Wow!! An actual response without 7 youtube videos and 12 crappy memes.
Thank you!
While I disagree with you I do appreciate your actual response. :up:
The earth is flat and we never went to the moon--Part II
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Thank you!
While I disagree with you I do appreciate your actual response. :up:
I'm still pretty cool Knight, I hope, but all the mocking and such for believing scripture as written and thinking flat or geocentric earth is possible brings out the fighting side in me. The flatties get beat up here everyday and some of the images speak for themselves in the topic of "we never went the the moon" and FE observations.
I can debate this topic without tons of science and numbers that all originate from the globe model before the calculations even begin. I'm not looking for proof of a globe right now, so debating the globe proof is boring to me. Let's change the daily gang up beat downs for a day, to how this deception could take place to begin with perhaps. I'll be back around 5 pm or 6 pm in and out of TOL.
Dave,
Okay, so I've figured out a way that I should be able to physically measure the curvature of the Earth. I even found a perfect place to make the measurement!
There's just one problem!
I literally cannot find anyone who is willing to help me do it. Everyone I've asked thinks that I am a lunatic and literally laughs out loud. And I can't say that I blame them!
I wish that I could just do it myself but I can't see how I could do it because it requires taking measurements from several locations around a pond that is over a mile in length. It would require me to leave a very expensive telescope unattended while I walk back and forth to set up targets in various places and take photos of each one through the scope. That would be a whole lot of walking, not to mention inviting someone to steal my telescope.
If I ever find someone willing to help me, I'll do it but in the mean time I wanted you to know that the whole idea of a flat earth is so ludicrous as to make one look like a completely ridiculous, slobbering imbecile to the regular world for even desiring to make the measurement.
Clete
Okay, so I've figured out a way that I should be able to physically measure the curvature of the Earth. I even found a perfect place to make the measurement!
There's just one problem!
I literally cannot find anyone who is willing to help me do it. Everyone I've asked thinks that I am a lunatic and literally laughs out loud. And I can't say that I blame them!
I wish that I could just do it myself but I can't see how I could do it because it requires taking measurements from several locations around a pond that is over a mile in length. It would require me to leave a very expensive telescope unattended while I walk back and forth to set up targets in various places and take photos of each one through the scope. That would be a whole lot of walking, not to mention inviting someone to steal my telescope.
If I ever find someone willing to help me, I'll do it but in the mean time I wanted you to know that the whole idea of a flat earth is so ludicrous as to make one look like a completely ridiculous, slobbering imbecile to the regular world for even desiring to make the measurement.
Clete
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Bondi beach, Sydney Australia.
Note the water is easterly.
The shadows cast are northerly.
Sun is swinging in an arc south of the folks on the beach.
If this were a globe the shadows should be in the opposite direction.
I knew I saw a glitch in Stuu's video where the sun was replaced to a time when the sun set more southerly.
It was hooking right then the picture shook and the sun changed direction.
Another death knell for the globe.
Look.....
Note the water is easterly.
The shadows cast are northerly.
Sun is swinging in an arc south of the folks on the beach.
If this were a globe the shadows should be in the opposite direction.
I knew I saw a glitch in Stuu's video where the sun was replaced to a time when the sun set more southerly.
It was hooking right then the picture shook and the sun changed direction.
Another death knell for the globe.
Look.....
Hey Patrick what is the purpose of the globe earth cover-up?
After all every conspiracy has a purpose. They say 9/11 was an inside job and it was to convince the nation is was okay to go to war with Iraq and steal their oil. The Sandy Hook massacre (and other mass shootings) were faked or orchestrated to promote gun control. JFK was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald to cover-up that it was really the CIA that assassinated him. Etc., etc. etc.
If the earth were truly flat and not a sphere it would be bar far the largest cover-up in history involving the most willing participants by a 100-thousand-fold.
But what's the point in hiding that the earth is flat?? What is the pay-off?
After all every conspiracy has a purpose. They say 9/11 was an inside job and it was to convince the nation is was okay to go to war with Iraq and steal their oil. The Sandy Hook massacre (and other mass shootings) were faked or orchestrated to promote gun control. JFK was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald to cover-up that it was really the CIA that assassinated him. Etc., etc. etc.
If the earth were truly flat and not a sphere it would be bar far the largest cover-up in history involving the most willing participants by a 100-thousand-fold.
But what's the point in hiding that the earth is flat?? What is the pay-off?
Silent Hunter
Well-known member
It's a beautiful beach. Have you ever been there?
Actually, the water, as seen from the beach, is toward the south-south-east (170 degrees).
Well, that depends on what time of year/day one is viewing the shadows (when the video was made). It appears, from what I saw, the video was made somewhat before (or after) the winter solstice. The shadows can NEVER "point" north.
At 23 degrees, 26 minutes south, the Tropic of Capricorn is NORTH of Bondi Beach (just shy of 34 degrees south), so, at mid-winter (summer in the southern hemisphere), the winter solstice, the Sun would cross the zenith north of the meridian and shadows (at local noon) would appear to point south. This is evidenced in the video showing people going down the stairs and the shadows pointing toward the water (time 1:40).
See above.
I knew I saw a glitch in your knowledge of geography.
Yeah, I always hate it when the Sun goes from west to east instead of the normal east to west.
I was more impressed with the big-boobed-beach-babes than your misunderstanding of the shadows.
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1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
All you have to do is watch the shadows as it progresses from late morning to early afternoon.
It is apparent that the sun is not north travelling in a counter clockwise arc.
musterion
Well-known member
Dave was asked that at least once. No specific answer was forthcoming. Maybe PJ knows something about it.
Silent Hunter
Well-known member
You can't even get the north-south-east-west orientation of the beach right.
Give time indexes from the video for your assertion(s). I don't see it and I doubt anyone else does either.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
1. The globe promotes the idea that we are insignificant in the grand scheme of things
2. Without the globe, evolution cannot exist
3. The globe sets the stage for a future 'alien invasion' which is actually fallen angels coming to earth (review what Reagan had to say about an alien invasion).
In my opinion, flat earth promotes this idea:
Acts 17
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Except the globe model, the heliocentric model, though it's not as well known, shows that the earth is almost exactly at the center of the universe, which philosophically provides an argument for earth being at the center of God's attention.
Yeah I know. I couldn't get a thing out of Dave. I'm hoping for more from Patrick. I'm sure he is pouring over YouTube videos as we speak
Ask Mr. Religion
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Yeah I know. I couldn't get a thing out of Dave. I'm hoping for more from Patrick. I'm sure he is pouring over YouTube videos as we speak
Be it known to all that "Patrick" here refers to Patrick Jane (username), real name Mark, and not Ask Mr. Religion (real name Patrick).
And let me just short-circuit the inevitable "I'm sure he is pouring over links as we speak" that will come in my case.
AMR
Just FYI it's "poring" lolYeah I know. I couldn't get a thing out of Dave. I'm hoping for more from Patrick. I'm sure he is pouring over YouTube videos as we speak
I don't think there's necessarily a pay off per se, but a mechanism of control. A deception that started innocently enough when Erastothenes decided it was a ball 2100 years ago or so, by himself with a stick and a shadow. We've gone off of his assumption and his math until they changed it several times and changed it again recently. You know, to make it better. Fast forward to Copernicus and Pythagoras, and more globe based math with deep endless space. They were both Jesuits. Galileo and Newton continued the fallacy but none actually tried to deceive, Imo. BTW, Newton and Galileo, Jesuits. The Jesuits have controlled cosmology for a thousand years or more.
Nobody knew for sure and everything seemed to line up as a globe. Here comes Einstein and with his buddy, a Jesuit priest from Belgium, who first had the idea for the big bang convinced Einstein of the Big Bangeroo too. Even by this time nobody has been high enough to see the earth curvature. In 1931 a scientist, an associate of Einstein, Captain Picard saw the earth from above. They had ideas that the earth might not be a globe. Confirmed, possibly in the 30s 40s 50s or 60 & 61.
At this point, what do you do, announce to the world that the earth is flat? You think? Why would they tell us? Give some compelling reasons why they would or should tell us. Now, they fake the moon landings as everyone knows and LOSE every record and every bit of data. Amazing. No pictures that aren't altered, CGI, artist renderings or photo shopped. Wide angle lenses, fish eye lenses, controlled digital CGI fake footage from space.
The ISS is probably unmanned, satellites don't prove a globe. Nobody really needs to be lied to or deceived because we all believe the globe. Very few people have ever known and/or DO know the whole truth. Very few have seen from above and/or seen real actual images or footage. If one doesn't think the world is managed and controlled by the banking elite and secret societies who own all of media and entertainment, if one does not believe that their is a Luciferian agenda happening and has been happening since the garden and the flood, then they may be deceived.
There are many reasons to hide the truth from the world. My thoughts are that the powers that be are scared of the reaction, the unknown, the possible loss of the status quo. Free energy, resources, possible large swaths of habitable land, who knows how far it extends beyond the ice wall?
I can show my concept of the earth and the ice wall with frozen land beyond, or you can find it recent posts in the Biblical Flat Earth Thread. You knew you couldn't get away with no memes right, Knight? Lots of typos because it wouldn't let me fix them before I post. 9/11 was also for the heroin in Afghanistan, the launch of more surveillance, the everlasting perpetual "war on terror" and many other reasons. Back to FE, another reason is that nearly everybody would lose their faith and trust in science cosmology and teachings. The entire academic system and huge parts of the scientific community would look like dummies. :chuckle:
Historical cosmologies[edit]
Further information: Timeline of cosmology and Nicolaus Copernicus § Copernican system
|
| Name | Author and date | Classification | Remarks |
|---|---|---|---|
| Hindu cosmology | Rigveda (c. 1700–1100 BC) | Cyclical or oscillating, Infinite in time | One cycle of existence is around 311 trillion years and the life of one universe around 8 billion years. This Universal cycle is preceded by an infinite number of universes and to be followed by another infinite number of universes. Includes an infinite number of universes at one given time. |
| Jain cosmology | Jain Agamas (written around 500 AD as per the teachings of Mahavira599–527 BC) | Cyclical or oscillating, eternal and finite | Jain cosmology considers the loka, or universe, as an uncreated entity, existing since infinity, the shape of the universe as similar to a man standing with legs apart and arm resting on his waist. This Universe, according to Jainism, is broad at the top, narrow at the middle and once again becomes broad at the bottom. |
| Babylonian cosmology | Babylonian literature (c. 3000 BC) | Flat earth floating in infinite "waters of chaos" | The Earth and the Heavens form a unit within infinite "waters of chaos"; the earth is flat and circular, and a solid dome (the "firmament") keeps out the outer "chaos"-ocean. |
| Eleatic cosmology | Parmenides (c. 515 BC) | Finite and spherical in extent | The Universe is unchanging, uniform, perfect, necessary, timeless, and neither generated nor perishable. Void is impossible. Plurality and change are products of epistemic ignorance derived from sense experience. Temporal and spatial limits are arbitrary and relative to the Parmenidean whole. |
| Biblical cosmology | Genesis creation narrative | Earth floating in infinite "waters of chaos" | The Earth and the Heavens form a unit within infinite "waters of chaos"; the "firmament" keeps out the outer "chaos"-ocean. |
| Atomist universe | Anaxagoras (500–428 BC) & later Epicurus | Infinite in extent | The universe contains only two things: an infinite number of tiny seeds (atoms) and the void of infinite extent. All atoms are made of the same substance, but differ in size and shape. Objects are formed from atom aggregations and decay back into atoms. Incorporates Leucippus' principle of causality: "nothing happens at random; everything happens out of reason and necessity". The universe was not ruled by gods.[citation needed] |
| Pythagorean universe | Philolaus (d. 390 BC) | Existence of a "Central Fire" at the center of the Universe. | At the center of the Universe is a central fire, around which the Earth, Sun, Moon and planets revolve uniformly. The Sun revolves around the central fire once a year, the stars are immobile. The earth in its motion maintains the same hidden face towards the central fire, hence it is never seen. First known non-geocentric model of the Universe.[18] |
| De Mundo | Pseudo-Aristotle (d. 250 BC or between 350 and 200 BC) | The Universe then is a system made up of heaven and earth and the elements which are contained in them. | There are "five elements, situated in spheres in five regions, the less being in each case surrounded by the greater — namely, earth surrounded by water, water by air, air by fire, and fire by ether — make up the whole Universe."[19] |
| Stoic universe | Stoics (300 BC – 200 AD) | Island universe | The cosmos is finite and surrounded by an infinite void. It is in a state of flux, and pulsates in size and undergoes periodic upheavals and conflagrations. |
| Aristotelian universe | Aristotle (384–322 BC) | Geocentric, static, steady state, finite extent, infinite time | Spherical earth is surrounded by concentric celestial spheres. Universe exists unchanged throughout eternity. Contains a fifth element, called aether, that was added to the four classical elements. |
| Aristarchean universe | Aristarchus (circa 280 BC) | Heliocentric | Earth rotates daily on its axis and revolves annually about the sun in a circular orbit. Sphere of fixed stars is centered about the sun. |
| Ptolemaic model | Ptolemy (2nd century AD) | Geocentric (based on Aristotelian universe) | Universe orbits around a stationary Earth. Planets move in circular epicycles, each having a center that moved in a larger circular orbit (called an eccentric or a deferent) around a center-point near Earth. The use of equants added another level of complexity and allowed astronomers to predict the positions of the planets. The most successful universe model of all time, using the criterion of longevity. Almagest (the Great System). |
| Aryabhatan model | Aryabhata (499) | Geocentric or Heliocentric | The Earth rotates and the planets move in elliptical orbits around either the Earth or Sun; uncertain whether the model is geocentric or heliocentric due to planetary orbits given with respect to both the Earth and Sun. |
| Medieval universe | Medieval philosophers(500–1200) | Finite in time | A universe that is finite in time and has a beginning is proposed by the Christian philosopher John Philoponus, who argues against the ancient Greek notion of an infinite past. Logical arguments supporting a finite universe are developed by the early Muslim philosopher Alkindus, the Jewish philosopher Saadia Gaon, and the Muslim theologian Algazel. |
| Multiversal cosmology | Fakhr al-Din al-Razi(1149–1209) | Multiverse, multiple worlds and universes | There exists an infinite outer space beyond the known world, and God has the power to fill the vacuum with an infinite number of universes. |
| Maragha models | Maragha school (1259–1528) | Geocentric | Various modifications to Ptolemaic model and Aristotelian universe, including rejection of equant and eccentrics at Maragheh observatory, and introduction of Tusi-couple by Al-Tusi. Alternative models later proposed, including the first accurate lunar model by Ibn al-Shatir, a model rejecting stationary Earth in favour of Earth's rotation by Ali Kuşçu, and planetary model incorporating "circular inertia" by Al-Birjandi. |
| Nilakanthan model | Nilakantha Somayaji(1444–1544) | Geocentric and heliocentric | A universe in which the planets orbit the Sun, which orbits the Earth; similar to the later Tychonic system |
| Copernican universe | Nicolaus Copernicus(1473–1543) | Heliocentric with circular planetary orbits | First described in De revolutionibus orbium coelestium. |
| Tychonic system | Tycho Brahe (1546–1601) | Geocentric and Heliocentric | A universe in which the planets orbit the Sun and the Sun orbits the Earth, similar to the earlier Nilakanthan model. |
| Bruno's cosmology | Giordano Bruno (1548–1600) | Infinite extent, infinite time, homogeneous, isotropic, non-hierarchical | Rejects the idea of a hierarchical universe. Earth and Sun have no special properties in comparison with the other heavenly bodies. The void between the stars is filled with aether, and matter is composed of the same four elements (water, earth, fire, and air), and is atomistic, animistic and intelligent. |
| Keplerian | Johannes Kepler (1571–1630) | Heliocentric with elliptical planetary orbits | Kepler's discoveries, marrying mathematics and physics, provided the foundation for our present conception of the Solar system, but distant stars were still seen as objects in a thin, fixed celestial sphere. |
| Static Newtonian | Isaac Newton (1642–1727) | Static (evolving), steady state, infinite | Every particle in the universe attracts every other particle. Matter on the large scale is uniformly distributed. Gravitationally balanced but unstable. |
| Cartesian Vortexuniverse | René Descartes, 17th century | Static (evolving), steady state, infinite | System of huge swirling whirlpools of aethereal or fine matter produces what we would call gravitational effects. But his vacuum was not empty; all space was filled with matter. |
| Hierarchical universe | Immanuel Kant, Johann Lambert, 18th century | Static (evolving), steady state, infinite | Matter is clustered on ever larger scales of hierarchy. Matter is endlessly recycled. |
| Einstein Universe with a cosmological constant | Albert Einstein, 1917 | Static (nominally). Bounded (finite) | "Matter without motion". Contains uniformly distributed matter. Uniformly curved spherical space; based on Riemann's hypersphere. Curvature is set equal to Λ. In effect Λ is equivalent to a repulsive force which counteracts gravity. Unstable. |
| De Sitter universe | Willem de Sitter, 1917 | Expanding flat space.Steady state. Λ > 0 | "Motion without matter." Only apparently static. Based on Einstein's general relativity. Space expands with constant acceleration. Scale factorincreases exponentially (constant inflation). |
| MacMillan universe | William Duncan MacMillan1920s | Static and steady state | New matter is created from radiation; starlight perpetually recycled into new matter particles. |
| Friedmann universe, spherical space | Alexander Friedmann1922 | Spherical expanding space.k= +1 ; no Λ | Positive curvature. Curvature constant k = +1Expands then recollapses. Spatially closed (finite). |
| Friedmann universe, hyperbolic space | Alexander Friedmann, 1924 | Hyperbolic expanding space.k= -1 ; no Λ | Negative curvature. Said to be infinite (but ambiguous). Unbounded. Expands forever. |
| Dirac large numbers hypothesis | Paul Dirac 1930s | Expanding | Demands a large variation in G, which decreases with time. Gravity weakens as universe evolves. |
| Friedmann zero-curvature | Einstein and De Sitter, 1932 | Expanding flat spacek= 0 ; Λ = 0 Critical density | Curvature constant k = 0. Said to be infinite (but ambiguous). "Unbounded cosmos of limited extent". Expands forever. "Simplest" of all known universes. Named after but not considered by Friedmann. Has a deceleration term q =½, which means that its expansion rate slows down. |
| The original Big Bang(Friedmann-Lemaître) | Georges Lemaître 1927–29 | ExpansionΛ > 0 Λ > |Gravity| | Λ is positive and has a magnitude greater than gravity. Universe has initial high-density state ("primeval atom"). Followed by a two-stage expansion. Λ is used to destabilize the universe. (Lemaître is considered the father of the big bang model.) |
| Oscillating universe(Friedmann-Einstein) | Favored by Friedmann, 1920s | Expanding and contracting in cycles | Time is endless and beginningless; thus avoids the beginning-of-time paradox. Perpetual cycles of big bang followed by big crunch. (Einstein's first choice after he rejected his 1917 model.) |
| Eddington universe | Arthur Eddington 1930 | First static then expands | Static Einstein 1917 universe with its instability disturbed into expansion mode; with relentless matter dilution becomes a De Sitter universe. Λ dominates gravity. |
| Milne universe of kinematic relativity | Edward Milne, 1933, 1935;William H. McCrea, 1930s | Kinematic expansion without space expansion | Rejects general relativity and the expanding space paradigm. Gravity not included as initial assumption. Obeys cosmological principle and special relativity; consists of a finite spherical cloud of particles (or galaxies) that expands within an infinite and otherwise empty flat space. It has a center and a cosmic edge (surface of the particle cloud) that expands at light speed. Explanation of gravity was elaborate and unconvincing. |
| Friedmann–Lemaître–Robertson–Walker class of models | Howard Robertson, Arthur Walker, 1935 | Uniformly expanding | Class of universes that are homogeneous and isotropic. Spacetime separates into uniformly curved space and cosmic time common to all co-moving observers. The formulation system is now known as the FLRW or Robertson–Walker metrics of cosmic time and curved space. |
| Steady-stateexpanding | Hermann Bondi, Thomas Gold, 1948 | Expanding, steady state, infinite | Matter creation rate maintains constant density. Continuous creation out of nothing from nowhere. Exponential expansion. Deceleration term q = -1. |
| Steady-state expanding | Fred Hoyle 1948 | Expanding, steady state; but unstable | Matter creation rate maintains constant density. But since matter creation rate must be exactly balanced with the space expansion rate the system is unstable. |
| Ambiplasma | Hannes Alfvén 1965 Oskar Klein | Cellular universe, expanding by means of matter–antimatter annihilation | Based on the concept of plasma cosmology. The universe is viewed as "meta-galaxies" divided by double layers and thus a bubble-like nature. Other universes are formed from other bubbles. Ongoing cosmic matter-antimatter annihilations keep the bubbles separated and moving apart preventing them from interacting. |
| Brans–Dicke theory | Carl H. Brans, Robert H. Dicke | Expanding | Based on Mach's principle. G varies with time as universe expands. "But nobody is quite sure what Mach's principle actually means."[citation needed] |
| Cosmic inflation | Alan Guth 1980 | Big Bang modified to solve horizonand flatness problems | Based on the concept of hot inflation. The universe is viewed as a multiple quantum flux—hence its bubble-like nature. Other universes are formed from other bubbles. Ongoing cosmic expansion kept the bubbles separated and moving apart. |
| Eternal inflation(a multiple universe model) | Andreï Linde, 1983 | Big Bang with cosmic inflation | Multiverse based on the concept of cold inflation, in which inflationary events occur at random each with independent initial conditions; some expand into bubble universes supposedly like our entire cosmos. Bubbles nucleate in a spacetime foam. |
| Cyclic model | Paul Steinhardt; Neil Turok 2002 | Expanding and contracting in cycles; M-theory. | Two parallel orbifold planes or M-branes collide periodically in a higher-dimensional space. With quintessence or dark energy. |
| Cyclic model | Lauris Baum; Paul Frampton 2007 | Solution of Tolman's entropy problem | Phantom dark energy fragments universe into large number of disconnected patches. Our patch contracts containing only dark energy with zero entropy. |
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It sure does.
For example, some citation linking the bonkers claim to the copy-paste from the Holy Wikipedia.
Stuart
musterion
Well-known member
These two bring up God and Satan. Whenever that happens, salvation IS involved, if not explicitly, then implicitly. Can't cut this two ways, Patrick.
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