The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

[RightIdea]

If we are under no law, how can you claim we are under some absolute command to commit a certain work of obedience in order to receive salvation?

I'd like to know, since I have never been baptized in my three years of having been a born again Christian (and especially considering I'm working in an apologetics ministry, and therefore I better know, so I can teach it to others).

 

[Kevin]

RightIdea,

If we are under no law, how can you claim we are under some absolute command to commit a certain work of obedience in order to receive salvation?

The command of baptism in Christ's is not under the Law of Moses. Christ institued this command in Matt. 28: 19,20... after the law had been done away with by His crucifixion. Also note that His apostles would NOT go around practicing something that was part of the Law of Moses, which was done away with. But they did indeed practice the command of baptism in His name.

And we under the a law - the law of faith. But if you been following my posts, I have illstrated how faith that does not produce obedience is useless, just as it says in James 2:17. We know we are Christ's if we keep His commandments (1 John 2:3-6). We do His commandments because we love Him, not because we are earning anything. Christ says that if we truly love Him, that we should keep His commandments (John 14:15). Those who do His commandments are those who will have rights to the tree of life (Revelation 22:14), for those are the ones who truly love God.

I'd like to know, since I have never been baptized in my three years of having been a born again Christian

You see, I would beg to differ that you haven't been reborn if you haven't been baptized. I will refer you to one of my previous posts that speaks on this very thing. Please consider all that is said before drawing your conclusion:

I think that everybody who calls themselves a Christian would agree that our sins are forgiven by the blood of Christ.

Is there condition to having your sins forgiven by His blood? Absolutely, if there were no condition then everybody will make it to heaven, which, unfortunately will not happen. So, knowing that sinners will not inherit the kingdom of God, what condition does our Lord Jesus Christ say that must happen for us to make it to heaven? I'll let Him do the talking:

John: 3:3
3) Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

From this we can clearly see that one has to be born again to make it to heaven. Now, in order for one to be born "again", a death must occur. Why? Because:

• Logic demands it. Can one be born again into the Spirit while still living in his previous life of sin? Impossible. A death must occur so that a new life can begin.
  
• We must die with Christ in order to live with Christ (2 Tim. 2:11)

So this bring us to the question of how one dies with Christ. The Bible speaks clearly on this matter:

Romans 6:3-4
3) Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
4) Therefore we were buried with Him through BAPTISM into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

There is but ONE way to die with Christ, and I even took the liberty of underlining it: BAPTISM. That's how we die with Christ. I challenge anybody to show me, in the Bible, any other means by which we die with Christ.

Baptism is how we die with Christ, and it is he who has died with Christ who has been FREED from sin! (Romans 6:7). If you havn't died with Christ, you have NOT been freed from your sins! On the contraray, if you've died with Christ, yes- through baptism, then:

Romans 6:11
11) Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but ALIVE to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You HAVE to DIE to sin in order to be ALIVE to God. Baptism is how we die to sin, and through that death we are made ALIVE to God through Christ Jesus - being reborn! It is those who are reborn, dead to sin and alive to God through Christ, are the ones who will have their sins forgiven by the blood of Christ. The waters of baptism do NOT forgive our sins, but it is FOR the remission of our sins (Acts 2:38). The blood of Christ cleanses us of all sin, but ONLY if we do what we are commanded to do FOR the remission of those sins - BAPTISM! (Acts 2:38, Romans 6:7).

To reiterate what 2 Tim 2:11 says, if we want to live with Christ, we must also die with Christ, and the Bible clearly speaks on the matter of how one dies with Christ - Baptism.

 

[RightIdea]

Kevin -- ahhh, now I see where part of your misunderstanding lies. You are under the false impression that baptism begins in the New Testament and is not part of the Mosaic Law. But we find baptism in the book of Numbers 19 -- yes, in the Torah, my friend. In fact, it is still practiced today in Judaism. Baptism wasn't a new commandment instituted by Jesus after the Law was done away with. (Of course, the Law wasn't done away with, as it is a covenant with Israel which God said would never end but that's another debate. In fact, because water baptism is part of the Mosaic Law, and Jesus continued to preach water baptism, as did His apostles, this proves the Law wasn't done away with at all, as you say.)

 

[Kevin]

RightIdea,

Kevin -- ahhh, now I see where part of your misunderstanding lies. You are under the false impression that baptism begins in the New Testament and is not part of the Mosaic Law. But we find baptism in the book of Numbers 19 -- yes, in the Torah, my friend. In fact, it is still practiced today in Judaism. Baptism wasn't a new commandment instituted by Jesus after the Law was done away with. (Of course, the Law wasn't done away with, as it is a covenant with Israel which God said would never end but that's another debate. In fact, because water baptism is part of the Mosaic Law, and Jesus continued to preach water baptism, as did His apostles, this proves the Law wasn't done away with at all, as you say.)

I realise that baptism in itself was practiced in under the Mosaic Law. John the Baptist is proof of that. But at NO point in time during the Law were people being baptized in the name of Jesus. This baptism was instituted by Christ in Matt. 28: 19,20 - after His death which nailed the Law to the cross. Until that time, there was NO authority to baptize in His name. The baptism that Jesus instituted is an entirely different baptism than that of the ones performed under the Law.

An example of this can be found in Acts 19: 1-5, when people who were baptized into John's baptism were rebaptized in the name of the Lord, the very baptism institued by Christ after His death in Matt. 28:19,20. For it is by baptism in His name that allows us to die with Him and be free from sin and alive to God - being reborn.

Before Christ died, no baptism could possibly baptize us into His death, for He had not died yet! But when He instituted baptism in His name, it was after His death and therefore made it possible for us to be buried with Him into death through baptism (Romans 6:1-11), making us dead to sin and alive to God. No baptism that was under the Law could do this.

 

[JustAChristian]

Sorry For The Butt-in!

Sorry For The Butt-in!

Originally posted by Freak


You said: When you married your wife you made the commitment 1 time.

That is exactly my point. It is a one time event that made me a married person. Same with Christianity-take Christ into your life and you immediately become a Christian.

Now, Jesus will never leave us nor forsake us (even when we fail him). The Son of God once said: No one will be able to snatch them from my hand. That would include ourselves.

Just have one question. Why did Paul and the other New Testament writers send us so many letters warning us not to be careless with out Christianity (1 Cor 10:12 et al) Likewise, Paul warned...

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Salvation is contengent is stedfastness. We can leave Christ or we would have not been warned.

The conditional nature of the assurance of salvation is clearly taught. If one is willing to hear Jesus and follow him (do what he says) one can have the assurance of salvation.

Rom. 8:38,39 -- "For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

According to this passage nothing can "separate us from the love of God." Thus, some have concluded that the child of God cannot be lost. Although not teaching this, the passage does teach a marvelous sense of security. This passage as well as the entire chapter of Rom. 8 has to do with the wonderful blessings to be had in Christ. Some of those blessings are: no condemnation in Christ (Rom. 8:1), freedom from the law of sin and death (Rom. 8:2), life and peace in Christ (Rom. 8:6), the indwelling of the Spirit (Rom. 8:9), the promise of the resurrection (Rom. 8:11), the privilege of calling God his Father (Rom. 8:15), the witness of the Holy Spirit with our spirit (Rom. 8:16), heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ (Rom. 8:17), the intercession of the Spirit (Rom. 8:26), the promise that all things work together for good to those who love God (Rom. 8:28), and the promise that nothing shall separate us from the love of God (Rom. 8:38,39).

From all of the blessings that a child of God can have, it is clear that one should be a child of God above everything else. The child of God can have the assurance that God is on his side if the child of God is careful to be on God's side. As Jude observes in Jude 1:21, we must keep ourselves in the love of God. When we keep ourselves in God's love, nothing can separate us from God's love.


JustAChristian :angel:

 

[c.moore]

Originally posted by Freak


You said: When you married your wife you made the commitment 1 time.

That is exactly my point. It is a one time event that made me a married person. Same with Christianity-take Christ into your life and you immediately become a Christian.

Now, Jesus will never leave us nor forsake us (even when we fail him). The Son of God once said: No one will be able to snatch them from my hand. That would include ourselves.

Your thread is still going around the same mountain or the needle on the record is stuck in the same place , it needs a push.

What I think we need here is some of us to get a meek spirit so we can be teachable.

See you so Germany is waiting for you and your ministry.

God Bless:thumb:

 

[John Gault]

Two questions.

Can salvation involve more than what any one verse of Scripture says about it?

Can it involve less?

Based on the plain language of several passages in the NT, I am forced to answer “no” to the second question.

 

[JustAChristian]

Can Salvation's Plan be assigned to more than One Verse

Can Salvation's Plan be assigned to more than One Verse

Originally posted by John Gault
Two questions.

Can salvation involve more than what any one verse of Scripture says about it?

Can it involve less?

Based on the plain language of several passages in the NT, I am forced to answer “no” to the second question.

John,
I believe that no one verse contains all there is to know and do unto salvation. Jesus said that one must be a hearer, willing to obey it, of the gospel (John 12:47; 14:23), a believer in the Son of God (John 8:24), willing to repent of sins (Luke 13:3,5), willing to confess Christ publically (Matt. 10:22-23; Acts 8:37), and to be immersed in a watery grave of baptism in order to have one's sins spiritually washed away in the blood of Jesus Christ (Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; 1 Peter 3:21). This action on the part of the believer brings him into the spiritual body of Christ (Gal. 3:27; Acts 2:47) where salvation lies for the redeemed (Eph 5:23; Col. 1:18; Eph 1:22).

In Christ,
JustAChristian

 

[John Gault]

These are the five steps I learned as well.

These are the five steps I learned as well.

The doctrines taught to me as a boy involved everything Scripture had to say about a subject.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

JustAChristian uses Gal.5:4 in his attempt to prove that a Christian can leave Christ.However,it is obvious that the words of Paul in this instance is merely a "hypothetical" argument:

"Christ is become of no effect unto you,whosoever of you WHO ARE JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW;ye are fallen from grace"(Gal.5:4).

If it were possible for anyone to be justified by the law,then it would be possible to fall from grace.But the Scriptures reveal that NO ONE is justified by the law:

"But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God,it is evident;for,the just shall live by faith"(Gal.3:11).

"Therefore,by the deeds of law shall no flesh be justified in His sight"(Ro.3:20).

So it becomes obvious that the words of Paul are merely a hypothetical argument,and you cannot build doctrine on such aguments.

However,when the statement of Paul in the narrative of the Acts record reveals exactly how the sinner is saved,those who use the hypothethical argument want nothing to do with it AS IT IS WRITTEN.There we see the Philippian jailer ask,"Sirs,what must I do to be saved?"

And the words of Paul could not be any plainer:

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ,and thou shalt be saved,and thy house"(Acts16:31).

Now if submitting to the rite of water baptism is a requrement for salvation,then you can bet your bottom dollar that Paul would have added "water baptism" to his answer.But he did not.

These same people will argue that the ONE BAPTISM of Eph.4:5 is the rite of water baptism DESPITE the fact that it is obvious that the one baptism is the baptism of the Holy Spirit whereby the sinner receives eternal life when that Spirit baptizes him into the Body of Christ:

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body...the Body of Christ"(1Cor.12:13,27).

They would deny that the baptism by the Holy Spirit is the ONE BAPTISM and say that it is by submitting to a rite of water baptism is the one baptism.

They just cannot believe that it is the Spirit which gives life,and that eternal life is given to the sinner when he believes the gospel.The act of submitting to the rite of water baptism follows after one believes.It is the Word spoken in the power of the Holy Spirit that brings life.The words of the Lord Jesus Christ makes this plain:

"It is the Spirit that giveth life...The words that I speak unto you,they are Spirit,and they are life"(Jn.6:63).

In His grace,--Jerry

 

[John Gault]

By what authority do you disregard Scripture?

By what authority do you disregard Scripture?

Jerry:

By what authority do you disregard Scripture? And in doing so, what criteria do you use?

I think I should like to disregard the offering plate, but I need your help in justifying it.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

John:

By what authority do you accuse me of disregarding Scripture?

And what Scripture did I disregard in my post,in your OPINION?

In His grace,--Jerry

 

[JustAChristian]

JustAChristian uses Gal.5:4 et al

JustAChristian uses Gal.5:4 et al

Originally posted by Jerry Shugart
JustAChristian uses Gal.5:4 in his attempt to prove that a Christian can leave Christ.However,it is obvious that the words of Paul in this instance is merely a "hypothetical" argument:

"Christ is become of no effect unto you,whosoever of you WHO ARE JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW;ye are fallen from grace"(Gal.5:4).

If it were possible for anyone to be justified by the law,then it would be possible to fall from grace.But the Scriptures reveal that NO ONE is justified by the law:

"But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God,it is evident;for,the just shall live by faith"(Gal.3:11).

"Therefore,by the deeds of law shall no flesh be justified in His sight"(Ro.3:20).

So it becomes obvious that the words of Paul are merely a hypothetical argument,and you cannot build doctrine on such aguments.

However,when the statement of Paul in the narrative of the Acts record reveals exactly how the sinner is saved,those who use the hypothethical argument want nothing to do with it AS IT IS WRITTEN.There we see the Philippian jailer ask,"Sirs,what must I do to be saved?"

And the words of Paul could not be any plainer:

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ,and thou shalt be saved,and thy house"(Acts16:31).

Now if submitting to the rite of water baptism is a requrement for salvation,then you can bet your bottom dollar that Paul would have added "water baptism" to his answer.But he did not.

These same people will argue that the ONE BAPTISM of Eph.4:5 is the rite of water baptism DESPITE the fact that it is obvious that the one baptism is the baptism of the Holy Spirit whereby the sinner receives eternal life when that Spirit baptizes him into the Body of Christ:

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body...the Body of Christ"(1Cor.12:13,27).

They would deny that the baptism by the Holy Spirit is the ONE BAPTISM and say that it is by submitting to a rite of water baptism is the one baptism.

They just cannot believe that it is the Spirit which gives life,and that eternal life is given to the sinner when he believes the gospel.The act of submitting to the rite of water baptism follows after one believes.It is the Word spoken in the power of the Holy Spirit that brings life.The words of the Lord Jesus Christ makes this plain:

"It is the Spirit that giveth life...The words that I speak unto you,they are Spirit,and they are life"(Jn.6:63).

In His grace,--Jerry

Jerry says:
However,when the statement of Paul in the narrative of the Acts record reveals exactly how the sinner is saved,those who use the hypothethical argument want nothing to do with it AS IT IS WRITTEN.There we see the Philippian jailer ask,"Sirs,what must I do to be saved?"
And the words of Paul could not be any plainer:

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ,and thou shalt be saved,and thy house"(Acts16:31).

Jerry, what does it mean to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ? Is this an act on someone's part. Is this a work of man? Is man doing something when he believes on the Lord Jesus Christ?

Jerry said:
Now if submitting to the rite of water baptism is a requrement for salvation,then you can bet your bottom dollar that Paul would have added "water baptism" to his answer.But he did not.

But he did Jerry, didn't you read...

“...And they spake the word of the Lord unto him, with all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, immediately.
(Acts 16:32-33 ASV). Paul and Silas preached the "power of God unto salvation; the gospel" (Romans 1:16) and just like Philip when he preached to the eunuch on the road to Gaza, he believed the gospel and wanted to be baptized. Paul or Silas immersed him and his believing household into the spiritual body of Christ that very evening. Why, because he that believes and is baptized shall be saved (Mark 16:16).

When Philip was preaching Jesus to the eunuch, what statement did Philip use to prompt the nobleman to want to be baptized? It is not recorded, is it Jerry? But, the eunuch knew from something that Philip said that he needed to be baptized. We only have what the Holy Spirit led Luke to write. It is found elsewhere that it is necessary to be immersed, and duplication is not necessary at this time. I don't see how you missed that. Did you just want to read only verse 31 and nothing more? Shame, Jerry! Shame!

Jerry said:
These same people will argue that the ONE BAPTISM of Eph.4:5 is the rite of water baptism DESPITE the fact that it is obvious that the one baptism is the baptism of the Holy Spirit whereby the sinner receives eternal life when that Spirit baptizes him into the Body of Christ:

The one baptism of Eph. 4:5 is the baptism where one goes down into the water and comes out of the water (Acts 8:38; Rom. 6:3-5). You can't go down into the Holy Spirit nor can you come out of the Holy Spirit. You should use your brain more, Jerry to understand the scriptures. Eph. 4:5 is baptism in water for the remission of sins.

Jerry said:

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body...the Body of Christ"(1Cor.12:13,27).

The Holy Spirit is the agent of God and not the element in Paul's lesson, Jerry. Can't you see that or want you see that?

Jerry said:

They would deny that the baptism by the Holy Spirit is the ONE BAPTISM and say that it is by submitting to a rite of water baptism is the one baptism.

Jesus gave the parameters, Jerry, not me!(Matthew 28:18-20).

Jerry said:
They just cannot believe that it is the Spirit which gives life,and that eternal life is given to the sinner when he believes the gospel.

On the contrary, Jerry, but it is the "words" that Jesus spoke that gives spiritual life when they are heard and obeyed ( John 6:63) Jesus also said:

"He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life: and I will raise him up at the last day." (John 6:54 ASV).
Have you eaten the flesh of Jesus and drunk his blood, Jerry? If you haven't you don't have eternal life.

Jerry said:
The act of submitting to the rite of water baptism follows after one believes.It is the Word spoken in the power of the Holy Spirit that brings life.

Again, you need to qualify your terms, Jerry. What does "believes" mean in your statement?

Symbolism needs to be understood in order to give proper biblical interpretation. Water is symbolized as a grave in Romans 6. We are buried in the grave of water. A grave consist of a hole, dirt and covering up. When we understand this we can understand the implications of the burial. Not only did Paul say that we are baptized into Jesus Christ (Rom. 6:3), but he goes on to say that we are "baptized into his death." It was in Christ's death that he shed his blood, and his blood is that which remits sin. However, we must come into contact with his blood before our sins can be remitted. Where do we contact the blood of Christ? Paul tells us that it is in baptism. If he shed his blood in his death (and he did), and we are baptized into his death (and we are), then it is in baptism that we come into contact with the blood of Christ, which is able to remit sin. If not, why not?

In the latter part of Gal. 3:27, Paul states that in baptism we "put on Christ." Again we come to symbolism. This can not be accomplished in Holy Spirit, for the Spirit would be put on us. We would not be putting on Christ. Let me use a very simple illustration which all should be able to understand. Until a person puts on his coat, he is out of the coat. Once he has put the coat on, he is in the coat. Just so it is in our relation to Christ. We are out of Christ until we put Christ on, and Paul plainly states that we put Christ on in baptism. Therefore, until one is baptized "into Christ" he is out of Christ, because he has not put Christ on! I can hardly see how anyone can possibly misunderstand such plain, simple language, and yet there are thousands who seemingly cannot understand this, because they shout long and loud that baptism is not essential to salvation.

The apostles were baptized with the Holy Spirit and those who believed Peter's preaching were baptized in water in the name of Christ on the same day. Cornelius was baptized with the Holy Spirit and the same day, likely within the same hour, was baptized in water in the name of Christ.
Jesus told Nicodemus that without being "born of water and of the Spirit" one can not enter this spiritual family, the church (John 3:1-8). "Born of water and of the Spirit" refers to the one new birth, accomplished when one is baptized in water according to (or, as directed by) the Holy Spirit (John 3:3-5). Holy Spirit baptism was never meant for all people. Many examples are shown in Acts of people who were not Holy Spirit baptized but rejoiced in their relationship to Christ.

Holy Spirit baptism was never given as a command. How could it be? It was administered by deity, not men. And it was administered at a time and under circumstances chosen by deity, not by men. Water baptism, on the other hand, was given by command (Acts 2:38; Acts 10:47,48; Acts 22:16). This is a baptism administered by men, and when performed scripturally is approved of God. And it is a baptism men submit to of their own free will. At a time of their choosing, in obedience to the Lord's command.

The one baptism of Eph. 4 is Christian era baptism. It is the baptism that is commanded. And it was designed to remain in effect until the end of the earth (Matthew 28:18-20). It is not the baptism of John. It is not the baptism of fire. And it is not the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Christian era baptism consists of immersion in water (Acts 8:38). Its prerequisites are faith, repentance, and confession (Mark 16:15,16; Acts 2:38; Acts 8:37). It, therefore, is not for infants. It is administered in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Matt. 28:19,20). And, it is for the remission of sins and for union with Christ (Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; Galatians 3 :26-27; Romans 6:3-5).

Summarizing, let me say that baptism is the door to forgiveness of sins. Why?, because it is at this point of obedience that one comes in contact with the death of Christ. It is only in the death of Christ that we may find salvation. And it is only in baptism that we may contact the death of Christ (Rom. 6:1-6). Paul affirms that we are baptized into his death, that is the death of Christ, and that is very important. Some contend that baptism only symbolizes a dying to sin on our part, in turning from our sins; that the only death connected with baptism is the spiritual dying to sin that occurs within us. But this simply is not true. It is true that a dying to sin occurs within us in conversion. But it is not true that this dying to sin is all that baptism represents. Paul's teaching is that we are baptized into the death of Jesus. So remember, now, we are baptized into the one body (1 Cor. 12:13); Christ is the savior of the body (Eph. 5:23); we are baptized into Christ (Rom. 6:3; Gal. 3:27); into his death (Rom. 6:3) where his blood was shed; and in baptism we put on Christ (Gal. 3:27). In view of such plain passages, how can anyone honestly feel that water baptism is unimportant and has no validity? How can they say that we can be cleansed and saved any other way?

JustAChristian :angel:

 

[John Gault]

I'm not ashamed to say by my own authority.

I'm not ashamed to say by my own authority.

Jerry:

To answer your first question: By my own authority.

I reassert here my first question: By what authority do you disregard Scripture? If you fail to answer this time, I will understand you are inferring your own authority as well.

To answer your second question, I refer you to JustAChristian's post of 1:25 p.m. and your subsequent response at 1:56 p.m.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

JustAChristian

Yes,the Phillipian jailer was baptized with water AFTER he believed.

And we can see that you just add words to what the Lord said in order to make it fit your idea.It is His words by which the sinner is born again:

"Being born again,not of corruptible seed,but of incorruptible seed,BY THE WORD OF GOD"(1Pet.1:23).

Why can´t you believe the HOLY SCRIPTURES as IT IS WRITTEN?

We are baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit upon believing.Anything that comes after that can in no way save anyone.

When the sinner believes the WORD OF GOD at that time he is born of God.And being born of God is not accomplished through the "will of the flesh" nor of the "will of man".And that rules out the idea that anyone is born of God by submitting to the rite of water baptism--because it is impossible for a man to submit to that rite apart from his will:

"Who were born,not of blood,NOR OF THE WILL OF THE FLESH,NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN,but of God"(Jn.1:13).

"So,then,it is NOT OF HIM WHO WILLETH,nor of him that runneth,but of God Who showeth mercy"(Ro.9:16).

So add all the words to Scripture that you want,but that does not change the answer Paul gave to the question as to how one is saved:

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ,and thou shalt be saved"(Acts16:31).

In His grace,--Jerry

 

[Jerry Shugart]

John:

Here is my authority:

"Preach the word;be diligent in season,out of season;REPROVE,rebuke,exhort with all long suffering and DOCTRINE"(2Tim.4:2).

And it is by His word that I do this:

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine,for reproof,FOR CORRECTION..."(2Tim.3:16).

In His grace,--Jerry

 

[JustAChristian]

Yes,the Phillipian jailer was baptized et al

Yes,the Phillipian jailer was baptized et al

Originally posted by Jerry Shugart
JustAChristian

Yes,the Phillipian jailer was baptized with water AFTER he believed.

And we can see that you just add words to what the Lord said in order to make it fit your idea.It is His words by which the sinner is born again:

"Being born again,not of corruptible seed,but of incorruptible seed,BY THE WORD OF GOD"(1Pet.1:23).

Why can´t you believe the HOLY SCRIPTURES as IT IS WRITTEN?

We are baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit upon believing.Anything that comes after that can in no way save anyone.

When the sinner believes the WORD OF GOD at that time he is born of God.And being born of God is not accomplished through the "will of the flesh" nor of the "will of man".And that rules out the idea that anyone is born of God by submitting to the rite of water baptism--because it is impossible for a man to submit to that rite apart from his will:

"Who were born,not of blood,NOR OF THE WILL OF THE FLESH,NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN,but of God"(Jn.1:13).

"So,then,it is NOT OF HIM WHO WILLETH,nor of him that runneth,but of God Who showeth mercy"(Ro.9:16).

So add all the words to Scripture that you want,but that does not change the answer Paul gave to the question as to how one is saved:

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ,and thou shalt be saved"(Acts16:31).

In His grace,--Jerry

Jerry says:
Yes,the Phillipian jailer was baptized with water AFTER he believed.

Well, isn't that the way it is supposed to be?

Jerry says:
And we can see that you just add words to what the Lord said in order to make it fit your idea.It is His words by which the sinner is born again:

Jerry, pray tell us what words I have added to make it fit my idea?

Jerry says:
"Being born again,not of corruptible seed,but of incorruptible seed,BY THE WORD OF GOD"
(1Pet.1:23).

Why can ́t you believe the HOLY SCRIPTURES as IT IS WRITTEN?

I have no problem with that verse, Jerry.

Jerry says:
We are baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit upon believing.Anything that comes after that can in no way save anyone.

Do we go down into the Holy Spirit and come out of the Holy Spirit? If not, then how are we obeying the baptism of Eph. 4:5?

Jerry says:
When the sinner believes the WORD OF GOD at that time he is born of God.And being born of God is not accomplished through the "will of the flesh" nor of the "will of man".And that rules out the idea that anyone is born of God by submitting to the rite of water baptism--because it is impossible for a man to submit to that rite apart from his will:

Jerry, I asked you in the last post to give me your understanding of the term "believe". Didn't I ask you if "believe" is a work of man? Didn't I? You didn't answer, Jerry. Why didn't you do that, Jerry? Why?

Jerry says...
"Who were born,not of blood,NOR OF THE WILL OF THE FLESH,NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN,but of God"(Jn.1:13).

Being born again is not a fleshly act, an answer to a lustful desire, but answering to the commandment (will ) of God.

Jerry says..
"So,then,it is NOT OF HIM WHO WILLETH,nor of him that runneth,but of God Who showeth mercy"(Ro.9:16)


Isn't it great to know that God can and will save the obedient. Where would Noah be today if he hadn't obeyed and built the ark? Where would Abraham be today if he hadn't left his country and traveled to the land of Canaan? You see, Jerry, there has to be an action on our part in order for God to respond on his part. You see, we are saved by GRACE THROUGH FAITH and not faith alone.

Jerry said...

So add all the words to Scripture that you want,but that does not change the answer Paul gave to the question as to how one is saved:

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ,and thou shalt be saved"(Acts16:31).

Why didn't Philip tell the Samaritan this and the eunuch also? Were they saved another way? Did the jailor repent of sins? Isn't this a part of the gospel? (see Luke 13:3,5). Was the jailor saved outside of Christ? Doesn't baptism put one into Christ? (Gal. 3:27).

In Christ,

JustAChristian

 

[JustAChristian]

The Biblical Purpose For Baptism...

The Biblical Purpose For Baptism...

The Biblical Purpose Of Baptism

Baptism is one of the most common practices of all
the groups claiming to be Christian. Baptism is
mentioned so often in the New Testament that everyone agrees it is part
of Christianity. Although everyone recognizes that baptism is good and
that all who follow Jesus should be baptized, there is great controversy
over why we should be baptized.

Some people claim that baptism is "an outward sign of
inward grace."

When they say this, they do not quote Scripture to prove it.
Why not? The answer is simple, the Bible never
says this is the purpose of baptism! Some baptize to make people members
of their particular denomination. Although this may be the purpose of
baptism in that denomination, that is not the Biblical purpose of
baptism. All of the modern denominations were formed centuries after the
New Testament was written so it is impossible that the Bible could teach
that baptism makes one a member of a denomination.

Others teach that baptism is something that one does to
show the world that he is now a Christian.

This may sound reasonable, but once again, there is no
passage in the Bible that teaches this is the purpose of baptism. All
lovers of the truth understand it doesn't make any difference what any
creed book, catechism or denomination may teach. The only thing that
really matters is finding out what the Bible teaches. Only then can we
know the Biblical purpose of baptism.

Jesus said, "He that believes and is baptized will be
saved" (Mark 16:16). He didn't say, "He that
believes will be saved and then he will be baptized to show it," as many
modern denominations teach. When you hear modern preachers today, do
you hear them teaching what Jesus taught concerning baptism?

After the Apostles received the Holy Spirit on the
day of Pentecost, Peter rebuked the Jews in Jerusalem
for murdering Jesus. When these Jews recognized
their guilt, they asked, "What shall we do?" Peter's answer was,
"Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus
Christ for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38). How often do you hear
modern preachers teaching the same thing that the apostle Peter did
concerning the purpose of baptism?

When some read that Peter said we are baptized
"for the remission of sins," they try to twist his words to
mean we are baptized "because we are already forgiven."

The fallacy of this reasoning can be seen when we
compare Matthew 26:28 to Acts 2:38.
While Jesus was with the apostles just before His arrest, we can read,
"Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying,
'Drink from it, all of you. For this is My blood of the new covenant,
which is shed for many for the remission of sins'" (Matthew 26:27-28).
Notice the REASON Jesus gives for the shedding of His blood. It was
"for the remission of sins." It doesn't matter whether we read this in
the Greek or English, it is still the same reason Peter said we are to
be baptized. No one argues that Jesus shed His blood "because we have
already been forgiven." To be consistent, they should not argue that
Peter taught that we are baptized "because we have already been
forgiven."

Some are willing to admit that we are baptized for the
remission of sins just as Peter said, but then they argue that Peter was
talking about Spirit baptism rather than water baptism. In the context,
Peter never uses the word "water", but it is strongly implied. He
commanded the Jews to, "be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the
remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
Peter told these Jews to be baptized for the remission of sins first,
and then they would receive the Holy Spirit. This shows that the baptism
Peter was referring to was something different than Spirit baptism. The
way to positively identify the kind of baptism that Peter was teaching
in Acts 2:38 is to identify what kind of baptism is "in the name of
Jesus Christ."

Are we baptized in the name of Jesus Christ in water or
the Spirit? Everyone understands that Jesus was referring to water
baptism when He commanded the apostles to, "Go therefore and make
disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father
and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all
things that I have commanded you..." (Matthew 28:19-20). When Jesus
commanded the apostles to baptize in water in the name of the Father,
Son, and Spirit, we should not be surprised to see Peter commanding
water baptism in the name of the Son.

In Acts 8, we are told of Philip teaching the Samaritans
about Jesus. In verse twelve, the Samaritans
were baptized when they believed what Philip taught. Later in the text
we can read, "Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that
Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them,
who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive
the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had
only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then laid they their
hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit" (Acts 8:14-17).
Notice why Peter and John prayed for the Samaritans to receive the Holy
Spirit. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus!
Baptism "in the name of the Lord" cannot be Spirit baptism, otherwise
the apostles would not have had to come to Samaria to lay their hands on
them so they could receive the Spirit! The only alternative is that
baptism "in the name of the Lord" is water baptism, and Peter taught
that we are to be baptized in the name of the Lord for the remission of
sins. In Acts 19, the apostle Paul met twelve men in Ephesus who had
only been baptized into John's baptism. He taught them about Jesus and
we are told, "When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of
the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit
came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied" (Acts
19:5-6).

Once again, we need to notice the order of events. The twelve
were first baptized "in the name of the Lord Jesus," and afterwards,
the apostle Paul laid his hands on them so they could receive the Holy
Spirit. If baptism "in the name of the Lord" is Spirit baptism, then why
did Paul have to lay his hands on them and give them the Spirit? The
claim that baptism "in the name of the Lord" is Spirit baptism is false.
Baptism for the remission of sins in the name of the Lord can only be
water baptism. Those who argue that it is Spirit baptism are refusing to
accept the plain simple words of an inspired apostle of Jesus Christ.


JustAChristian

 

[JustAChristian]

God's Plan For Salvation Includs Baptism For The Remission Of Sins.

God's Plan For Salvation Includs Baptism For The Remission Of Sins.

In His own words Jesus told His part, “Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give His life a ransom for many” (Matthew 20:28). He said, “Therefore doth the Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again. No one taketh it away from me, but I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment received I from my Father” (John 10:17-18).

Man’s part in this plan of salvation was simple. It included faith. Jesus said, “I am the resurrection, and the life; he that believeth on me, though he die, yet shall he live; and whosoever liveth and believeth on me shall never die. Believest thou this?” (John 11:25-26). So the plan included faith that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God. The apostle John said, “many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in His name” (John 20:30-31).

But it included more than faith alone on man’s part. This scheme of redemption included repentance. Repentance is a change of mind regarding sin with a view to amend one’s life. Jesus said, “I tell you Nay; but, except ye repent, ye shall all in like manner perish.” (Luke 13:3). Peter preached, “Repemt ye therefore, and turn againm, that your sins may be blotted out, that so there may come seasons of refreshing from the presence of the Lord” (Acts 3:19).

Yet it included more, Jesus said, “Every one therefore who shall confess me before men, Him will I also confess before My Father who is in Heaven” (Matthew 10:32). So Paul could teach, “For with the hearth man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation” (Romans 10:10). This grand plan of salvation included confession of Jesus. Paul is able to later encourage Timothy saying, “Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.” (1 Timothy 6:12).

But there was more. This scheme of redemption included water baptism. Jesus said to Nicodemus, “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God” (John 3:5). After His resurrection Jesus said, “Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that dis believeth shall be condemned” (Mark 16:15,16).

God plan had been completed. Man could now be saved from his sins through obedience to the Gospel (Romans 10:16; 1:16). God brought for the institution He had prepared from the beginning to help man live and work until he can receive Heaven (Ephesians 3:8-11). That is the church. God made it part of His plan. It work, organization, worship, and doctrines are all given in the New Testament. There is no greater plan than God’s plan for there is none greater than the God of Heaven.

JustAChristian

 

[Freak]

Re: Sorry For The Butt-in!

Re: Sorry For The Butt-in!

Originally posted by JustAChristian


Just have one question. Why did Paul and the other New Testament writers send us so many letters warning us not to be careless with out Christianity (1 Cor 10:12 et al) Likewise, Paul warned...

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Salvation is contengent is stedfastness. We can leave Christ or we would have not been warned.

The conditional nature of the assurance of salvation is clearly taught. If one is willing to hear Jesus and follow him (do what he says) one can have the assurance of salvation.

Rom. 8:38,39 -- "For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

According to this passage nothing can "separate us from the love of God." Thus, some have concluded that the child of God cannot be lost. Although not teaching this, the passage does teach a marvelous sense of security. This passage as well as the entire chapter of Rom. 8 has to do with the wonderful blessings to be had in Christ. Some of those blessings are: no condemnation in Christ (Rom. 8:1), freedom from the law of sin and death (Rom. 8:2), life and peace in Christ (Rom. 8:6), the indwelling of the Spirit (Rom. 8:9), the promise of the resurrection (Rom. 8:11), the privilege of calling God his Father (Rom. 8:15), the witness of the Holy Spirit with our spirit (Rom. 8:16), heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ (Rom. 8:17), the intercession of the Spirit (Rom. 8:26), the promise that all things work together for good to those who love God (Rom. 8:28), and the promise that nothing shall separate us from the love of God (Rom. 8:38,39).

From all of the blessings that a child of God can have, it is clear that one should be a child of God above everything else. The child of God can have the assurance that God is on his side if the child of God is careful to be on God's side. As Jude observes in Jude 1:21, we must keep ourselves in the love of God. When we keep ourselves in God's love, nothing can separate us from God's love.


JustAChristian :angel:

JustWorks-

God's Word declares:

Those He justified, He also glorified.

If you have been justified by faith God promises to glorify you. Looks like this is pretty secure to me.