I would take out that link if I could edit I din't include it when I copied it !!!
The earth is flat and we never went to the moon
- Thread starter DFT_Dave
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I've posted these videos before but due to the avalanche of flat earth craziness that has been posted here lately, I'm posting them again.
The guy in the videos is not nice to flat-earthers. In fact, he's down right insulting but he does actually make the arguments and he makes them extremely clearly and presents them in a manner that even a child can follow them and understand fully why flat-earthers who aren't convinced by them deserve to be insulted.
So don't whine about the insults, just pay attention to the arguments!
In the four videos he covers pretty well all of the flat-earther's main arguments. Any one of these videos should be all anyone needs to see in order to drop the flat-earth nonsense but he doesn't stop with one video, he just keeps power driving the flat-earth silliness into the ground until it gets almost tiresome.
One last thing. As I said, I've posted these before. To date, so far as I am aware, not one syllable of anything resembling a substantive response to any of the arguments presented in these videos has been offered on this thread or anywhere else on this web site and there certainly should have been if the proponents of the flat-earth model were as objectively searching for the truth as they claim to be. Either that or they should have acknowledged that they cannot offer any such substantive response and, being convinced that the earth isn't flat, allowed these videos to end the discussion altogether.
Count this as your 2nd chance....
https://youtu.be/JgY8zNZ35uw
https://youtu.be/TeMooNFtFJk
https://youtu.be/EJ0EKJWyl_g
https://youtu.be/1rmXP4Q2ZpI
The guy in the videos is not nice to flat-earthers. In fact, he's down right insulting but he does actually make the arguments and he makes them extremely clearly and presents them in a manner that even a child can follow them and understand fully why flat-earthers who aren't convinced by them deserve to be insulted.
So don't whine about the insults, just pay attention to the arguments!
In the four videos he covers pretty well all of the flat-earther's main arguments. Any one of these videos should be all anyone needs to see in order to drop the flat-earth nonsense but he doesn't stop with one video, he just keeps power driving the flat-earth silliness into the ground until it gets almost tiresome.
One last thing. As I said, I've posted these before. To date, so far as I am aware, not one syllable of anything resembling a substantive response to any of the arguments presented in these videos has been offered on this thread or anywhere else on this web site and there certainly should have been if the proponents of the flat-earth model were as objectively searching for the truth as they claim to be. Either that or they should have acknowledged that they cannot offer any such substantive response and, being convinced that the earth isn't flat, allowed these videos to end the discussion altogether.
Count this as your 2nd chance....
https://youtu.be/JgY8zNZ35uw
https://youtu.be/TeMooNFtFJk
https://youtu.be/EJ0EKJWyl_g
https://youtu.be/1rmXP4Q2ZpI
Yet here we are.
You believe, "There are no reasonable arguments for a flat Earth, Dave. It's a delusional conspiracy theory with no basis in reality whatsoever."
I certainly believe reasonable arguments have been made for flat earth, that does not mean the earth is flat, it means it's worth looking into. I don't consider myself delusional.
The sun appears to travel across the sky just as do the moon, stars, and clouds. Even the earth centered globe is motionless. Almost the whole history of the world is that of a motionless earth.
No physical experiment ever proved that the Earth actually is in motion
While most of us today assume that our brilliant scientific minds, space exploration programs, and high-tech telescopes and equipment have long since proven that the Earth orbits the sun, Mr Delano (The Principle Documentary)explains that no experimental evidence has ever been obtained that unequivocally proves this to be true. As historian Lincoln Barnett states in The Universe and Dr. Einstein, “We can’t feel our motion through space, nor has any physical experiment ever proved that the Earth actually is in motion.”
Airy’s Failure, Michelson-Morley, Sagnac Effect, Nordmeyer-Bucherer, and Trouton-Noble Experiments
"No experiment has proven the movement of the Earth and such a movement would be easily detectable with modern equipment. On the other hand, every experiment to detect the motion of the Earth has failed and that alone speaks volumes."
I hope you can accept these facts of experimental science. One would conclude that until NASA the spin and orbit of earth was theoretical, not experimental nor observable.
--Dave
There is no way on this forum that we can deal with all the arguments all at once. Let's stick to one argument at a time.
--Dave
We are here to examine arguments from both sides. We leave to each person to determine which ones they think are bad and which ones are not.
Glad you're back. This time around I'm taking your advice and I'm going to concentrate on written arguments and not just video. I will analyze the videos and pictures of coarse because visual evidence is the only way we can determine the nature of the world.
--Dave
Ok, I have viewed the first one and I will view all the Testing Flattards videos and respond to each one, one at a time.
I expect a response from you on last post on lack of testable movement of earth. I already know that does not mean the earth is flat but it is still the one main and modern argument that negates heliocentrism and is one of the main arguments that is a part of the flat earth cosmology.
--Dave
So what? There you go making the same fallacious argument that I've already pointed out as being fallacious. I've pointed it out again - now its your turn to repeat the argument a third time at which time I'll be angry and you'll still be unresponsive and unconvinced.
Abject, flat out stupidity on parade!
We know for an absolute fact that the Earth is no motionless for a whole host of reasons just one of which is something called parallax, which has been pointed out to you before and which you have ignored entirely, choosing instead to find new videos to post.
No experiment that has ever been designed to detect the motion of the Earth has ever failed at all. The Michelson-Morley experiment was not intended to detect the motion of the Earth per se, it was intended to detect an eather and its results were NOT zero, as you've likely been led to believe.
No Dave, I can't except them as facts because they are lies. I can't tell any more if you're being lied to or if you're the one doing the lying. That ought to tell you something.
Clete
Pick one. It'll be the first one your responded to that I can think of.
That's a crock. Why bother posting arguments that you don't believe are persuasive?
Oh! That's an idiotic argument for my side of the debate but it's an argument nonetheless so lets post it anyway!
Yeah right!
Sounds great to me. I'll take just about anything that is direct, substantive and reasonably brief.
The guy makes a lot of arguments. Don't respond to them all. Frankly, there shouldn't even be a response other than, "Oh! Okay. Fine then, the Earth isn't flat." I mean, the material he presents is more than merely arguments. He proves the point. I wasn't kidding about him pounding the idea that the Earth is flat into the ground. He smashes it to powder and then just keeps on pounding until there's just nothing left.
What I'd really be more interested in, is discussing what it is that you think is lacking. Just how do you justify remaining unconvinced? On what basis, philosophically, do you place the burden of proof so unreasonably high as to be literally unattainable? If those videos aren't sufficient to convince you what is there that possibly could?
Clete
Once again, God is the only One or thing that can move the established, fixed, set, immovable, never to be moved, fastened, on foundations WITH a Cornerstone earth. That's how God built the stationary earth. I don't know a lot about Wormwood but there are dark spheres or disc like heavenly bodies that we can't see. There are sveral other verses Where God alone moves the earth. IMO, we're not flying and spinning on a ball with made up gravity, dark matter, dark energy, (all required for the maths to work), "beg" bang, we came from monkeys by way of a single celled organism, "deep space" , travelling the stars, seeing other "planets" and the list goes on. It's like a sci-fi fantasy world that 99% of of the population can't get enough of. For me, it's much easier and more logica to trust the word of God, the evidence we have so far and our SENSES.
Isaiah 24:1 KJV - Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.
Isaiah 24:1 KJV - Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.
I meant "seeding" other plantets. Can't edit
A debate is where "opposing arguments" are put forward. Saying the arguments I put forward are "just lies", is not an argument.
The Michelson–Morley experiment was to demonstrate the motion of earth as it orbits the sun not to prove if aether existed. The aether was already believed to exist.
“The Michelson‐Morley experiment confronted scientists with an embarrassing alternative. On the one hand they could scrap the ether theory which had explained so many things about electricity, magnetism, and light. Or if they insisted on retaining the ether they had to abandon the still more venerable Copernican theory that the earth is in motion. To many physicists it seemed almost easier to believe that the earth stood still than that waves–light waves, electromagnetic waves-could exist without a medium to sustain them. --Historian, Lincoln Barnett, foreword by Albert Einstein
The theory of aether goes back to Newton.
--Dave
There are a number of factors in determining a cosmology. There is no such thing as a single decisive argument for any thing that is about the existence of God, creation vs evolution, time vs timelessness For God.
That does not mean there are unlimited arguments either. We can put the arguments into categories, as we will see in the videos you suggested.
I spent almost the whole day with the "maps" arguments. So I researched the mayor projection map types for their differences, strengths and weaknesses. The argument from distances is one flatards have to address.
I love this episode, "Why are we changing maps? (from The West Wing). It's funny but also true about mapping.
Debate drives me to do research from both sides of opposing propositions.
--Dave
Vedic astronomy was predicting eclipses perfectly for thousands of years, they assumed the earth is flat. I also heard someone read written commentary from men at the London Royal Astronomical Society from the 1800s whereby their calculations and conclusions and observations favored flat earth. I search Google with not much luck but I'll look for the video again. Who knows what secret information the vatican has as they've been looking up more than anybody for centuries. They have locked secure records from many different interests throughout ancient history until today. It's no secret that they do.
[h=3]Vedic Astronomy[/h]
[h=3]Vedic Astronomy[/h]
| The Vedas, in old Sanskrit language, are an accumulation of knowledge, over the past 4000-7000 years. They provide fascinating social, spiritual, and naked eye astronomical observations from Indian subcontinent for their period. Many hundreds of ‘Drishtrara’s or visionary composers (Rishi’s) have contributed to Vedas over many generations of time. Though much of the material has been lost, currently four Vedas and vedangas consisting of Brahmana’s, Aranayakas, Upanishads and sutras’ are available. The great epics of Ramayana and Mahabharata are intricately woven with Vedic naked eye astronomy based calendar. Vedic culture created an astronomical secular lunar / solar calendar of 28 star based day count, six seasons, four Ayana’s (Uttara, Pitru, Deva & Dakshina) based on Equinoxes/Solstices. For nearly 150-200 years, many European and Indian Indologists have tried to understand this old body of knowledge and comment up on the material. The opinions of these writers about Vedas vary from a profound body of knowledge to trivial and some times mischievous. This web site is dedicated to studying astronomical references contained in Veda Sanskrit material. The goal is to analyze the same using modern astronomical tools to arrive at time antiquity, uniqueness and a better understanding. The list of Articles are:1. Astronomy in Vedanga Jyotishya For those interested in Vedic Astronomy, a very old and significant Vedic work is Vedanga Jyotishya by Lagadha from circa 1400 BC. This article provides a graphic picture of material in Vedanga Jyotishya based on work by Kuppanna Sastry Humans have gazed at stars for many thousands of years. Different cultures, based on their own innovation have named visible stars and star groups by native proper names. In some cultures groups of stars in the sun-moon ecliptic plane were named as zodiacs. Many of these names have died out and are dying out due to slow tendency toward unilingual-unicultural pressures, while some other name systems just survive. This article deals with Star names from (Bharat) India. This system, which is more than 5000 years old, is based on well-developed naked eye astronomy and moon pointer calendar system from that period. The twenty-eight daily star names and six seasons are unique to India. The birthstar of many Indians, used even today, represent the moon pointed star name at the time of birth. (Unlike Western zodiacs which are sun pointed). In this article, the origins of the twenty-eight star names and their modern astronomical identity are analyzed, illustrated and tabulated, with references to their Vedic origins. The second article compares the astronomical identity proposed in first article with those indicated by R H Allen. R H Allen’s classical work is from end of 19th century and covers star name comparisons for many cultures including Chinese, Arabian, European and ‘Hindu’. While many astronomical identities between the two works with respect to Indian stars coincide, there are some significant differences also. These differences are explored. Mahabharata, by venerable Veda Vyasa, is an important epic from India. It is much larger than Homer’s Iliad. The traditional Indian ethos considers this to be a major historical event from a period nearly 5000-6000 years old. But like Homer’s Iliad (which is now considered historical based on evidence), doubts about Mahabharata’s historicity has been and is currently challenged by many. There are references to Mahabharata by Panini in circa 450 BC. The Mahabharata story is more than 100,000 verses in Sanskrit, in anushtap chandas prosody. It is rich with a large number of astronomical observations about planet positions, their retrograde motion, and eclipses in period approaching the Mahabharata war. In the first article, one unique statement from Mahabharata Bhishma Parva (Chapter) that ‘Two eclipses occurred in 13 days’ prior to war is analyzed. Can a solar-lunar eclipse pair occur in 13 days? Were these seen? In this modern computer era, we can use mathematical modeling, large and refined astronomical databases, and complex astronomical computer software to accurately back project all possible eclipses over the past 5000 years. Details of such a study is presented. The article concludes that naked eye visible solar-lunar eclipse pairs can occur in a short 332 hours occasionally, which is less than 14 days (336 hours is 14 days). These eclipses would occur through the transition of sunrise or sunset. Nearly 30 pairs of such eclipse pairs that were visible in Northern India during 700 BC to 3300 BC have been identified. In Rig Veda & Sankhyayana Brahmana, Atri Rishi has described a total solar eclipse that occurred three days before autumnal equinox. Is this information adequate to identify and retro date that eclipse? Famous Bal Gangadhar Tilak, in his book Orion describes unsuccessful efforts in late 1800’s to date Atri’s eclipse. This article revisits the issue of dating Atri’s solar eclipse in the present computer era with vastly superior mathematical models of heavenly body motion. |
| The Vedas, in old Sanskrit language, are an accumulation of knowledge, over the past 4000-7000 years. They provide fascinating social, spiritual, and naked eye astronomical observations from Indian subcontinent for their period. Many hundreds of ‘Drishtrara’s or visionary composers (Rishi’s) have contributed to Vedas over many generations of time. Though much of the material has been lost, currently four Vedas and vedangas consisting of Brahmana’s, Aranayakas, Upanishads and sutras’ are available. The great epics of Ramayana and Mahabharata are intricately woven with Vedic naked eye astronomy based calendar. Vedic culture created an astronomical secular lunar / solar calendar of 28 star based day count, six seasons, four Ayana’s (Uttara, Pitru, Deva & Dakshina) based on Equinoxes/Solstices. For nearly 150-200 years, many European and Indian Indologists have tried to understand this old body of knowledge and comment up on the material. The opinions of these writers about Vedas vary from a profound body of knowledge to trivial and some times mischievous. This web site is dedicated to studying astronomical references contained in Veda Sanskrit material. The goal is to analyze the same using modern astronomical tools to arrive at time antiquity, uniqueness and a better understanding. The list of Articles are:1. Astronomy in Vedanga Jyotishya For those interested in Vedic Astronomy, a very old and significant Vedic work is Vedanga Jyotishya by Lagadha from circa 1400 BC. This article provides a graphic picture of material in Vedanga Jyotishya based on work by Kuppanna Sastry Humans have gazed at stars for many thousands of years. Different cultures, based on their own innovation have named visible stars and star groups by native proper names. In some cultures groups of stars in the sun-moon ecliptic plane were named as zodiacs. Many of these names have died out and are dying out due to slow tendency toward unilingual-unicultural pressures, while some other name systems just survive. This article deals with Star names from (Bharat) India. This system, which is more than 5000 years old, is based on well-developed naked eye astronomy and moon pointer calendar system from that period. The twenty-eight daily star names and six seasons are unique to India. The birthstar of many Indians, used even today, represent the moon pointed star name at the time of birth. (Unlike Western zodiacs which are sun pointed). In this article, the origins of the twenty-eight star names and their modern astronomical identity are analyzed, illustrated and tabulated, with references to their Vedic origins. The second article compares the astronomical identity proposed in first article with those indicated by R H Allen. R H Allen’s classical work is from end of 19th century and covers star name comparisons for many cultures including Chinese, Arabian, European and ‘Hindu’. While many astronomical identities between the two works with respect to Indian stars coincide, there are some significant differences also. These differences are explored. Mahabharata, by venerable Veda Vyasa, is an important epic from India. It is much larger than Homer’s Iliad. The traditional Indian ethos considers this to be a major historical event from a period nearly 5000-6000 years old. But like Homer’s Iliad (which is now considered historical based on evidence), doubts about Mahabharata’s historicity has been and is currently challenged by many. There are references to Mahabharata by Panini in circa 450 BC. The Mahabharata story is more than 100,000 verses in Sanskrit, in anushtap chandas prosody. It is rich with a large number of astronomical observations about planet positions, their retrograde motion, and eclipses in period approaching the Mahabharata war. In the first article, one unique statement from Mahabharata Bhishma Parva (Chapter) that ‘Two eclipses occurred in 13 days’ prior to war is analyzed. Can a solar-lunar eclipse pair occur in 13 days? Were these seen? In this modern computer era, we can use mathematical modeling, large and refined astronomical databases, and complex astronomical computer software to accurately back project all possible eclipses over the past 5000 years. Details of such a study is presented. The article concludes that naked eye visible solar-lunar eclipse pairs can occur in a short 332 hours occasionally, which is less than 14 days (336 hours is 14 days). These eclipses would occur through the transition of sunrise or sunset. Nearly 30 pairs of such eclipse pairs that were visible in Northern India during 700 BC to 3300 BC have been identified. In Rig Veda & Sankhyayana Brahmana, Atri Rishi has described a total solar eclipse that occurred three days before autumnal equinox. Is this information adequate to identify and retro date that eclipse? Famous Bal Gangadhar Tilak, in his book Orion describes unsuccessful efforts in late 1800’s to date Atri’s eclipse. This article revisits the issue of dating Atri’s solar eclipse in the present computer era with vastly superior mathematical models of heavenly body motion. |
I tend to ignore what I consider untrue. Exactly what the globers are doing. The difference between me and them is that I lived and breathed on a flying spinning ball for nearly 50 years. I've heard all the Fake "evidence" for a globe and was taught it all through school and a full time year in college with Biology. They should be examining and comparing THEIR proofs to flat earth proof and evidence, and remove their preconceived notions. Yet they refuse to do that.
Step off the ball for a week and imagine flat earth and how everything works perfectly, even better and much simpler than the "Beg" Bang Hoax. Take your mind and visualizations OFF the "planet" you love so much for a week and step into flat earth. Consider it a vacation and a short adventure and you know you can always get back on the ball anytime, it will always be there for you.
Step off the ball for a week and imagine flat earth and how everything works perfectly, even better and much simpler than the "Beg" Bang Hoax. Take your mind and visualizations OFF the "planet" you love so much for a week and step into flat earth. Consider it a vacation and a short adventure and you know you can always get back on the ball anytime, it will always be there for you.
That was parody. You do it all the time.
We know that God created two great lights on the fourth day, the sun and moon and the stars. Where was the sun on days 1,2 and 3? This proves evolution and the "beg" bang wrong, IMO. This also means the moon gives off it's own light as the sun does. It's not all from a reflection of the other great light. I believe firmly that moon landings were a Hoax. If they lie about that then everything is up for grabs. Do you trust the word of God or the science? Doesn't it take a bigger leap of faith to believe the last 500 years of cosmology, which includes but is not limited to, big bangs, evolution, gravity, dark matter, dark energy. "deep space that never ends" (when God clearly speaks of the end of heaven above the earth), Other magical "forces", seeding other planets, fantasies and delusions of living in space and travelling the stars, parallel universes, multi-verses, a possibility of merging with the universe and transcending space and time. Those are all strong delusions, IMO. How many "theories" are required to make the math and calculations to work for a flying spinning ball? I suspect that I couldn't find a clear answer to that question just I can't find one definitive altitude required to see the "curvature" from NASA or anywhere else, but I know it'a substantially higher than ANY jet or plane flies.
Genesis 1:1-19 KJV -
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Genesis 1:1-19 KJV -
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
- Status