The Berean
Well-known member
Well, just let me know who gets to sit nearer the head of the table when you two hammer it out. I'm fine anywhere, just so long as I'm at it.
Just don't hog all the (living) bread that Jesus passes out, ok?
ECT THE FOLLY OF PROTESTANT SECTARIANISM
- Thread starter Cruciform
- Start date
Just don't hog all the (living) bread that Jesus passes out, ok?
Just don't hog all the (living) bread that Jesus passes out, ok?
:chew: Mmpfh? I tried, but there was just more and more and more of the stuff.
The Berean
Well-known member
:chew: Mmpfh? I tried, but there was just more and more and more of the stuff.
Yeah, Jesus just rolls like that. Jesus is never fishy about it either. :chew:
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genuineoriginal
New member
Already shown. Are you blind. RCC doesn't have an authenticated Canon.
OT is about the witnessing of God from the Jews. Jews is the legitimate group for the OT Canon. They however abandoned Jesus, so Jesus authenticated Peter to form God's Church on earth. The current Catholic Church is keeping an authenticated NT Canon. Only authenticated Protestants are not having both a correct NT and a correct OT Canon. That's the proof.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
See post#2
Cruciform
New member
An odd claim on your part, since it was the Catholic Church which authoritatively defined the content of the biblical canon in the 4th century. This is a matter of demonstrable historical fact. Try again.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Like everything else in the RCC the supposed unity is a SHAM
You've got the pre-consular
the post-consular
the Homo wing
the anti celibates
the charismatics
the conservatives
the liberals
the women's equality crowd
the Erasmians
The list of diverse groupings is endless.
They SAY they are loyal to the Pope but nobody obeys him...in the matter of abortion and birth control.
You've got the pre-consular
the post-consular
the Homo wing
the anti celibates
the charismatics
the conservatives
the liberals
the women's equality crowd
the Erasmians
The list of diverse groupings is endless.
They SAY they are loyal to the Pope but nobody obeys him...in the matter of abortion and birth control.
Cruciform
New member
The formal teachings of the Catholic Church are one and unchanging. Try again.
Purchased any indulgences lately?
And everyone pays lip service only to them....it's a sham...try again
Cruciform
New member
"Knowledge" you could not possibly actually possess. In any case, your claims in Post #28 have been decisively answered.
Cruciform
New member
The "purchasing" of indulgences was a medieval abuse that was corrected at that time, and doesn't apply in our day. I would think you'd know that as a supposed former Catholic, but I've seen firsthand the wildly inaccurate statements you routinely make on this forum about Catholic teaching and practice---including the one I'm responding to here.
None the less, it was an official teaching of the Roman church during that period. I guess the formal teaches of the Roman church to change. From time to time.
How about relics? Have you bought any relics? Gone on a pilgrimage?
The Catholic Church also had a three other ways of raising revenue.
Relics: These were officially sanctioned by the Vatican. They were pieces of straw, hay, white feathers from a dove, pieces of the cross etc. that could be sold to people as the things that had been the nearest to Jesus on Earth. The money raised went straight to the church and to the Vatican. These holy relics were keenly sought after as the people saw their purchase as a way of pleasing God. It also showed that you had honoured Him by spending your money on relics associated with his son.
Indulgences: These were ‘certificates’ produced in bulk that had been pre-signed by the pope which pardoned a person’s sins and gave you access to heaven. Basically if you knew that you had sinned you would wait until a pardoner was in your region selling an indulgence and purchase one as the pope, being God’s representative on Earth, would forgive your sins and you would be pardoned. This industry was later expanded to allow people to buy an indulgence for a dead relative who might be in purgatory or Hell and relieve that relative of his sins. By doing this you would be seen by the Catholic Church of committing a Christian act and this would elevate your status in the eyes of God.
Pilgrimages: These were very much supported by the Catholic Church as a pilgrim would end up at a place of worship that was owned by the Catholic Church and money could be made by the sale of badges, holy water, certificates to prove you had been etc. and completed your journey.
SOURCE
Relics: These were officially sanctioned by the Vatican. They were pieces of straw, hay, white feathers from a dove, pieces of the cross etc. that could be sold to people as the things that had been the nearest to Jesus on Earth. The money raised went straight to the church and to the Vatican. These holy relics were keenly sought after as the people saw their purchase as a way of pleasing God. It also showed that you had honoured Him by spending your money on relics associated with his son.
Indulgences: These were ‘certificates’ produced in bulk that had been pre-signed by the pope which pardoned a person’s sins and gave you access to heaven. Basically if you knew that you had sinned you would wait until a pardoner was in your region selling an indulgence and purchase one as the pope, being God’s representative on Earth, would forgive your sins and you would be pardoned. This industry was later expanded to allow people to buy an indulgence for a dead relative who might be in purgatory or Hell and relieve that relative of his sins. By doing this you would be seen by the Catholic Church of committing a Christian act and this would elevate your status in the eyes of God.
Pilgrimages: These were very much supported by the Catholic Church as a pilgrim would end up at a place of worship that was owned by the Catholic Church and money could be made by the sale of badges, holy water, certificates to prove you had been etc. and completed your journey.
SOURCE
Cruciform
New member
Incorrect. It was an abuse of official Catholic teaching at that time. Get your facts straight.
Neither is a doctrinal obligation for Catholics, so your questions simply don't apply.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
genuineoriginal
New member
It is a demonstrable historical fact that the Biblical canon was already in existence before the self-appointed Church of Rome used the act of giving their approval for the existing canon as another of many attempts to usurp leadership over Christians.
The history of the RCC really bothers you, doesn't it. All of these things were sanctioned by the Vatican. The Pope had to sign the indulgences. You can call them an abuse if that makes you feel better but that does not change the fact that relics, indulgences and pilgrimages were all official teachings of the Vatican at the time. Given that the people of that time did not have your resources there was no way for them to say that an official teaching of the Vatican was an abuse of anything. The church spoke and they believed.
Cruciform
New member
No more than Protestant history "bothered" me when I was a Protestant.
Popes are not sinless, nor has the Catholic Church ever suggested otherwise.
They were not teachings at all, but rather practical disciplines that happened to be abused by some during the Late Renaissance Period. Your ignorance is showing once again.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+