The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

[rene]

1 Cor. 15 is NOT the topic. HELLO?? Your stand on baptism is since it goes directly against the instructions given by Jesus are!

I also showed - tho you again evidently didn't grasp - the words of Paul and his support of baptism as taught by Jesus.

Two stepping is not only popular in Texas it seems.....

 

[c.moore]

But jesus gave this instruction before the new testiment and before he died.
the new birth came after the cross and the blood of Christ was shed.

it is faith and the grace and mercy of God that make us sons and daughter in Christ , which is clearly explain in 1 Cor 15.

 

[rene]

Are you for REAL with the comment below??

But jesus gave this instruction before the new testiment and before he died.
the new birth came after the cross and the blood of Christ was shed.

So OUT with the prophets and teachings in what many call the 'old testament' - even though there are many left to be fulfilled. Ignore all of Moses, David, Samuel, and Solomon - all the prophets of old. No NEED to teach THEM NOW. No NEED to consider things like the 'Sermon on the Mount', no NEED to consider scriptures like John 3:16-17 - cause Jesus hadn't DIED??? No to mention - that such an approach makes every thing that Jesus taught of NO VALUE???

Are you for real??? Do you not see the lack of WISDOM even in making such a suggestion???

Just who is filling your head with this sort of mess? I know that it isn't from the bible - because the bible doesn't support such at all!

Then there is the FACT that what Jesus spoke in Matthew 28:18-20 was instructed AFTER His resurrection...... Which then makes your own comments a judgment against you stand – which actually may be the FIRST thing that you have been accurate on in all of this.

 

[c.moore]

No I am correct and read 1 Cor 15 again it has a salvation message in it and that is the free grave guven to us by faith in Jesus not a work or law to earn righteousness, as you claim.

You just can`t see the gospel as it is because it is to easy, and is a mind blower to see it is a choice to make and be righteous as you want the salvation message to be earned and qualified by righteous work to get saved and then after doing all you should and can do maybe you are saved and again this is the cart before the horse anology and your theory .
if this was the case I wouldn`t be saved today and millians of others would be in hell also.

That why i thank God for the free grace and His mercy freely given and freely chosen to take not to earn or it wouldn`t be grace.

 

[rene]

What you are failing to see is that your supposded points are not points at all.

Have repeatedly shown you thru scripture that your teaching is not the same as the teaching of Jesus. You have misapplied and misrepresented scripture as repeatedly shown from scripture. You have made statements about Paul even though his own words found in scripture refute your words, your teachings.

You then tried to say that any teaching that was before His death didn't need to be followed - which then puts your teaching of baptism even on weaker ground since Matt. 28:18-20 was AFTER His resurrection!

But BLINDLY you go on, digging for yourself a deeper hole - ignoring what is within the bible, taking preference to your own teaching vs. the teaching of Jesus.

Christian - the Greek word "Christianos" that comes from the word "Christos". "Christos" means 'the anointed', the 'Christ the Messiah, the Son of God'. "Christianos" means 'a follower of Christ'.

So again I ask the unanswered question that you keep avoiding. Can a person be a 'Christian' if they discount and do not follow the teachings of Jesus, the Christ, the Messiah, the Promised One, the one that only taught the will of God?

If one discounts a teaching of the Son of God whom Christians know only taught the will of God, is such the what God desires? Is it following after the will of God?

 

[c.moore]

yes, we follow Christ when we follow His spirit and that i s why we should be led by the Spirit so we can be sons and daughter , and not follow the old laws to get righteous and to obey.
we obey because we are led by the Spirit .
Ro:8:12: Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Ro:8:13: For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Ro:8:14: For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Ro:8:15: For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Ga:3:9: So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Ga:3:10: For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Ga:3:11: But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Ga:3:12: And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Ga:3:13: Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

so what do you live by??

So if you want to keep the old laws and what Jesus said to the Jews and otherts then you must keep all the laws Rene.

 

[rene]

STILL not answering.

Can one ignore, teach something opposite, knowingly, of their free will after repeatedly being shown that what they teach is opposite of what Jesus instructed and still be a Christian?

Baptism, if done as Jesus instructs to be done does NOT ignore the Spirit.

Mat 28:18 And having approached, Jesus spoke to them, saying, "All authority in heaven and on earth was given to Me.
Mat 28:19 "When you* have gone, make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to be observing all [things], as many as I commanded you*. And listen! _I_ am with you* all the days, until the conclusion of the age! So be it!" [Gr. amen, and throughout NT].

Jesus states all authority is given to Him. Jesus then instructs that when people become disciples, they are to be baptized. But not just any dunk in the water, but baptized in the faith of His teaching, Jesus' instructions, in His Father's name who gave Him all authority, in His name thru whom salvation comes, and in the Holy Spirit.

Your comments suggest that it is just 'getting wet' - when it is clearly anything but such because Jesus made it a point to come to them after His resurrection to give specific instructions. Instructions that you have your own version of vs. following the ones Jesus instructed to be followed.

Can a person be a follower of Jesus that rejects and doesn't follow Him and His teaching? Teaches opposite of His teachings in favor of their own version? Or should such a person repent?

- for if that were all that it was - why did Jesus instruct it to be done in a specific way? If it had no meaning, no purpose, why did Jesus instruct it to be done? Just so you could ignore it and have your own version??

 

[c.moore]

Mark 16:16

do those who are believer go to hell and are condemned and daned??

Is it the unbelievers who are damned??

Is the people who get wet and don`t believe are damned???

 

[rene]

I am not the one that is making changes to the bible and suggesting that my teaching is over the teaching of Jesus - that's your department and what you have been supporting.

God judges. *I* don't. So much for your question.

I tell people that they need to follow JESUS. Not to go the route of pick and choose/buffet style to following His teachings.

But lets take a full look at your suggest/question. Does one that is sharing the gospel of Jesus with someone ignore the parts that they think might offend someone? Something that they don't want to do? Or does one stick to scripture and the instructions given by Jesus, not ignore them, call them "minor", and make choice of personal teaching over the teaching of Jesus?

Ans STILL no answer to the question, "Can a person be a follower of Jesus that rejects and doesn't follow Him and His teaching?". No answers to the questions that I wrote.

 

[c.moore]

Originally posted by c.moore

Mark 16:16

do those who are believer go to hell and are condemned and daned??

Is it the unbelievers who are damned??

Is the people who get wet and don`t believe are damned???

can you answer the question or do we have to go back to the Jesus excuse loops?

 

[rene]

Moore - I have been asking the question that I have written above for - who knows how many pages and never once have you answered - while I have answered your comments, suggestions about myself that were not true, comments about me supposedly being part of a cult, etc. etc. etc. You even tried to suggest that teachings by Jesus that were pre-resurrection didn't have to be followed – till I showed you that the teaching in Matthew 28:18-20 was right before he ascended into heaven, most def. after the resurrection! I have shown the words of Jesus from the bible that you constantly want to avoid about HIS/Jesus teaching of followers of Him being baptized.

What we have is me trying to discuss a simple point while I ignore your misrepresentations of myself and insisting on keeping to the teaching given by Him within the bible - and you not answering but trying to divert by several means from the point - the point being following the teaching of Jesus. Time for YOU to step up and answer the simple question, "Can a person be a follower of Jesus that rejects and doesn't follow Him and His teaching?"

 

[c.moore]

first of all a person can`t follow what he is not already a chrisatian to want to follow.
so again the horse before the cart, and then you can get some where like obey the teaching of Christ as you are trying to point out.

That is why a person is first saved by the blood of Jesus and accepting Christ in their heart, and then.

read the bible which is the water of the word of God to grow and drink milk.
pray
go to church
get baptized
give offereing
do good works and etc.

 

[c.moore]

Originally posted by c.moore

Mark 16:16

do those who are believer go to hell and are condemned and daned??

Is it the unbelievers who are damned??

Is the people who get wet and don`t believe are damned???

 

[rene]

Yet AGAIN, "Can a person be a follower of Jesus that rejects and doesn't follow Him and His teaching?"

What is a person that misrepresents scriptures and the words of Jesus in favor of their own?

What is a person that misrepresents and states falsehoods about someone?

Why does a person not answer a direct question? Answer - because to do so means that they will have to face up to things that they don't want to.

 

[c.moore]

Originally posted by rene

Yet AGAIN, "Can a person be a follower of Jesus that rejects and doesn't follow Him and His teaching?"

What is a person that misrepresents scriptures and the words of Jesus in favor of their own?

What is a person that misrepresents and states falsehoods about someone?

Why does a person not answer a direct question? Answer - because to do so means that they will have to face up to things that they don't want to.

when they extra reject just like a unbeliever does thien of course they are not a follower so the answer is no, they don`t really believe and they are not saved.

they have a lack of knowledge a baby christian maybe.

no, it because it can be play on words.

 

[rene]

Sorry - but I have read this several times - and it isn't making sense at all. Want to try again??

Yet AGAIN -

"Can a person be a follower of Jesus that rejects and doesn't follow Him and His teaching?"

What is a person that misrepresents scriptures and the words of Jesus in favor of their own?

What is a person that misrepresents and states falsehoods about someone?

Why does a person not answer a direct question? Answer - because to do so means that they will have to face up to things that they don't want to.

 

[c.moore]

Originally posted by c.moore

first of all a person can`t follow what he is not already a chrisatian to want to follow.
so again the horse before the cart, and then you can get some where like obey the teaching of Christ as you are trying to point out.

That is why a person is first saved by the blood of Jesus and accepting Christ in their heart, and then.

read the bible which is the water of the word of God to grow and drink milk.
pray
go to church
get baptized
give offereing
do good works and etc.

 

[rene]

STILL NOT ANSWERING THE QUESTION!

Do you not grasp the simple question? Or is it that you just don't want to face the question because then your going to have to take a biblical look at your stands as they compare to the bible?

Yet AGAIN -

"Can a person be a follower of Jesus that rejects and doesn't follow Him and His teaching?"

What is a person that misrepresents scriptures and the words of Jesus in favor of their own?

What is a person that misrepresents and states falsehoods about someone?

Why does a person not answer a direct question? Answer - because to do so means that they will have to face up to things that they don't want to.

 

[c.moore]

first of all a person can`t follow what he is not already a chrisatian to want to follow.
so again the horse before the cart, and then you can get some where like obey the teaching of Christ as you are trying to point out.

 

[rene]

AGAIN, NO ANSWER TO THE SIMPLE QUESTION

AGAIN,

"Can a person be a follower of Jesus that rejects and doesn't follow Him and His teaching?"

What is a person that misrepresents scriptures and the words of Jesus in favor of their own?

What is a person that misrepresents and states falsehoods about someone?

Why does a person not answer a direct question? Answer - because to do so means that they will have to face up to things that they don't want to.