor of their own?
What is a person that misrepresents and states falsehoods about someone?
Why does a person not answer a direct question? Answer - because to do so means that they will have to face up to things that they don't want to.
when they extra reject just like a unbeliever does then of course they are not a follower so the answer is no, they don`t really believe and they are not saved.
they have a lack of knowledge a baby christian maybe.
no, it because it can be play on words
did you see your answer to the no and yes answer yet rene or do you need glasses??
here it is again I will copy the post for you.
quote:
Originally posted by rene
Yet AGAIN, "Can a person be a follower of Jesus that rejects and doesn't follow Him and His teaching?"
What is a person that misrepresents scriptures and the words of Jesus in favor of their own?
What is a person that misrepresents and states falsehoods about someone?
Why does a person not answer a direct question? Answer - because to do so means that they will have to face up to things that they don't want to.
when they extra reject just like a unbeliever does then of course they are not a follower so the answer is no, they don`t really believe and they are not saved.
they have a lack of knowledge a baby christian maybe.
no, it because it can be play on words
did you see your answer to the no and yes answer yet rene or do you need glasses??