Evangelion
New member
Agape, why did Peter call for water so that the people who had already received the Holy Spirit (Cornelius and his household) could now receive water baptism?
The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)
- Thread starter Freak
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JustAChristian
New member
Re: Re: Another Speculative But Short Statement by Agape!
Re: Re: Another Speculative But Short Statement by Agape!
Agape,
It is beyond me why you can not see the truth that is so vividly expressed in the lesson on Philip and the Ethiopean Eunuch in Acts 8. No lesson better expresses the need for faith and obedience to the will of God; the same faith and obedience that purifies the soul. I can only conclude that you are so "brainwashed" with your Tennessee Temple College doctrine boosted by "Sword Of The Lord" support, you wouldn't know truth if it came up a kissed you on the cheek! I worked with a guy like youi for fifteen years. He was just as stubborn as you, but the Pall Mall cigarettes got him. I don't know what will ever change your mind except judgement day!
JustAChristian.
26 ¶ But an angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza: the same is desert.
27 And he arose and went: and behold, a man of Ethiopia, a eunuch of great authority under Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was over all her treasure, who had come to Jerusalem to worship;
28 and he was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading the prophet Isaiah.
29 And the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30 And Philip ran to him, and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some one shall guide me? And he besought Philip to come up and sit with him.
32 Now the passage of the Scripture which he was reading was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; And as a lamb before his shearer is dumb, So he openeth not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: His generation who shall declare? For his life is taken from the earth.
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other?
35 And Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture, preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on the way, they came unto a certain water; and the eunuch saith, Behold, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they both went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.
39 And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip; and the eunuch saw him no more, for he went on his way rejoicing.
40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached the gospel to all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.
Re: Re: Another Speculative But Short Statement by Agape!
Originally posted by agape
No, I don't practice what you do. I guess you can't read.
Without any proof text whatsoever...only your erroneous PIs.
I'm very hard-headed when it comes to standing on the truth and accuracy of God's Word and not to your five-sense reasonings.
Their hearts were cleansed by their baptism with the holy spirit.
They purified themselves by doing the truth with a view toward loving their brethren and one another from their hearts because they were begotten, born again of God's Spirit which is the incorruptible seed of God. They were able to do this because of the salvation they received when they believed in Christ and received the gift of holy spirit. At the time of the New Birth, the love of God was shed abroad in their hearts and they walked in this love toward one another.
There goes the familiar "twisting of God's Word" again. After we are saved, born again and have received eternal life through our faith in Christ, we are to follow after the righteousness of God in us UNTO good works. Good works follow salvation...they do not get us salvation. Salvation comes through FAITH (ALONE...NO WORKS).
Therefore, let the Bible talk to you, JAC...
Ephesians 2:4-8:
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
And hath raised [past tense] [us] up together, and made [past tense] [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: [it is] the gift of God:
As a last admonition let me say: "...whatsoever things are TRUE....think on these things."
Agape,
It is beyond me why you can not see the truth that is so vividly expressed in the lesson on Philip and the Ethiopean Eunuch in Acts 8. No lesson better expresses the need for faith and obedience to the will of God; the same faith and obedience that purifies the soul. I can only conclude that you are so "brainwashed" with your Tennessee Temple College doctrine boosted by "Sword Of The Lord" support, you wouldn't know truth if it came up a kissed you on the cheek! I worked with a guy like youi for fifteen years. He was just as stubborn as you, but the Pall Mall cigarettes got him. I don't know what will ever change your mind except judgement day!
JustAChristian.
26 ¶ But an angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza: the same is desert.
27 And he arose and went: and behold, a man of Ethiopia, a eunuch of great authority under Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was over all her treasure, who had come to Jerusalem to worship;
28 and he was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading the prophet Isaiah.
29 And the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30 And Philip ran to him, and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some one shall guide me? And he besought Philip to come up and sit with him.
32 Now the passage of the Scripture which he was reading was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; And as a lamb before his shearer is dumb, So he openeth not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: His generation who shall declare? For his life is taken from the earth.
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other?
35 And Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture, preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on the way, they came unto a certain water; and the eunuch saith, Behold, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they both went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.
39 And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip; and the eunuch saw him no more, for he went on his way rejoicing.
40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached the gospel to all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.
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c.moore
New member
Quote kevin
But what you DON'T see is that we are not righteous if we believe in Jesus, yet do not keep His commandments! (1 John 2:4)
Then kevin ,what does this mean to you you forgot these scriptures sence we are not righteous unless we obey???
Ro:4:4: Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Ro:4:5: But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Ro:4:6: Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Ro:5:19: For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
peace
But what you DON'T see is that we are not righteous if we believe in Jesus, yet do not keep His commandments! (1 John 2:4)
Then kevin ,what does this mean to you you forgot these scriptures sence we are not righteous unless we obey???
Ro:4:4: Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Ro:4:5: But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Ro:4:6: Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Ro:5:19: For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
peace
Kevin
New member
c.moore,
This is speaking of the Law of Moses! You can't just grab a scripture and apply it to something that isn't even relevant! Do you not know that Paul is speaking to Jews about the futility of keeping the Law?
He who does the works of the Law (of Moses) is entitled to keep the whole Law, which has been done away with. We are justified by faith (not a dead faith) apart from the deeds of the Mosaic Law (Romans 3:28). This is what Paul is trying to tell them, that he who works (works of the law), the wages are counted as debt, but He who believes in Jesus through faith (alive faith... not dead faith), his faith is accounted as righteousness.
So, instead of addressing 1 John 2:4, you ignore it and pull out a section that isn't even talking about keeping the commandments of Christ and try to use it to say that we don't need to keep the commandments of Christ, which 1 John 2:4 says that we do!. Sad.
Anybody who reads 1 John 2:4 has to come to grips with either believing what it says, or not believing what it says. Just what do you think that verse means? Will people who are "liars, and the truth is not in them" go to heaven c.moore? Well?
You admitted that the people spoken of in Matt. 25: 41-46 were thrown into hell because of the lack of works. Would you say to Jesus that he needs to read Romans 4 about not doing the works? Would you?
Or what about when Jesus said:
John 15:10
10) IF you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
... would you say "No Lord, we don't have to keep your commandments, we just need to believe and do nothing!" I hope not.
Jesus also said:
John 14:23-24
23) Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
24) He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me."
Pretty simple. If you don't keep His commandments, you don't love Christ. You can't keep His commandments without doing something - WORKS. Again, those who don't do His commandments are liars, and the truth is not in them. People who are "liars, and the truth is not in them" won't be going to Heaven.
1 John 2:17
17) And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
Who will abide forever? Answer: He who DOES the will of God. How can you DO the will of God without DOING something, c.moore?
It just goes on and on, but you just won't listen. So what's next? Are you going to ignore what those verses say and try to find another area that is speaking about not keeping the works of a law that we are not even under anymore, or are you going to come to grips with these verses?
And are you going to answer my question as to whether or not you think Matt. 25: 31-32 is speaking of Judgement Day? Is it or isn't it?
This is speaking of the Law of Moses! You can't just grab a scripture and apply it to something that isn't even relevant! Do you not know that Paul is speaking to Jews about the futility of keeping the Law?
He who does the works of the Law (of Moses) is entitled to keep the whole Law, which has been done away with. We are justified by faith (not a dead faith) apart from the deeds of the Mosaic Law (Romans 3:28). This is what Paul is trying to tell them, that he who works (works of the law), the wages are counted as debt, but He who believes in Jesus through faith (alive faith... not dead faith), his faith is accounted as righteousness.
So, instead of addressing 1 John 2:4, you ignore it and pull out a section that isn't even talking about keeping the commandments of Christ and try to use it to say that we don't need to keep the commandments of Christ, which 1 John 2:4 says that we do!. Sad.
Anybody who reads 1 John 2:4 has to come to grips with either believing what it says, or not believing what it says. Just what do you think that verse means? Will people who are "liars, and the truth is not in them" go to heaven c.moore? Well?
You admitted that the people spoken of in Matt. 25: 41-46 were thrown into hell because of the lack of works. Would you say to Jesus that he needs to read Romans 4 about not doing the works? Would you?
Or what about when Jesus said:
John 15:10
10) IF you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
... would you say "No Lord, we don't have to keep your commandments, we just need to believe and do nothing!" I hope not.
Jesus also said:
John 14:23-24
23) Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
24) He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me."
Pretty simple. If you don't keep His commandments, you don't love Christ. You can't keep His commandments without doing something - WORKS. Again, those who don't do His commandments are liars, and the truth is not in them. People who are "liars, and the truth is not in them" won't be going to Heaven.
1 John 2:17
17) And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
Who will abide forever? Answer: He who DOES the will of God. How can you DO the will of God without DOING something, c.moore?
It just goes on and on, but you just won't listen. So what's next? Are you going to ignore what those verses say and try to find another area that is speaking about not keeping the works of a law that we are not even under anymore, or are you going to come to grips with these verses?
And are you going to answer my question as to whether or not you think Matt. 25: 31-32 is speaking of Judgement Day? Is it or isn't it?
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Evangelion
New member
No answer for my question yet, I see. My poor little question, sitting all alone there...
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c.moore
New member
Kevin
I believe we agree with the same understanding about keeping God commandments, but I do it because Jesus is IN me ,and Jesus knows how to keep all the laws , and commandments, and we are free alone through Jesus , and with Jesus.
You keep saying we have to do works, "but" try letting the Jesus in you do the works for you.
Be a tool for God and let God work with you instead of you breaking your head to do the works yourself.
Maybe I am misunderstanding you agin like I did with the preacher example to showed from servantofChrist.
I admit I screwed that up by thinking in the natural, he was meaning something else.
Thank any ways Kevin for straighting me out.
I am the first to admit when am wrong I am wrong, but when I am right like I know I am about this water baptism is not salvation I will reveal the best I can this is a lie from the devil.
Also the same about your works you keep explaining is we must do is a blinding lie from satan, and his religious demons.
You said:So, instead of addressing 1 John 2:4, you ignore it and pull out a section that isn't even talking about keeping the commandments of Christ and try to use it to say that we don't need to keep the commandments of Christ, which 1 John 2:4 says that we do!. Sad.
Quote c.moore
I am not saying we don`t need to keep His commandment, but don`t you think the Jesus in us does a better job or works of keeping commandments????????
If Jesus is really in you Kevin, you will want to do Jesus will,because HE is LOVE.
This is why God gave us really two commandment to live on, and it covers the rest praise God.
But the way you explain, or the way I see that you believe is like being in the army or marine`s and we are forced with our own self to obey, and work, and we MUST fight to qualify, and we MUST stay faithful with our own powers to the end.
That why I used the marrage example to see if we were on the right track, but it turn out you are working on your own to obey , and work.
Like I said I do for my wife because of one reason ,I love Her,and I love to be a blessing to my wife when I can but the thing that make me her man is because I accepted to marry her so she is instantly my wife at the time of marriage,so if the same by when we believe in Jesus,we marry Jesus and we are his children as soon as we accept, and I work and obey the Lord because I want to please Jesus my first love, and the grace about obeying ,and doing God commands is he help us because he is in us,and we are one with Him.
that why the same principles is my marraige we are one flesh as one with Jesus,praise God.
Of course if I beat up my wife , and cheat on my wife , and do evil things that doesn`t pleases her that shows I realy don`t care about her and I have no relationship with her so is of course by Jesus, but even though I do eveil to her as long as I don`t have a divorce I am still married to her, and as long as you Don´t divorce Jesus as Lord and savoir you are still in the book of life, and you are God baby trying to do the best ,even though we fail sometimes.
Is this how you believe also Kevin?
peace
I believe we agree with the same understanding about keeping God commandments, but I do it because Jesus is IN me ,and Jesus knows how to keep all the laws , and commandments, and we are free alone through Jesus , and with Jesus.
You keep saying we have to do works, "but" try letting the Jesus in you do the works for you.
Be a tool for God and let God work with you instead of you breaking your head to do the works yourself.
Maybe I am misunderstanding you agin like I did with the preacher example to showed from servantofChrist.
I admit I screwed that up by thinking in the natural, he was meaning something else.
Thank any ways Kevin for straighting me out.
I am the first to admit when am wrong I am wrong, but when I am right like I know I am about this water baptism is not salvation I will reveal the best I can this is a lie from the devil.
Also the same about your works you keep explaining is we must do is a blinding lie from satan, and his religious demons.
You said:So, instead of addressing 1 John 2:4, you ignore it and pull out a section that isn't even talking about keeping the commandments of Christ and try to use it to say that we don't need to keep the commandments of Christ, which 1 John 2:4 says that we do!. Sad.
Quote c.moore
I am not saying we don`t need to keep His commandment, but don`t you think the Jesus in us does a better job or works of keeping commandments????????
If Jesus is really in you Kevin, you will want to do Jesus will,because HE is LOVE.
This is why God gave us really two commandment to live on, and it covers the rest praise God.
But the way you explain, or the way I see that you believe is like being in the army or marine`s and we are forced with our own self to obey, and work, and we MUST fight to qualify, and we MUST stay faithful with our own powers to the end.
That why I used the marrage example to see if we were on the right track, but it turn out you are working on your own to obey , and work.
Like I said I do for my wife because of one reason ,I love Her,and I love to be a blessing to my wife when I can but the thing that make me her man is because I accepted to marry her so she is instantly my wife at the time of marriage,so if the same by when we believe in Jesus,we marry Jesus and we are his children as soon as we accept, and I work and obey the Lord because I want to please Jesus my first love, and the grace about obeying ,and doing God commands is he help us because he is in us,and we are one with Him.
that why the same principles is my marraige we are one flesh as one with Jesus,praise God.
Of course if I beat up my wife , and cheat on my wife , and do evil things that doesn`t pleases her that shows I realy don`t care about her and I have no relationship with her so is of course by Jesus, but even though I do eveil to her as long as I don`t have a divorce I am still married to her, and as long as you Don´t divorce Jesus as Lord and savoir you are still in the book of life, and you are God baby trying to do the best ,even though we fail sometimes.
Is this how you believe also Kevin?
peace
agape
New member
Peter did not call for water baptism at all. I already explained the whole caboodle to you and if you don't agree, fine, no sweat off my back.
The truth is that the Gentiles received the gift of holy spirit, were saved, born again of God's spirit and received eternal life. They spoke with tongues which was proof that they were born again of God's Spirit...and Peter remembered what Jesus Christ himself had told him.
Acts 1:5: "FOR JOHN TRULY BAPTIZED WITH WATER, BUT [CONTRAST] YE SHALL BE BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY GHOST [SPIRIT]..."
Hey...Evangelion...still waiting for you to show me why Peter would need to water baptize them if they had already received the fullness of God in Christ in them via the baptism with the holy spirit??
What could H20 possibly add??
agape
New member
Re: Re: Re: Another Speculative But Short Statement by Agape!
Re: Re: Re: Another Speculative But Short Statement by Agape!
It was the eunuch's decision to get dipped in H2O...not Philip's idea. Philip went along with the eunuch's need to want to be baptized in water. However, the euncuh was saved before this occurred. So simple to comprehend when you take out your pre-conceived wrongly taught doctrine by man and read the pure simple truth of God's Word.
Re: Re: Re: Another Speculative But Short Statement by Agape!
I do see the truth. It baffles me to no end that you can't see that God sent Philip to the eunuch who was trying so hard to undersand the scriptures. Philip preached Christ and when Christ is preached and believed, that person is baptized with the holy spirit, save, born again and has eternal life.
It was the eunuch's decision to get dipped in H2O...not Philip's idea. Philip went along with the eunuch's need to want to be baptized in water. However, the euncuh was saved before this occurred. So simple to comprehend when you take out your pre-conceived wrongly taught doctrine by man and read the pure simple truth of God's Word.
JustAChristian
New member
The Work Of the Holy Spirit Within The Gospel Of Christ.
The Work Of the Holy Spirit Within The Gospel Of Christ.
2 Corinthians 4:1-7
1Therefore seeing we have this ministry, even as we obtained mercy, we faint not:
2 but we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by the manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled in them that perish:
4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn upon them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake.
6 Seeing it is God, that said, Light shall shine out of darkness, who shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the exceeding greatness of the power may be of God, and not from ourselves;
How does the HolySpirit work within the Gospel, the Mystery from the ages? So much is misunderstood of the Holy Spirit and because of this, there is more attributed to Him that aught to be. Let me encourage you read the following outlined lesson by Mark Copeland for a better understanding of the Spirit's Work. Thanks.
http://www.bible.ca/eo/hs/hs_06.htm
JustAChristian
The Work Of the Holy Spirit Within The Gospel Of Christ.
2 Corinthians 4:1-7
1Therefore seeing we have this ministry, even as we obtained mercy, we faint not:
2 but we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by the manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled in them that perish:
4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn upon them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake.
6 Seeing it is God, that said, Light shall shine out of darkness, who shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the exceeding greatness of the power may be of God, and not from ourselves;
How does the HolySpirit work within the Gospel, the Mystery from the ages? So much is misunderstood of the Holy Spirit and because of this, there is more attributed to Him that aught to be. Let me encourage you read the following outlined lesson by Mark Copeland for a better understanding of the Spirit's Work. Thanks.
http://www.bible.ca/eo/hs/hs_06.htm
JustAChristian
JustAChristian
New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Another Speculative But Short Statement by Agape!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Another Speculative But Short Statement by Agape!
Agape,
When Jesus sent his apostles into all the world, he did not say anything about the Holy Spirit following them and baptizing the believers. Jesus only applied this baptism twice. The first manifestation was on the apostles at Pentecost and the second was at the household of Cornelius. No other time is the manisfestation is seen except by the laying on of the apostle's hands (Acts 8:14-22). The Holy Spirit is not a cleansing agent of the Lord. Cleansing comes by the blood of Christ (Acts 22:16; Rev. 1:5). This takes place in water baptism. Washing away of sins is so clearly shown that only a willful determination to not accept it will not believe it. Funny that you have biblical insight on several other points but just can't or want see this!!
Furthermore, what is your evidence that the eunuch was saved before he was baptized? Did he have faith? Where is this shown? Had he sown to the spirit? (Gal. 6:8). Salvation will only come after one has sown to the spirit. Where is this evident? You see? forgivness can come only when there is purification in faith and obedience (Acts 15:9; 1 Peter 1:22). The enunch had only heard the gospel and was not cleansed until he and Philip went both down into the water and the enuch was baptized. At that time only did he begin to sow to the spirit to reap eternal life.
JustAChristian
JustAChristian
Re: Re: Re: Re: Another Speculative But Short Statement by Agape!
Originally posted by agape
I do see the truth. It baffles me to no end that you can't see that God sent Philip to the eunuch who was trying so hard to undersand the scriptures. Philip preached Christ and when Christ is preached and believed, that person is baptized with the holy spirit, save, born again and has eternal life.
It was the eunuch's decision to get dipped in H2O...not Philip's idea. Philip went along with the eunuch's need to want to be baptized in water. However, the euncuh was saved before this occurred. So simple to comprehend when you take out your pre-conceived wrongly taught doctrine by man and read the pure simple truth of God's Word.
Agape,
When Jesus sent his apostles into all the world, he did not say anything about the Holy Spirit following them and baptizing the believers. Jesus only applied this baptism twice. The first manifestation was on the apostles at Pentecost and the second was at the household of Cornelius. No other time is the manisfestation is seen except by the laying on of the apostle's hands (Acts 8:14-22). The Holy Spirit is not a cleansing agent of the Lord. Cleansing comes by the blood of Christ (Acts 22:16; Rev. 1:5). This takes place in water baptism. Washing away of sins is so clearly shown that only a willful determination to not accept it will not believe it. Funny that you have biblical insight on several other points but just can't or want see this!!
Furthermore, what is your evidence that the eunuch was saved before he was baptized? Did he have faith? Where is this shown? Had he sown to the spirit? (Gal. 6:8). Salvation will only come after one has sown to the spirit. Where is this evident? You see? forgivness can come only when there is purification in faith and obedience (Acts 15:9; 1 Peter 1:22). The enunch had only heard the gospel and was not cleansed until he and Philip went both down into the water and the enuch was baptized. At that time only did he begin to sow to the spirit to reap eternal life.
JustAChristian
JustAChristian
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agape
New member
Re: The Work Of the Holy Spirit Within The Gospel Of Christ.
Re: The Work Of the Holy Spirit Within The Gospel Of Christ.
You do understand that Acts 2:38 is referring to spirit baptism and not water....right?
Acts 2:38,39:
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Peter told them to repent, and be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ. To repent means to confess Jesus Christ as your savior from sin. Once this is done, the person is instantaneously baptized with the holy spirit.
"and ye shall receive [lambano - into manifestation] the gift of holy spirit.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.
The promise = the gift of holy spirit. According to Acts 2:38, the twelve apostles were not the only ones to receive the gift on the day of Pentecost. The Judeans, who were at first accusative of the twelve and were in doubt as to what they heard and saw, after hearing Peter boldly preach concerning Christ's death and resurrection, they believed and were also baptized in the holy spirit.
There is no mention of "water baptism" throughout the entire chapter.
Re: The Work Of the Holy Spirit Within The Gospel Of Christ.
Quite the contrary, JAC. There is not enough attributed to God and what Jesus Christ fully accomplished for us through his death and resurrection. There is so much more to receiving the gift of holy spirit than most Christians know or understand because they have never been taught it. They have been taught the traditions of men, which water baptism, unfortuantely, is part of the man-made doctrines of today. I have already read Mark Copeland material and unfortunately he also is part of the man-made doctrines.
You do understand that Acts 2:38 is referring to spirit baptism and not water....right?
Acts 2:38,39:
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Peter told them to repent, and be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ. To repent means to confess Jesus Christ as your savior from sin. Once this is done, the person is instantaneously baptized with the holy spirit.
"and ye shall receive [lambano - into manifestation] the gift of holy spirit.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.
The promise = the gift of holy spirit. According to Acts 2:38, the twelve apostles were not the only ones to receive the gift on the day of Pentecost. The Judeans, who were at first accusative of the twelve and were in doubt as to what they heard and saw, after hearing Peter boldly preach concerning Christ's death and resurrection, they believed and were also baptized in the holy spirit.
There is no mention of "water baptism" throughout the entire chapter.
agape
New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Another Speculative But Short Statement by Agape!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Another Speculative But Short Statement by Agape!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Another Speculative But Short Statement by Agape!
I suggest you get a towel and dry yourself and the eunuch off and then read Acts 1 and 2 regarding "...BUT YE SHALL BE BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY GHOST...."
JustAChristian
New member
Re: Re: The Work Of the Holy Spirit Within The Gospel Of Christ.
Re: Re: The Work Of the Holy Spirit Within The Gospel Of Christ.
Agape asked me...
If I believed that I would not be responding to this thread. Jesus baptized with the Spirit twice; the apostles before they preached together on Pentecost, and the household of Cornelius. ALL FLESH was the promise in Joel's prophesy concerning the ourpouring of the Spirit. At that time there were two (flesh). The Jew and the Gentile were the two flesh. The apostles represented the Jewish and the household of Cornelius the Gentile flesh. No others were overwhelmed. If you would truly look into the scriptures instead of the "sword Of The Lord" from Murfreesboro, TN you would see that I am telling the truth.
Everyone who is immersed for the remission of sins receives the gift of the Holy Spirit which is the ernest of the Spirit...
2 Corinthians 5:5 Now he that wrought us for this very thing is God, who gave unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
The earnest of the Spirit assures our association with Jesus Christ and the forgivness of sins, and only comes from obedience of faith (Romans 1:5) and purification of the soul (1 Peter 1:22-23).
JustAChristian
Ephesians 1 :12-14...
12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ:
13 in whom ye also, having HEARD the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,--in whom, having also BELIEVED, ye were SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 which is an ERNEST of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God's own possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Re: Re: The Work Of the Holy Spirit Within The Gospel Of Christ.
Originally posted by agape
Quite the contrary, JAC. There is not enough attributed to God and what Jesus Christ fully accomplished for us through his death and resurrection. There is so much more to receiving the gift of holy spirit than most Christians know or understand because they have never been taught it. They have been taught the traditions of men, which water baptism, unfortuantely, is part of the man-made doctrines of today. I have already read Mark Copeland material and unfortunately he also is part of the man-made doctrines.
You do understand that Acts 2:38 is referring to spirit baptism and not water....right?
Acts 2:38,39:
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Peter told them to repent, and be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ. To repent means to confess Jesus Christ as your savior from sin. Once this is done, the person is instantaneously baptized with the holy spirit.
"and ye shall receive [lambano - into manifestation] the gift of holy spirit.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.
The promise = the gift of holy spirit. According to Acts 2:38, the twelve apostles were not the only ones to receive the gift on the day of Pentecost. The Judeans, who were at first accusative of the twelve and were in doubt as to what they heard and saw, after hearing Peter boldly preach concerning Christ's death and resurrection, they believed and were also baptized in the holy spirit.
There is no mention of "water baptism" throughout the entire chapter.
Agape asked me...
If I believed that I would not be responding to this thread. Jesus baptized with the Spirit twice; the apostles before they preached together on Pentecost, and the household of Cornelius. ALL FLESH was the promise in Joel's prophesy concerning the ourpouring of the Spirit. At that time there were two (flesh). The Jew and the Gentile were the two flesh. The apostles represented the Jewish and the household of Cornelius the Gentile flesh. No others were overwhelmed. If you would truly look into the scriptures instead of the "sword Of The Lord" from Murfreesboro, TN you would see that I am telling the truth.
Everyone who is immersed for the remission of sins receives the gift of the Holy Spirit which is the ernest of the Spirit...
2 Corinthians 5:5 Now he that wrought us for this very thing is God, who gave unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
The earnest of the Spirit assures our association with Jesus Christ and the forgivness of sins, and only comes from obedience of faith (Romans 1:5) and purification of the soul (1 Peter 1:22-23).
JustAChristian
Ephesians 1 :12-14...
12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ:
13 in whom ye also, having HEARD the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,--in whom, having also BELIEVED, ye were SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 which is an ERNEST of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God's own possession, unto the praise of his glory.
The Great Commission is for ALL nations...
The Great Commission is for ALL nations...
Hey Craig –
The “great commission” is found in Matthew 28:18f. This is the book of the Bible that comes BEFORE Luke, but AFTER Malachi. It is the FIRST book in what is called the New Testament. Jesus told His disciples to go/teach/baptize/ and observe. It is still great even if you can’t find it.
It is understood from other passages that they were baptizing “in the name” of Jesus which is the baptism given in Matthew 28 – which is IN WATER!! I see no examples in the NT of people being “baptized” with the word – I fail to see how they can “immerse” people in the word, but such are the “strains” of false doctrine.
Jesus told the disciples to BAPTIZE people everywhere into the name of the F/Son/HS. This is a WATER baptism –AND- this is called “baptism in the name of Jesus”. When any single disciple may have fully understood the import of Jesus’ statement that this water baptism was for ALL NATIONS does not change the import of what Jesus was saying. This water baptism was for ALL people !!!
It is past time for some answers Craig!!
The Great Commission is for ALL nations...
Hey Craig –
The “great commission” is found in Matthew 28:18f. This is the book of the Bible that comes BEFORE Luke, but AFTER Malachi. It is the FIRST book in what is called the New Testament. Jesus told His disciples to go/teach/baptize/ and observe. It is still great even if you can’t find it.
It is understood from other passages that they were baptizing “in the name” of Jesus which is the baptism given in Matthew 28 – which is IN WATER!! I see no examples in the NT of people being “baptized” with the word – I fail to see how they can “immerse” people in the word, but such are the “strains” of false doctrine.
Jesus told the disciples to BAPTIZE people everywhere into the name of the F/Son/HS. This is a WATER baptism –AND- this is called “baptism in the name of Jesus”. When any single disciple may have fully understood the import of Jesus’ statement that this water baptism was for ALL NATIONS does not change the import of what Jesus was saying. This water baptism was for ALL people !!!
Why do you want to exercise this “tunnel vision” Craig? Peter also said – “34 Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 but in every nation he that fears Him, and works righteousness, is acceptable to Him.” ASV Why did you choose to stop in the past? Update yourself!!
And so, the BAPTISM given by JESUS CHRIST is greater than the baptism of John !!! If not, WHY NOT??
It is past time for some answers Craig!!
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Just because some men call the four gospels the New Testament does not mean that they do in fact refer to the New Testament:
"Forwhere a testament is,there MUST ALSO OF NECESSITY be the DEATH of the testator.
"For a testament is of force AFTER MEN ARE DEAD;otherwise,it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth"(Heb.9:16,17).
In His grace,--Jerry
"Forwhere a testament is,there MUST ALSO OF NECESSITY be the DEATH of the testator.
"For a testament is of force AFTER MEN ARE DEAD;otherwise,it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth"(Heb.9:16,17).
In His grace,--Jerry
Kevin
New member
c.moore,
I wish we did agree, but we don't. I adamantly believe that keeping Christ's commandments is necessary for salvation. You do not share this belief, otherwise you couldn't possibly be in the faith "ONLY" saves crowd. We cannot keep Jesus's commandments without doing works. When one obey Christ's commandments, they are DOING something - WORKS.
Well of course Jesus knows how to do all that. But we are the ones who are commanded to keep His commandments, not Jesus. If if was Jesus who kept our commandments for us, then we could never lose our salvation, because He is perfect and would never fail to keep His commandments. The truth is, there are Biblically recorded instances of people who were in Christ that stopped keeping His commandements and were in clear danger of eternal punishment. We are the ones who keep His commandments, not Jesus.
I can go to God in prayer and ask Him to strengthen me, so that I'm less likely to stray, but God isn't going to "do" His own commandments for me. Again, if God kept his own commandments, it would be impossible to ever lose salvation, but we both know better than that.
I wish we did agree, but we don't. I adamantly believe that keeping Christ's commandments is necessary for salvation. You do not share this belief, otherwise you couldn't possibly be in the faith "ONLY" saves crowd. We cannot keep Jesus's commandments without doing works. When one obey Christ's commandments, they are DOING something - WORKS.
Well of course Jesus knows how to do all that. But we are the ones who are commanded to keep His commandments, not Jesus. If if was Jesus who kept our commandments for us, then we could never lose our salvation, because He is perfect and would never fail to keep His commandments. The truth is, there are Biblically recorded instances of people who were in Christ that stopped keeping His commandements and were in clear danger of eternal punishment. We are the ones who keep His commandments, not Jesus.
I can go to God in prayer and ask Him to strengthen me, so that I'm less likely to stray, but God isn't going to "do" His own commandments for me. Again, if God kept his own commandments, it would be impossible to ever lose salvation, but we both know better than that.
I am not saying we don`t need to keep His commandment, but don`t you think the Jesus in us does a better job or works of keeping commandments????????[/qoute]
When it comes to salvation, you certainly are saying that we don't need to keep His commandments. You say that faith "ONLY" saves. Keeping His commandments and faith are two different things that are meant to go hand in hand.
If you think keeping His commandments is necessary, what is it necessary for, if not salvation? 1 John 2:4 certainly makes keeping Jessus's commandments a salvation issue. People who are liars and do not have the truth in them will not be saved.
As I've said before, we can pray to God for strength and more faith, so that we can live the life of the straight and narrow, but God is not going to live the life of the straight and narrow for us.
As to why I do His commandments, I've already told you why: It's both fear and love.
See above.
The GC came AFTER the cross...!!!
The GC came AFTER the cross...!!!
Hey Craig -
Jesus was a JEW and as such limited the disciples to a “limited” commission in Matthew 10. The OLD covenant still being in effect (and still needing to be observed) limited the scope of who and where the disciples could go. BUT…
AFTER the death of Christ on the cross, and a NEW covenant having taken effect, Jesus had been given ALL authority, and He commissioned the disciples at that time (as in Matthew 28:18f) to go into ALL the world and baptize (water) into the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This was a NEW covenant, and NEW commission, and a NEW baptism taking effect.
I marvel that you cannot see everything that CHANGED AFTER the cross, other than your rambling that “the blood of Christ “is” the New testament” – whatever you mean by this. (I also marvel that you try to drag Matt. 10:5 to the other side of the cross! Poor context Craig – very poor!!)
Just by way of reminder, John prepared the way of the Lord. The Lord then “improved” on that which John had prepared. Thus the baptism given by Jesus – that is, into the name of the F/Son/HS – was “improved”!! I believe you would call it a “better witness”, although you may be having second thoughts on that now.
But all that happened to Paul was that the HS sent him to work with the Gentiles and Peter worked with the Jews. Same message – different people. BTW, this lack of any message/gospel difference is easily seen is studying what Luke has to say about throughout Acts. Luke almost exclusively uses “good tidings” to describe the gospel message taken throughout the world. Luke makes NO distinction in the message – this is a man-made concoction !!
You brought up 1 Corinthians 1:17 AGAIN without answering the questions that would help you see the truth. I guess when you decide to attempt to answer those questions, you may begin to see the truth. Such as…
WHY did Paul baptize the Corinthians in Acts 18 ???
And WHY did Paul baptize Gaius and Crispus???
And WHY did Paul baptize the household of Stephanus ???
And WHY did Paul CONTINUE to baptize – as in Acts 19 at Ephesus ???
Craig – once you find the guts to answer these questions, and stop giving “cut&paste” service to the truth, then you will know why you are wrong on 1 Cor. 1:17 !! But not until you face the truth !!
Water baptism is the means chosen by God through which man appropriates the salvation He offers to man by His grace. The New covenant made possible by the blood of Jesus Christ makes this appropriation possible!
The GC came AFTER the cross...!!!
Hey Craig -
This is more of the “tunnel vision” I told you that you had last post. You must look around and see what else what happening in CONTEXT. Update yourself !!
Jesus was a JEW and as such limited the disciples to a “limited” commission in Matthew 10. The OLD covenant still being in effect (and still needing to be observed) limited the scope of who and where the disciples could go. BUT…
AFTER the death of Christ on the cross, and a NEW covenant having taken effect, Jesus had been given ALL authority, and He commissioned the disciples at that time (as in Matthew 28:18f) to go into ALL the world and baptize (water) into the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This was a NEW covenant, and NEW commission, and a NEW baptism taking effect.
I marvel that you cannot see everything that CHANGED AFTER the cross, other than your rambling that “the blood of Christ “is” the New testament” – whatever you mean by this. (I also marvel that you try to drag Matt. 10:5 to the other side of the cross! Poor context Craig – very poor!!)
Just by way of reminder, John prepared the way of the Lord. The Lord then “improved” on that which John had prepared. Thus the baptism given by Jesus – that is, into the name of the F/Son/HS – was “improved”!! I believe you would call it a “better witness”, although you may be having second thoughts on that now.
I shot your spurious use of context for Matthew 10 above full of holes, therefore we know that Jesus AFTER the cross ,in Matthew 28:18f, sent His disciples into ALL the world – ALL nations. But if I were to concede that your sad use of Matthew 10 was correct, it would not prove that Paul took a different message to the Gentiles. This is assumed and always is in the dispy line of thinking.
But all that happened to Paul was that the HS sent him to work with the Gentiles and Peter worked with the Jews. Same message – different people. BTW, this lack of any message/gospel difference is easily seen is studying what Luke has to say about throughout Acts. Luke almost exclusively uses “good tidings” to describe the gospel message taken throughout the world. Luke makes NO distinction in the message – this is a man-made concoction !!
You brought up 1 Corinthians 1:17 AGAIN without answering the questions that would help you see the truth. I guess when you decide to attempt to answer those questions, you may begin to see the truth. Such as…
WHY did Paul baptize the Corinthians in Acts 18 ???
And WHY did Paul baptize Gaius and Crispus???
And WHY did Paul baptize the household of Stephanus ???
And WHY did Paul CONTINUE to baptize – as in Acts 19 at Ephesus ???
Craig – once you find the guts to answer these questions, and stop giving “cut&paste” service to the truth, then you will know why you are wrong on 1 Cor. 1:17 !! But not until you face the truth !!
Yep! And this is why the Jews did not receive a sign and why the gospel came to the Gentiles in “words that man’s wisdom does not teach”. Thus Paul’s teaching and practice of water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is not in conflict with what Pauls himself said! Did you have a point??
Water baptism is the means chosen by God through which man appropriates the salvation He offers to man by His grace. The New covenant made possible by the blood of Jesus Christ makes this appropriation possible!
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